Probably gonna start a new routine.

[rasczak]

I've hit a plateau with SS, and want to change up my routine.

I want to hit specific parts now while maintaining the compound exercises in the regimen.

thoughts on this?

I want to keep squats at the core of my routine, I love them and i don;t want to give them up.

Mondays
Squats

3x5 80% 1RM (will probably figure out what my 1rm for squats is tomorrow but I am pretty sure i can do 315 1rm

I'm going to incorporate the following in a pyramid workout

DB lunges and leg extensions

1x10 75% 1rm
1x8 85% 1rm
1x6 90% 1rm
1x8 85% 1rm
1x10 75% 1rm

End with power cleans
Tuesdays

Deads

3x5 80% 1rm

Chest - i'll probably change this up weekly and do inclines/flat every other week.
1x10 75% 1rm
1x7 85% 1rm
1x5 90% 1rm
1x7 85% 1rm
1x10 75% 1rm

tri's

tricep extension

1x10 75% 1rm
1x8 85% 1rm
1x6 90% 1rm
1x8 85% 1rm
1x10 75% 1rm

Dips

3x10

pushups


Weds HIIT

Thurs

Squats - see above


back
Bent rows

1x10 75% 1rm
1x8 85% 1rm
1x6 90% 1rm
1x8 85% 1rm
1x10 75% 1rm

Lat pulldowns

3x10 @ 110 lbs

Pullups and Chin ups

2x10 of each

Preacher curls and barbell curls

I'll figure out the weight since I haven't worked biceps too much


End wth Power Cleans

5x5 @ 135lbs

Fridays

Deads

3x5 80% 1rm

OH Press

5x5 @ 85lbs

some other shoulder exercise suggestions would be much appreciated.

Ras

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I'm curious why you're interested in revolving a lot of your major exercises around the pyramid setup? I'm just wondering if there's an article or research behind your desire to do it like this.

 

[rasczak]

It's what I know basically. I don't have much more info on other routines, so i am going with what I know, but I'm going to go heavier since the last time i worked out I didn't know much about weightlifting back then, no to say i know a lot now but at least I've got a grasp on it.

What are your thoughts? I'm really looking for critiques, alternative methods. I am very open to anything that will build some definition. not necessarily mass, althought the way i've been eating i might as well head that way. hehe.

 

[KoolDrew]

You're hitting legs 4 times a week with a decent amount of volume. If you want to do a four day split I'd do an upper/lower split. Monday - Lower, Tuesday - Upper, Thursday - Lower, Friday - Upper. Still stick with compound movements and follow up with some isolation. IMO you don't need anymore than two movements per body part. For quads, start with squats in a lowish rep range (5-8) and follow with something like leg press, lunges, split squats or w/e for some higher rep quad work. For hamstrings, use RDL's as your main movement on one day and deadlifts on the other. Follow with leg curls for higher reps as isolation. Use the same idea for upper body.

Also, lose the whole pyramid scheme idea. Just choose a rep range and try getting stronger in that rep range.

 

[rasczak]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew
You're hitting legs 4 times a week with a decent amount of volume. If you want to do a four day split I'd do an upper/lower split. Monday - Lower, Tuesday - Upper, Thursday - Lower, Friday - Upper. Still stick with compound movements and follow up with some isolation. IMO you don't need anymore than two movements per body part. For quads, start with squats in a lowish rep range (5-8) and follow with something like leg press, lunges, split squats or w/e for some higher rep quad work. For hamstrings, use RDL's as your main movement on one day and deadlifts on the other. Follow with leg curls for higher reps as isolation. Use the same idea for upper body.

Also, lose the whole pyramid scheme idea. Just choose a rep range and try getting stronger in that rep range.

What's an RDL? And If I skip the pyramid and go say 6-8 reps per set, what should i set my weight at? 80%, 85%?


Take a look at this 5x6-8 reps maybe 80%?


Mon.

Squats
Lunges or Leg Press
Power Cleans

Tues

Bench (incline or flat)
Cable Flys
Pushups
OH Press
Back Flys to hit the rear delt.

Weds HIIT

Thurs

Hypers
Deads
Leg Curls
Calf Raises

Fri

Bent Rows
Shrugs
Lat Pulldowns
Preacher Curls


Thanks for the input.

