Problem breaks old computer, new computer breaks.

[pandemonium]

I highly recommend getting a UPS for stable power supply to your computer and other important electronics, however, that will require a grounded outlet. The house wiring is a big deal here, and unfortunately will need to be updated to include grounding before you can expect your hardware to sufficiently last.

 

[sm625]

It sounds like you might want to trade that desktop for a notebook.

 

[Nate_007]

Well my suggestion is bring your system to your friend's house and try it out. Just so we can quickly eliminate the probability of faulty hardware or peripherals. It may be hectic but at least we will know if its really link to your house electrical problem.

 

[XavierMace]

The house wiring is a big deal here, and unfortunately will need to be updated to include grounding before you can expect your hardware to sufficiently last.

I hear that pitch at BestBuy all the time from people trying to sell you a UPS. There's not a single house in my neighborhood with grounded outlets. I have yet to see an adverse effect on electronics life span. I've got a 12 year old PowerMac that still runs fine. I've got 3 servers running 24x7 in my house.

I am not saying dirty electricity has zero effect on electronics but you guys are making it sound like you can't have a computer without grounded outlets.

 

[Ketchup]

I hear that pitch at BestBuy all the time from people trying to sell you a UPS. There's not a single house in my neighborhood with grounded outlets. I have yet to see an adverse effect on electronics life span. I've got a 12 year old PowerMac that still runs fine. I've got 3 servers running 24x7 in my house.

I am not saying dirty electricity has zero effect on electronics but you guys are making it sound like you can't have a computer without grounded outlets.

I would wager to say that most of us have never had a computer on an un-grounded outlet. Considering the OP is having the same issue on a different computer, but at the same location, it seems to fit though.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

I hear that pitch at BestBuy all the time from people trying to sell you a UPS. There's not a single house in my neighborhood with grounded outlets. I have yet to see an adverse effect on electronics life span. I've got a 12 year old PowerMac that still runs fine. I've got 3 servers running 24x7 in my house.

I am not saying dirty electricity has zero effect on electronics but you guys are making it sound like you can't have a computer without grounded outlets.

Some countries spend a lot of time, care and money on their electricity supply system, and they have strong, robust regulations to ensure that these are met.

Unfortunately, some countries do the complete opposite. That is why in some countries, buildings collapse and 700+ people are killed, or it is not safe to drink the water etc.

If the electricity supply system is (insert suitable word which means terrible quality), then the grounding is especially important, if you want to use it to "clean up" and improve the safety, of your incoming electricity.

Maybe someone who works as an electrician or similar, can better explain the point I am trying to get across.

 

[jlee]

I would wager to say that most of us have never had a computer on an un-grounded outlet. Considering the OP is having the same issue on a different computer, but at the same location, it seems to fit though.

Well, XM has many. I grew up in an old house with two prong outlets. Seriously, nobody else here lived in a house that wasn't made in the last few decades? Or is nobody here a few decades old..? :hmm:

 

[pandemonium]

I hear that pitch at BestBuy all the time from people trying to sell you a UPS. There's not a single house in my neighborhood with grounded outlets. I have yet to see an adverse effect on electronics life span. I've got a 12 year old PowerMac that still runs fine. I've got 3 servers running 24x7 in my house.

I am not saying dirty electricity has zero effect on electronics but you guys are making it sound like you can't have a computer without grounded outlets.

I'm not advocating sales here, I'm trying to save this guy his hardware from failing. I have dirty electricity in my house and tons of quick power blips. The UPS has stabilized my computer beyond measures I can describe.

Consider yourself lucky. No, it's not needed, but then again, neither is insurance; until you need it.

 

[XavierMace]

Consider yourself lucky.

Consider my entire neighborhood lucky? I've got half a dozen friends, all gamer's, all in houses of the same general age with ungrounded outlets. Between us you are talking about a combined 100+ years of computer ownership. There's no shortage of houses all over the country with two prong outlets. I see no evidence of widespread issues caused by ungrounded outlets. In fact the other AT thread was the first result when I Googled "ungrounded computer".

Most of the lengthy threads on other forums on the subject point back to the same thread on Tom's Hardware which like all the other threads don't have any actual evidence of ungrounded outlets causing widespread computer failures. Once again, I'm not saying it can't cause problems, but the suggestion that I'm "lucky" for NOT having issues has no basis in reality. That implies I'm the exception rather than the general rule.

If 1 user in 10,000 has an issue because of a non-grounded outlet, that doesn't make the other 9,999 the lucky ones. That makes the one user the unlucky one. People have been using computers on ungrounded outlets for 30 years. I've got a friend who's got 15 systems of the P4/A64 era that all run at once for lan parties on ungrounded outlets and have been doing so for many years. Yeah, the lights flicker when the AC comes on. Yet the computers keep running fine. We've tripped the circuit breaker on more than one occasion, yet the computers come right back up.

It would be different if we were talking about me having one computer that didn't have a premature failure. But between myself and half a dozen close friends we are talking about probably 75 computers that have never had a premature failure. A 75-0 record either indicates I should be buying more lottery tickets or the power issue isn't as big as people are making it.

I think people are severely underestimating a computers ability to deal with power fluctuations. But more importantly there's a simple way to test the power fluctuation theory. Just about every BIOS on the planet shows you voltage readings. If it's having issues while web browsing, that indicates it's not dependent on a high load. Therefore he should be able to see fluctuations in the BIOS to see abnormal smaller spikes and it should lock up or reboot at some point.

I could argue the UPS stabilizing your system indicates you have a crappy power supply/motherboard that doesn't handle power spikes. Or that (based on the thread in your sig) that you are running a power supply too close to capacity which would make the system more sensitive to power fluctuations.

Is that the case? Maybe, maybe not. But one instance of a UPS improving system stability is no more conclusive then one case of not having issues with ungrounded power. You say you are trying to save his system, that's great, but at what cost? I don't know about where he lives, but here to get the house completely rewired to modern standards would be like $10k. Is it possible the electricity is the issue? Yes. But I'm certainly going to do far more testing before plopping down that kind of cash on a hunch.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

Deleted

 

[pandemonium]

Otiose rant omitted.

Not everyone has as clean power as your neighborhood does. Like I said, consider yourself lucky.

 

[adreamer]

I've lived in Japan..the land of 2 prong outlets and yes grounding will not affect your current..however I know since I have decent UPS that my current can go from 86V-105V in my house. (100V is supposed to be the norm) Yes..power there is crap in residential areas. They upgrade houses and don't touch the power because it is cheaper not to. Anyway, I know that despite having power supplies that are good from 100-220V.. having a fluctuating power source can create havoc on a computer or other electronics.

Everyone's house can be different but unless you are actually monitoring the power you really don't know what it is doing. It is also common that the more load you place on the circuit ..if it is a bad breaker..it will fluctuate even more.

One first hand experience I had was my PS3 would not even power up if the voltage on the circuit was below 90V. That particular room if I turned on a space heater I could watch the voltage drop from 102V to 86-92V..depending on the temperature and other things turned on.

The UPS I have keep a steady voltage and I have not had a problem since using them. It isn't much different than having a cheap PSU in your computer that doesn't supply a consistent voltage to your rig.