Pro-lifers, please explain this to me

[johnjohn320]

Pro-life individuals believe that life begins at the time of conception, and is to be valued as a human life and respected as such-to terminate it is murder. Could be religious reasons or whatever, but it's fair to say this is what y'all believe, right?

Most of you, however, feel that exceptions should be made in the case of rape and incest. In fact, it's really only the outliers who feel that abortion should still be illegal for victims of rape.

My question is, how can you be pro-life for the above reasons, but only in cases where the chick was having a good time? Is the life that develops as the product of rape no longer a life? Should it not be valued?

I'm not trying to start a flame war here, it's a legitimate question. Why is the sanctity of life only in place when it's the product of voluntary sexual intercourse?

EDIT: I didn't say anything about the damn death penalty!

 

[Bird222]

Originally posted by: johnjohn320
Pro-life individuals believe that life begins at the time of conception, and is to be valued as a human life and respected as such-to terminate it is murder. Could be religious reasons or whatever, but it's fair to say this is what y'all believe, right?

Most of you, however, feel that exceptions should be made in the case of rape and incest. In fact, it's really only the outliers who feel that abortion should still be illegal for victims of rape.

My question is, how can you be pro-life for the above reasons, but only in cases where the chick was having a good time? Is the life that develops as the product of rape no longer a life? Should it not be valued?

I'm not trying to start a flame war here, it's a legitimate question. Why is the sanctity of life only in place when it's the product of voluntary sexual intercourse?

Good question. You'll also find that alot of 'pro-life' people are for the death penalty.

 

[Dari]

And what if you knew you were carrying a serial murderer, baby Hitler? Would you let him kill others before killing him in the electric chair?

 

[AreaCode7O7]

Originally posted by: Bird222

Originally posted by: johnjohn320
Pro-life individuals believe that life begins at the time of conception, and is to be valued as a human life and respected as such-to terminate it is murder. Could be religious reasons or whatever, but it's fair to say this is what y'all believe, right?

Most of you, however, feel that exceptions should be made in the case of rape and incest. In fact, it's really only the outliers who feel that abortion should still be illegal for victims of rape.

My question is, how can you be pro-life for the above reasons, but only in cases where the chick was having a good time? Is the life that develops as the product of rape no longer a life? Should it not be valued?

I'm not trying to start a flame war here, it's a legitimate question. Why is the sanctity of life only in place when it's the product of voluntary sexual intercourse?

Good question. You'll also find that alot of 'pro-life' people are for the death penalty.

It is a good question.

My position, for the record: pro-life, no exceptions for rape/incest, anti-death penalty.

I think that the reason some pro-lifers make the exception for rape and incest is out of an emotional sympathy for the person that went through that traumatic experience and an understanding of how much more traumatic carrying a baby to term would be.

For me personally, I recognize it as life-changingly horrific, on both counts. However, I still consider the deliberate death of a baby to take priority over the emotional strife of the mother. That doesn't make it less heart-wrenching or terrible though.

I think the harder question, for me at least, is abortion when the mother's life is in severe risk. At that point you're choosing between lives, and there isn't a clear moral priority.

 

[Insomniator]

Its a tough question, I'm not sure what my stance is.

But comparing it to being in favor of the death penalty or not is idiotic.

 

[winnar111]

If you want to kill someone for rape, execute the rapist. Spare the baby.

 

[GenHoth]

I'm pro abortion and pro death penalty, sweet my positions make sense.

 

[Red Dawn]

I'm Pro Choice, I hope the choice is life but the choice is not mine to make.

 

[johnjohn320]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I'm Pro Choice, I hope the choice is life but the choice is not mine to make.

Red, every time we agree on something it terrifies me.

 

[Double Trouble]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I'm Pro Choice, I hope the choice is life but the choice is not mine to make.

Agreed 100%, I think it's the logical position to take. Make your own decision based on your values, let others make theirs.

 

[Kenazo]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I'm Pro Choice, I hope the choice is life but the choice is not mine to make.

My thoughts too. I don't think it's my place to make the choice for others, however I don't think there is anything wrong with encouraging others to make the choice for life either. But, I don't think that means that our gov't should be making abortion illegal.

 

[HendrixFan]

I have found that many pro lifers do not agree with abortions in the case of incest or rape, so there is no contradiction there.

As far as the death penalty, neither side of the debate is inconsistent.

A pro-lifer that supports the death penalty sees that life starts at conception and is an innocent being. A criminal sentenced to death is not innocent, and the murder is justified.

A pro-choicer that speaks out against the death penalty does not think that life starts at conception, so it is not murder.

The whole debate centers on when life begins. The death penalty has no relevance other than to distract people from the core of the debate.

 

[Moonbeam]

As soon as truth is absolute you face paradox. You absolutely can't enslave people and you can't kill people. You can't be pro life without being pro slavery and visa versa. The answer all practical people have realized is that truth is not absolute when it creates irreconcilable conflicts. Intelligent people have therefore declared that the fetus is not a person even though to an absolutist it is.

The virtue of pro life leads to the monstrosity of slavery but fanatics don't really care.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: johnjohn320

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I'm Pro Choice, I hope the choice is life but the choice is not mine to make.

Red, every time we agree on something it terrifies me.

Pragmatism does terrify youngsters

 

[XZeroII]

I fit your profile and don't see a contradiction. I believe that you choosing to have sex is your choice to accept the consequences of that action which could include having a child. In the case of rape, the woman is not choosing to have a child, thus abortion would be an option. As for the death penalty, those people did something wrong and they are being punished for their crime. A child didn't do anything wrong and thus shouldn't be killed.

I see no problems with my point of view.

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: HendrixFan
I have found that many pro lifers do not agree with abortions in the case of incest or rape, so there is no contradiction there.