 

[RagingBITCH]

RDL = Romanian Dead Lift, ie, stiff legged deadlift.

If you're bored of SS, try out Hypertrophy Strength Training. Full body 3x a week...I've definitely made progress using it.

 

[rasczak]

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
RDL = Romanian Dead Lift, ie, stiff legged deadlift.

If you're bored of SS, try out Hypertrophy Strength Training. Full body 3x a week...I've definitely made progress using it.

what kinda of gains did you make?

 

[KoolDrew]

What's an RDL?

Romanian Deadlift. Here's a video..
http://s230.photobucket.com/al...w&current=RDL185X5.flv

Keep back straight, buttt back, chest up, slight bend in the knee and let the bar slide down the thighs. Similiar to a deadlift, but not straight from the floor every rep. If done correctly, you should definitely feel it in your glutes and hamstrings. I always use RDL's as my main hamstring movement on days I do heavy squatting, since heavy squatting and deadlifting would be too much. On days I don't do heavy squatting, I'll do deadlifts and hit my quads using front squats.

And If I skip the pyramid and go say 6-8 reps per set, what should i set my weight at? 80%, 85%?

You're complicating things when you don't need to. Just lift heavy and try to increase weight. If you can easily do 3-4 sets at 8 reps, up the weight and try for 6-8. If you only get 6 reps, try for 8 next time. Up the weight when you reach that point. Start light since you're not used to the rep range.

Take a look at this 5x6-8 reps maybe 80%?


Mon.

Squats
Lunges or Leg Press
Power Cleans

Tues

Bench (incline or flat)
Cable Flys
Pushups
OH Press
Back Flys to hit the rear delt.

Weds HIIT

Thurs

Hypers
Deads
Leg Curls
Calf Raises

Fri

Bent Rows
Shrugs
Lat Pulldowns
Preacher Curls

I think it's best to hit everything at least twice a week (research has shown this is optimal as well given recovery is sufficient). So rather than splitting it up into quad dominant, pushing, ham dominant, pulling why not just do something like Lyle McDonals bulking routine. Also, if you liked SS and wanted to keep squats as the core of your routine Bill Starrs 5x5 may be a good choice. Either choice will allow you to hit certain muscle groups more often while allowing adequate recovery.

RDL = Romanian Dead Lift, ie, stiff legged deadlift.

Not exactly. SLDL's are typically performed with no knee bend, ass not stuck back and a larger range of motion typically with low back rounding. The weight is often not close to the body either. They are similiar, but two completely different movements.

Here's an illustration for comparison:
http://exrx.net/WeightExercise...raightLegDeadlift.html

As you can see it's very different than the video I linked to above.

 

[brikis98]

KoolDrew's post is pretty spot on.

Originally posted by: KoolDrew
Also, if you liked SS and wanted to keep squats as the core of your routine Bill Starrs 5x5 may be a good choice.

here is link to the Bill Starr 5x5 routine. Although not massively different than SS, it may just be different enough to help you break out of a stall.

I've been doing it for a few months now and it's pretty damn effective. The most important difference between this and SS isn't really the exercises - both programs are based around the squat and do roughly the same barbell exercises 3 times a week - but the linear progression of the program. The sets ramp up (ie, each set is heavier than the last) and each workout, you try to beat your 5RM from the previous. Try out the excel spreadsheet at the bottom of the webpage, enter some conservative numbers, and you'll have a rough idea of what 9 weeks on this program would look like.

 

[rasczak]

i've got problems today.

 

[rasczak]

Originally posted by: rasczak
HIT

How does this look?

Originally posted by: brikis98
KoolDrew's post is pretty spot on.

Originally posted by: KoolDrew
Also, if you liked SS and wanted to keep squats as the core of your routine Bill Starrs 5x5 may be a good choice.

here is link to the Bill Starr 5x5 routine. Although not massively different than SS, it may just be different enough to help you break out of a stall.

