Pro Photoshop computer build

[LarryK]

Will be 100% Photoshop and illustrator work. Goal is to build a system that can handle large file manipulation with ease. Also would like to set it up with 2 hard rives so that I can auto back up files when I save (this I don?t know how to do yet). Question would SATA hard drives make much a difference in the performance of Photoshop besides save time or? I am kind in the dark how hard rives can help boost performance of a application like Photoshop (help really needed here). Budget is $1500 to $2000 but would like to come in under budget if the performance is minimal gains for more money. This is what I got so far. No OCing of any kind. No Monitor.

Case: Antec Sonata II

Motherboard: Asus A8N5X

Hard drive: Western Digital Cravior 80GB ATA (2)

Video: 6600GT XFX (is this to good for what i want to do?)

Ram: A-DATA Vitesta 2GB (2 X 1GB) (2)

CPU: AMD 64 X2 3800+

OS: XP Professional X64

 

[MrX8503]

i would get a raptor.

 

[Ricemarine]

1. Link doesn't work.
2. No monitor needed right?
3. If these files are very important, I suggest you invest in a dfi expert motherboard, since it has raid 5, which is very good in redundancy and space (raid 5 requires 3+ drives, takes 1 hard drives space, so an example would be 3 250 GB HDD's, you'd get 500 GB of space with redundancy, in case one hard drive ever fails).
4. Get SATA, preferably 250 GB drives (at around $90 a piece).
5. Get a 6800gs.
6. Drop the Antec Sonata II, buy a different PSU, like a Seasonic S12 500w, Antec NeoHE 500w, etc.
7. Get G.Skill DDR400 or DDR500 (depends, DDR500 if you're overclocking) 2X1GB kit.
8. Don't get Windows X64, the many missing drivers just doesn't make it worthwhile (I have it...)

 

[LarryK]

sweet thanks Ricemarine does ram heavly effected the preformence of photoshop? or should i be looking at CPU? the drivers i would be missing are with the new hardware or stuff like flash drives and printers stuff like that?

 

[HybridSquirrel]

get what you think is right. x64 isnt bad for a Full time photoshop(i have it also) drivers can be a pain but they will get better

 

[Ricemarine]

Originally posted by: LarryK
sweet thanks Ricemarine does ram heavly effected the preformence of photoshop? or should i be looking at CPU? the drivers i would be missing are with the new hardware or stuff like flash drives and printers stuff like that?

It probably would since it involves large files... 2 GB of ram should be plenty. As for cpu, you can keep the X2 3800+ as well. As for the missing drivers, it could be anything. For me, I can't use my webcam, and there are no mouseware drivers for logitech mice (even though you don't need them). Printers, not sure... But it's best to stick with 32-bit. No point really in 64 bit.

 

[LarryK]

this is for my art professor Files are high resolution large enought to print out 30" 44" inch with out any image Degradation lots of layers as well. i will talk to him tommorow at that time i will ask him how big his files are. but i don't think he knows much about computers so drivers could be a realy problem like you said he does have a profestional printer that would suck if it had not drivers but i gess he could just transfer the file then print it off on a dumbie computer wow thats complex

 

[HybridSquirrel]

larry k i can hook you up with windows xp pro. 32 bit if your looking for it. i second staying at 32 bit just because of lack of support for x64

 

[Ricemarine]

A quick list I can make would be...

Coolermaster Centurion 530 (or Antec SLK 3000b) $50 zone
2X1 GB G.Skill DDR400 ram $180 ish
AMD X2 3800+ $300
Antec NeoHE 500w $100
DFI Expert mobo $170 <---- RAID 5 is your friend. Otherwise you'd be spending $175+ on a raid 5 card.
250 GB hard drives ~$90 a piece
eVGA 6800gs $180
Nec ND-3550 DVD burner ~$40
Floppy drive $8
Windows XP Pro 32 bit $~80-$120

 

[LarryK]

agreed tossing another 1GB wouldn't hurt would it or that just over kill?

thats for offer Hybrid Squirrel but would be threw his money so probly will not be for a few weeks or months or never hehe

 

[Ricemarine]

Originally posted by: LarryK
agreed tossing another 1GB wouldn't hurt would it or that just over kill?

3 GB is overkill.

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: LarryK
this is for my art professor Files are high resolution large enought to print out 30" 44" inch with out any image Degradation lots of layers as well.

30"x44"@48-bit colour @ 300dpi = 680 MB => get all the RAM and HD space + RAID that you can afford, under XP-64.

 

[Tostada]

Holy crap! Whatever you do, don't listen to Ricemarine.