As far as the death penalty, neither side of the debate is inconsistent.

A pro-lifer that supports the death penalty sees that life starts at conception and is an innocent being. A criminal sentenced to death is not innocent, and the murder is justified.

A pro-choicer that speaks out against the death penalty does not think that life starts at conception, so it is not murder.

The whole debate centers on when life begins. The death penalty has no relevance other than to distract people from the core of the debate.

No, it IS hypocritical. At least, if you use the term "pro life" and not "anti abortion". If you believe that all life is sacred and all that hippy crap you should be firmly against the death penalty.

At least I can say I'm consistent. I'm pro abortion, pro death penalty, pro war, pro letting the terry schiavos of the world die.....I guess you could say I'm anti-life

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: AreaCode707

Originally posted by: Bird222

Originally posted by: johnjohn320
Pro-life individuals believe that life begins at the time of conception, and is to be valued as a human life and respected as such-to terminate it is murder. Could be religious reasons or whatever, but it's fair to say this is what y'all believe, right?

Most of you, however, feel that exceptions should be made in the case of rape and incest. In fact, it's really only the outliers who feel that abortion should still be illegal for victims of rape.

My question is, how can you be pro-life for the above reasons, but only in cases where the chick was having a good time? Is the life that develops as the product of rape no longer a life? Should it not be valued?

I'm not trying to start a flame war here, it's a legitimate question. Why is the sanctity of life only in place when it's the product of voluntary sexual intercourse?

Good question. You'll also find that alot of 'pro-life' people are for the death penalty.

It is a good question.

My position, for the record: pro-life, no exceptions for rape/incest, anti-death penalty.

I think that the reason some pro-lifers make the exception for rape and incest is out of an emotional sympathy for the person that went through that traumatic experience and an understanding of how much more traumatic carrying a baby to term would be.

For me personally, I recognize it as life-changingly horrific, on both counts. However, I still consider the deliberate death of a baby to take priority over the emotional strife of the mother. That doesn't make it less heart-wrenching or terrible though.

I think the harder question, for me at least, is abortion when the mother's life is in severe risk. At that point you're choosing between lives, and there isn't a clear moral priority.

So, how do you feel about blowing up abortion clinics? Are you in favor of that? How about killing doctors who perform abortions?

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I'm Pro Choice, I hope the choice is life but the choice is not mine to make.

Agreed 100%, I think it's the logical position to take. Make your own decision based on your values, let others make theirs.

+1

Abortion should be safe, rare and legal.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I'm Pro Choice, I hope the choice is life but the choice is not mine to make.

Agreed 100%, I think it's the logical position to take. Make your own decision based on your values, let others make theirs.

If only that applied to environmentalism.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: HendrixFan
I have found that many pro lifers do not agree with abortions in the case of incest or rape, so there is no contradiction there.

As far as the death penalty, neither side of the debate is inconsistent.

A pro-lifer that supports the death penalty sees that life starts at conception and is an innocent being. A criminal sentenced to death is not innocent, and the murder is justified.

A pro-choicer that speaks out against the death penalty does not think that life starts at conception, so it is not murder.

The whole debate centers on when life begins. The death penalty has no relevance other than to distract people from the core of the debate.

Doesn't the bible teach us to turn the other cheek? What happens when a person is wrongly convicted?

Edit-Does anyone really believe that the death penalty prevents crime?

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: HendrixFan
I have found that many pro lifers do not agree with abortions in the case of incest or rape, so there is no contradiction there.

As far as the death penalty, neither side of the debate is inconsistent.

A pro-lifer that supports the death penalty sees that life starts at conception and is an innocent being. A criminal sentenced to death is not innocent, and the murder is justified.

A pro-choicer that speaks out against the death penalty does not think that life starts at conception, so it is not murder.

The whole debate centers on when life begins. The death penalty has no relevance other than to distract people from the core of the debate.

Doesn't the bible teach us to turn the other cheek? What happens when a person is wrongly convicted?

Edit-Does anyone really believe that the death penalty prevents crime?

It certainly stops the convicted from committing another crime.


You won't find anyone more pro-death penalty than me, however at the present time I cannot stand in favor of it because the justice system is broken. Until you can fix it and not turn capital punishment into a crime of having bad lawyers then I'll stand against it.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: GenHoth
I'm pro abortion and pro death penalty, sweet my positions make sense.

I'm pro-choice and anti-death-penalty, and my positions are completely consistent.

Hint: A 1st-trimester or early 2nd-trimester fetus may be a human life but it is NOT a person.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
As soon as truth is absolute you face paradox. You absolutely can't enslave people and you can't kill people. You can't be pro life without being pro slavery and visa versa. The answer all practical people have realized is that truth is not absolute when it creates irreconcilable conflicts. Intelligent people have therefore declared that the fetus is not a person even though to an absolutist it is.

The virtue of pro life leads to the monstrosity of slavery but fanatics don't really care.

Well said.

 

[Balt]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I'm Pro Choice, I hope the choice is life but the choice is not mine to make.

Agreed 100%, I think it's the logical position to take. Make your own decision based on your values, let others make theirs.

If only that applied to environmentalism.

Environmental decisions often can't be left up to one individual because they often affect more people than just that individual. If I decide I want to sell my property to someone who needs a place to dump their trash do you think my neighbors might be just a little peeved?

"Tragedy of the Commons"

 

[johnjohn320]

Originally posted by: XZeroII
I fit your profile and don't see a contradiction. I believe that you choosing to have sex is your choice to accept the consequences of that action which could include having a child. In the case of rape, the woman is not choosing to have a child, thus abortion would be an option. ...

I see no problems with my point of view.

So, you basically are pro-life because the mother should be punished for having sex and getting pregnant?