I've been doing it for a few months now and it's pretty damn effective. The most important difference between this and SS isn't really the exercises - both programs are based around the squat and do roughly the same barbell exercises 3 times a week - but the linear progression of the program. The sets ramp up (ie, each set is heavier than the last) and each workout, you try to beat your 5RM from the previous. Try out the excel spreadsheet at the bottom of the webpage, enter some conservative numbers, and you'll have a rough idea of what 9 weeks on this program would look like.

I had thought about the 5x5 as well. I'll look into it a bit more. What were your gains from the program?

 

[rasczak]

meh, double post

 

[rasczak]

egads triple post!

 

[KoolDrew]

I had thought about the 5x5 as well. I'll look into it a bit more. What were your gains from the program?

I followed the Bill Starr 5x5 routine a while back and saw very nice strength gains. I can't give you exact numbers since it was a while ago though. If you liked Starting Strength, you will definitely like Bill Starr's 5x5 and if you work hard at it, you will see very nice gains. Just download the spreadsheet on the web page and you can get an idea of the progression.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: rasczak
I had thought about the 5x5 as well. I'll look into it a bit more. What were your gains from the program?

when i started the program, i did a ~10 week bulk and saw roughly the following:

exercise: (start) --> (10th week)
body weight: 212 --> 225
squat: 285x5 --> 325x4
bench: 280x5 --> 315x4
deadlift: 355x5 --> 405x3
rows: 185x5 --> 225x5
incline bench: 235x5 --> 265x5 (I did this the first ~6 weeks, until my shoulder started to hurt)
press: 145x5 --> 160x5 (last ~4 weeks, mostly limited while my shoulder healed)

these were definitely the biggest gains I had seen in a long time. i ate quite a bit to help it along, but the strength and size increase were the best of any program i've tried.

the only down side is that at some point, I injured my lower back - i'm not sure if i actually injured it as a result of lifting, but all the exercises that use the lower back definitely aggravated it... as i wait for my back to heal, i'm now doing a modified 5x5 that places little to no stress on the lower back: front squats instead of back squats, pull-ups instead of rows, hypers instead of deadlifts.

at any rate, just be careful, focus on form first, and it's a great program

 

[rasczak]

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: rasczak
I had thought about the 5x5 as well. I'll look into it a bit more. What were your gains from the program?

when i started the program, i did a ~10 week bulk and saw roughly the following:

exercise: (start) --> (10th week)
body weight: 212 --> 225
squat: 285x5 --> 325x4
bench: 280x5 --> 315x4
deadlift: 355x5 --> 405x3
rows: 185x5 --> 225x5
incline bench: 235x5 --> 265x5 (I did this the first ~6 weeks, until my shoulder started to hurt)
press: 145x5 --> 160x5 (last ~4 weeks, mostly limited while my shoulder healed)

these were definitely the biggest gains I had seen in a long time. i ate quite a bit to help it along, but the strength and size increase were the best of any program i've tried.

the only down side is that at some point, I injured my lower back - i'm not sure if i actually injured it as a result of lifting, but all the exercises that use the lower back definitely aggravated it... as i wait for my back to heal, i'm now doing a modified 5x5 that places little to no stress on the lower back: front squats instead of back squats, pull-ups instead of rows, hypers instead of deadlifts.

at any rate, just be careful, focus on form first, and it's a great program

That's what scares me. I don't want to get heavier. I'm already 215 -220lbs and the weight is starting to get to my knees. That's why i'm a bit confused as to which way i should be going.

I do admit, seeing the gains youve made from the program does intrigue me, but one of the things my wife said when i first started doing this was don't get heavier lol.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: rasczak

That's what scares me. I don't want to get heavier. I'm already 215 -220lbs and the weight is starting to get to my knees. That's why i'm a bit confused as to which way i should be going.