RAID5 is pretty much ridiculous. You should just get good hard drives, and backup stuff to a different drive and store it on a DVD-R now and then. Now, if you have over 200GB of stuff that you need to keep a constantly current backup of, then get the RAID5, but for regular Photoshop work, just backup your projects like a normal person.

Just use common sense. Getting an overclocker SLI board that costs $194 is dumb.

A 500W PSU is overkill for a system without SLI. And you can get better PSUs than Antec for $100.

There's really no need for a 6600GT or a 6600GS if you're not gaming. Those are gaming cards. You could get something like a $94 Radeon X1300 with dual DVI out that still has OK gaming for if you ever upgrade to multiple high-end monitors, but there's just no reason to get something loud and hot.


Some things that would help:

- What monitor(s) do you already have?

- What filesize are we actually talking about? When you say 44" printout, that doesn't really mean too much. You could mean 30"x44" 48-bit color 150 DPI, which would be 170MB per layer. At that point you may want two good drives in RAID0 and a third one for temporary backup, and you would actually benefit from more than 2GB of RAM.

- How much do you care about noise? Is it more important to you to have crazy speed? With that kind of budget, you could get a pair of Raptor 150s, but the accessing is pretty loud and they have more of a whine than other drives.

- How much of a priority are your backups, and how big are the files you're backing up? Are we talking a couple 500MB projects a week, or something totally ridiculous?

 

[akugami]

The only thing I can comment on is that as far as video cards go, look for something with dual link DVI in case you ever need to drive a very large monitor. I'm not sure what Matrox is offering but they have some of the best video cards for 2D.

Hard drives are a must if you're going to be running very large image files. Monster files like what Madwand1 is theorizing would do well with a RAID. I'd recommend Seagate HD's for the longer warranty. Not going to make a long post about different RAID options. Anandtech has a decent article explaining what the different RAID options mean and what they can do for you. I provided the link to the AT article below.

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=1491&p=1

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: akugami
The only thing I can comment on is that as far as video cards go, look for something with dual link DVI in case you ever need to drive a very large monitor. I'm not sure what Matrox is offering but they have some of the best video cards for 2D.

Do you think that's really reasonable to suggest he upgrades the video card just in case he later decides to get a $2,500 LCD?

What card would you suggest? A $600 dual link Matrox Parhelia? A $600 dual link FireGL? A $600 Quadro?

I think there are some $200 Radeon 9600 Pros that support dual link, but those are AGP.

Dell says their dual link 30" screen works on the XPS 400, which you can get with a card as cheap as the X300 SE, which is only a $50 card, but ATIs specs specifically say the X300s max resolution is 2048x1536. Are there some cheap dual-link cards out there? Even the 7800GTX cards that I look up only say they go up to 2048x1536. Does Dell have some special OEM stuff?

ATI's pages say that the X1600 series has dual link DVI, but I think it also has to be specifically supported on the actual card, and I just don't see any X1600s that specify. That would really be nice to know, because for $125 the X1600Pro is a decent card, even though it's only 128-bit so most people would still prefer the GF6800XT for the money.

 

[LarryK]

sweet thaks all! i apologies for not haveing the facts on the size of the files. So ram is not the issue manipulate large files i sould be looking at hard drive preformence . basicly i just want to get rid of that delay you some times get when say rotating a file andor..croping one.

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: LarryK
sweet thaks all! i apologies for not haveing the facts on the size of the files. So ram is not the issue manipulate large files i sould be looking at hard drive preformence . basicly i just want to get rid of that delay you some times get when say rotating a file andor..croping one.

Actually, more RAM would help that problem quite a bit (depending on the specifics ... it's not like you even said what system you're talking about).

 

[HO]

You know, these PS workstation threads pop up every other week or so. There really should be a sticky or FAQ to address this because of all the misinformation floating around.

I use PS professionally and I have kept abreast of the technologies that most benefit the PS user. For BEST performance, the pro's baseline system will have these components:

1) Dual Opteron board (can be populated with 2 reasonably fast Single core Optys (~248s) and will still outperform X2 machines)

2) At least 2 hard drives, preferably 3. Raid is used by some for PS Scratch disk but not needed if options 3 and 4 are employed, especially on a baseline machine. Use a small HD for OS and apps, a 4-500GB HD for storage, and something ~120-200GB for PS Scratch and Bkups.

3) 6GB RAM is the sweet spot right now. For those who think anything over 2GB is overkill for a PS machine, STFU and read this.

4) XP 64, to take advantage of the RAM caching feature mentioned in the linked article.

5) A competent 2D graphics card. I use a Matrox P650 (PCIe, 128MB)--a good blend of price/performance.

If cost is a concern (I know it always is around here), the machine can be built with a single processor and less RAM. I would still go with no less than 4GB of RAM, however, and employ the /3GB switch (assumes XP32). CS2 will use an extra 1GB of RAM in this configuration.