I do admit, seeing the gains youve made from the program does intrigue me, but one of the things my wife said when i first started doing this was don't get heavier lol.

as I said, I ate a lot of food to gain that weight. 2-3 protein shakes a day, five protein heavy meals, several hundred calories more than i burned. i did this because my goal was to bulk and it worked wonderfully.

you can still get stronger without gaining weight as strength is a factor of much more than just muscle mass. if you track your diet on a website like fitday.com, you can make sure to not eat a calorie surplus, and your weight will definitely stay down. your progress may be slightly slower as a result, but that's the trade off.

after that 10 week bulk, i started a cut. i've been on it for ~5 weeks and my BW as of this morning is 209. i'm shooting to get under 200lbs, while continuing to do the 5x5 and minimizing any muscle/strength loss and even making some gains. So far, I've been pretty successful - my numbers during the cut:

Exercise: (5 weeks ago) --> (this week)
Body weight: 223 --> 209
Front squat: 185x5 --> 260x3
Bench: 295x5 --> 305x4
Weighted pull-ups: 30x5 --> 65x3
Press: 150x5 --> 165x5

As I said before, my lower back has forced a number of changes (back squat to front squat, rows to pull-ups, no deadlifts) but I've still made strength gains. My front squat has made a huge jump, although a good amount of that is learning the technique (I had never done them before). Bench was stalling pretty bad at the end of the bulk and even though I deloaded (hence the start at 295) it continues to do so. I'll need another deload cycle to push through this plateau. Pull-ups are progressing really well and I'm seeing huge gains in back size/strength. My shoulder is finally healed, so I'm finally able to start adding weight to the press and will try 170 this weekend.

Anyways, the whole point is you don't have to gain a lot of weight to make strength gains. You can even lose some weight (fat) and still see good progress. You should, however, make up your mind - decide whether you'll bulk, cut, or maintain - and use fitday.com to track your progress towards that goal.

 

[rasczak]

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: rasczak

That's what scares me. I don't want to get heavier. I'm already 215 -220lbs and the weight is starting to get to my knees. That's why i'm a bit confused as to which way i should be going.

I do admit, seeing the gains youve made from the program does intrigue me, but one of the things my wife said when i first started doing this was don't get heavier lol.

as I said, I ate a lot of food to gain that weight. 2-3 protein shakes a day, five protein heavy meals, several hundred calories more than i burned. i did this because my goal was to bulk and it worked wonderfully.

you can still get stronger without gaining weight as strength is a factor of much more than just muscle mass. if you track your diet on a website like fitday.com, you can make sure to not eat a calorie surplus, and your weight will definitely stay down. your progress may be slightly slower as a result, but that's the trade off.

after that 10 week bulk, i started a cut. i've been on it for ~5 weeks and my BW as of this morning is 209. i'm shooting to get under 200lbs, while continuing to do the 5x5 and minimizing any muscle/strength loss and even making some gains. So far, I've been pretty successful - my numbers during the cut:

Exercise: (5 weeks ago) --> (this week)
Body weight: 223 --> 209
Front squat: 185x5 --> 260x3
Bench: 295x5 --> 305x4
Weighted pull-ups: 30x5 --> 65x3
Press: 150x5 --> 165x5

As I said before, my lower back has forced a number of changes (back squat to front squat, rows to pull-ups, no deadlifts) but I've still made strength gains. My front squat has made a huge jump, although a good amount of that is learning the technique (I had never done them before). Bench was stalling pretty bad at the end of the bulk and even though I deloaded (hence the start at 295) it continues to do so. I'll need another deload cycle to push through this plateau. Pull-ups are progressing really well and I'm seeing huge gains in back size/strength. My shoulder is finally healed, so I'm finally able to start adding weight to the press and will try 170 this weekend.

Anyways, the whole point is you don't have to gain a lot of weight to make strength gains. You can even lose some weight (fat) and still see good progress. You should, however, make up your mind - decide whether you'll bulk, cut, or maintain - and use fitday.com to track your progress towards that goal.

Thanks for clearing up the confusion. I've decided I'm going to start cutting to trim more of the fat while I'm working out. I'll either start the 5x5 or this HIT and see where that can take me.

And as well, I wanna give props to you, KoolDrew, Koing, SC and many others who've helped me learn more about weight training and being patient with all of the ridiculous questions i put forth. Thanks guys! :beer::beer: all around

 

[KoolDrew]

Don't be surprised or discouraged if you can't make as rapid strength gains as brikis did though. Most people who have a bit of lifting experience will not gain much strength while on a cut, so often times the goal just becomes to maintain the weight on the bar to prevent LBM loss.

If you don't have much lifting experience besides SS you will likely make strength gains, but not as much as you would if you were in a calorie surplus.