Remember, the scalability of the Opteron systems is amazing. In the future, 2 DUAL CORES and a boatload of RAM can be added for a very serviceable, but not state of the art, Quad system.

More discussion.

PS Benchmark

 

[kpb]

Gotta agree with HO. From what little info we've gotten about the size of documents he'll be working with it's quite possible he'll be dealing with several hundred mb files which will eat ram for lunch. A dual opteron is the best way to get lots of memory and you will want window x64 but you may need window xp 32 bit version too if you have a scanner or other device that doesn't have 64 bit drivers yet. If on a budget you can get the board, a single single core processor and 2 1gb sticks. Then you can add a second processor and 2 more 1gb sticks later or even go quad with 2 dual cores. Would probably have a max 16gb of ram with 8 2gb sticks in most dual processor boards.

There are really 3 main bottle necks in photoshop. Which one is hitting you depends on alot of factors.

1) Processor. Dual core dual processor should chew threw most things pretty well even dual processor single core is gonna do pretty well here.

2) Ram. Depends largely on the size of the file but depending on what your doing photoshop may want anywhere from 4 to 10 times the size of the file in ram to work totally from ram. Swapping to disk for actually doing it's operation is a huge slow down and should be avoided if at all possible.

3) HD. Opening and saving files obviously but also for scratch disk if 2 is not sufficient.

 

[bamacre]

LarryK,

I would listen to Ho and kpb here. However, if there is a budget for this system, post it here, it'll be helpful.

 

[poisonthewell]

HO, nice post . . . of all the suggestions in these "I wanna build a photo editing machine" threads in GH the last few months yours is the most coherent and has other links to back-up your suggestions.

 

[LarryK]

budget is 1500 to 2000 which from the looks of it is plenty to work with. so i should run RAID 0 with a 3rd large hard driver for back up.. sence the motherboard limitation is 4GB run 4GB with windows 64 bit and i should do pritty good?

this is what i got in mind.

 

[HO]

Originally posted by: LarryK
budget is 1500 to 2000 which from the looks of it is plenty to work with. so i should run RAID 0 with a 3rd large hard driver for back up.. sence the motherboard limitation is 4GB run 4GB with windows 64 bit and i should do pritty good?

No. I don't think you read my post. If you did, re-read it. Skip the RAID and go with an Opteron board w/dual processors. Might as well go with XP32 for now.

Ballpark estimate from Monarch:

80233 Pre-Tested and Setup AMD Opteron Tower Barebones System 1 $69.00 $69.00
Cases: 100937 - No PS - Enermax CS-10182-BA E-ATX Tower ( $93.65 $93.65
Power Supply: 100132 - PS 550 - Sparkle FSP550-60PLG EPS 12V Pow $99.62 $99.62
Case Fan: None
Motherboard: 110192 - Asus K8N-DL nForce4 Pro Audio/GB-LAN/USB/ $255.00 $255.00
Processor: 120437 - AMD Opteron 248 2.2GHz 1MB 64/32 Bit (940 $307.00 $307.00
2nd Processor: 120437 - AMD Opteron 248 2.2GHz 1MB 64/32 Bit (940 $307.00 $307.00
Heat Sink Fan: 800083 - None - Fan REQUIRED - except with RETAIL
Thermal Grease: 800018 - Shin-Etsu G675 Thermal Grease (Cools CPU $14.99 $14.99
2nd Heat Sink Fan: 800083 - None - Fan REQUIRED - except with RETAIL
2nd Thermal Grease: $14.99
Memory: 140751-2 DDR (400) 3200 - 2 GB (2 pcs 1GB) Reg ECC $231.36 $231.36
2nd memory: 140751-2 DDR (400) 3200 - 2 GB (2 pcs 1GB) Reg ECC $231.36 $231.36
Round Cables: None
Warranty: 800240 - Standard Tech Support, 90 Day Li $39.00 $39.00
Cool Sticker Set: 270462 - AMD Opteron Sticker Set - FREE with purch $2.99 $2.99
BONUS Linux Journal Subscription: None
Subtotal for 80233 with your selected options: $1,665.96
Shipping: $0.00
t Sales Tax: $0.00
Order Total: $1,665.96

This is without HDs, video card, opticals, or OS.

 

[w00t]

Originally posted by: MrX8503
i would get a raptor.

exactly, why not to get one a typical beginner mistake.

 

[Madwand1]

Bit of a shame to go to all the trouble to build a dual opty board and not take advantage of its main driver, >4GB RAM. I think this setup is asking for a modest budget increase, to the full 6 GB, XP-64, and some decent drives for maximum results / cost.