Pro Life or Pro Choice?

[xj0hnx]

Say what? Contradictory much? Maybe they are taking personal responsibility by aborting it..ever think of that?

Nothing contradictory about it at all. I don't have to like them murdering their child to believe they have the right to, or believe that they should take the responsibility for their actions instead. It's the same as believing that while racist hate speech is abhorrent , they still have the right to their speech.

 

[Retro Rob]

What does that have to do with anything? He is saying that what he considers murder should be legal.

I just don't think it can be enforced unless you can make abortion doctors and clinics illegal businesses and practices.

Then people will find other ways to have it done. Like was said, people need to be accountable and responsible.

 

[nehalem256]

Nothing contradictory about it at all. I don't have to like them murdering their child to believe they have the right to, or believe that they should take the responsibility for their actions instead. It's the same as believing that while racist hate speech is abhorrent , they still have the right to their speech.

No its more like saying that while you disagree with the lynching policy of the KKK, and find it abhorrent, you fully support their right to do so.

I just don't think it can be enforced unless you can make abortion doctors and clinics illegal businesses and practices.

Well of course if you want abortions to be illegal you making abortion doctors/clinics illegal.

Then people will find other ways to have it done. Like was said, people need to be accountable and responsible.

You kinda just rationalized away all laws. People break laws all the time, and when they do they are punished. Do you think there might be more shop lifting if it was legal?

 

[Retro Rob]

You kinda just rationalized away all laws. People break laws all the time, and when they do they are punished. Do you think there might be more shop lifting if it was legal?

????

I am not rationalizing anything.

I'm just saying that people will find ways to do it. I am not saying that we shouldn't make it illegal BECAUSE people will circumvent the law.

I am holding the pregnant parties responsible

 

[Anarchist420]

Are you honestly arguing that murder should be legal?

I'm arguing that the state shouldn't exist, because it normalizes murder. Agents of the state act in their own best interest. They care about their paycheck and getting reelected. At least 80% of people who accept power will be corrupted.

 

[Anarchist420]

Do you think there might be more shop lifting if it was legal?

There would be less theft if the state didn't exist. The rewards from shoplifting in free society would be very limited.

 

[jackstar7]

I am holding the pregnant parties responsible

So, if a couple pursues birth after being denied the abortion by you, can they sue you if there is a miscarriage?

 

[Charles Kozierok]

There's no option for "both".

 

[Retro Rob]

So, if a couple pursues birth after being denied the abortion by you, can they sue you if there is a miscarriage?

All I am saying is what's so wrong with people accepting the consequences or benefits of a mutual interaction?

I am married, ok, and my wife and I use birth control -- but we are also cognizant of the fact that we could get pregnant. We have accepted the possibility that it could happen and are willing to take care of a child.

Good grief... what's so wrong with personal accountability people? Why blame the child and kill it because you don't want it, but then do the things that contribute to creating one?

 

[woolfe9999]

Nothing contradictory about it at all. I don't have to like them murdering their child to believe they have the right to, or believe that they should take the responsibility for their actions instead. It's the same as believing that while racist hate speech is abhorrent , they still have the right to their speech.

No, that IS contradictory. If you believe abortion is truly "murder," it ought to be illegal like any other form of murder.

 

[soulcougher73]

All I am saying is what's so wrong with people accepting the consequences or benefits of a mutual interaction?

I am married, ok, and my wife and I use birth control -- but we are also cognizant of the fact that we could get pregnant. We have accepted the possibility that it could happen and are willing to take care of a child.

Good grief... what's so wrong with personal accountability people? Why blame the child and kill it because you don't want it, but then do the things that contribute to creating one?

I'm in the same boat as you. Married and wife is on BC. But we would have an abortion if she did get pregnant. Our personal responsibility is taking BC in the first place as obviously we don't want children or we wouldn't be taking the BC. That is our morality and we're fine with it.

 

[Retro Rob]

I'm in the same boat as you. Married and wife is on BC. But we would have an abortion if she did get pregnant. Our personal responsibility is taking BC in the first place as obviously we don't want children or we wouldn't be taking the BC. That is our morality and we're fine with it.

While it's your (and your wife's) choice, that's not being responsible. Sorry, but I am calling it as I see it so I do apologize for being straight up with you if it offends you.

You'd be more than happy to enjoy sex and the pleasure that comes with it, but with that pleasure, possibly, comes children.. but that's something you aren't taking accountability for.

You are NOT in the same boat as me.. not even close.

 

[jackstar7]

All I am saying is what's so wrong with people accepting the consequences or benefits of a mutual interaction?

I am married, ok, and my wife and I use birth control -- but we are also cognizant of the fact that we could get pregnant. We have accepted the possibility that it could happen and are willing to take care of a child.

Good grief... what's so wrong with personal accountability people? Why blame the child and kill it because you don't want it, but then do the things that contribute to creating one?

But what you said was that you were holding them accountable. Are you changing that position because you don't actually want to be responsible for taking away their choice and the possible consequences you'd then face?

You can disagree on moral grounds with their decision, but do you want the law to reflect your personal morality?

 

[Atreus21]

You can disagree on moral grounds with their decision, but do you want the law to reflect your personal morality?

Are you contending that the current law doesn't reflect someone's personal morality?

 

[soulcougher73]

While it's your (and your wife's) choice, that's not being responsible. Sorry, but I am calling it as I see it so I do apologize for being straight up with you if it offends you.

You'd be more than happy to enjoy sex and the pleasure that comes with it, but with that pleasure, possibly, comes children.. but that's something you aren't taking accountability for.

You are NOT in the same boat as me.. not even close.

Yes we are in the same boat. We just choose different ways to handle an unintended outcome that we are already taking responsibility to prevent. The difference is I don't try to tell you what to do. It's your choice, your life. I don't try to legislate my morals onto you.

 

[Retro Rob]

But what you said was that you were holding them accountable. Are you changing that position because you don't actually want to be responsible for taking away their choice and the possible consequences you'd then face?

You can disagree on moral grounds with their decision, but do you want the law to reflect your personal morality?

If I were to take away their choice, for example, I can't be held accountable for things unseen that I, or no one, don't have any control over (miscarriages, deformities, etc). Whose to say abortions will make those things avoidable anyway? Just do what's right. That's all I am saying.

If a person stuck his hand in a Lion's mouth and got it bitten off, can he have the Lion killed? If I willingly penetrated a woman (birth control or not) and a child was made, why kill the child? Why not either take care of it, stop having sex, or have permanent sterilization if I don't want kids that badly?

 

[Retro Rob]

Yes we are in the same boat. We just choose different ways to handle an unintended outcome that we are already taking responsibility to prevent. The difference is I don't try to tell you what to do. It's your choice, your life. I don't try to legislate my morals onto you.

We are not in the same boat, bro. We are not. I would never abort a child, you would.

 

[jackstar7]

Are you contending that the current law doesn't reflect someone's personal morality?

What does one have to do with the other?

Because no, I wasn't making that contention. I was asking a question as to whether he wants the law to reflect his personal morality...which is what I asked.

 

[jackstar7]

If I were to take away their choice, for example, I can't be held accountable for things unseen that I, or no one, don't have any control over (miscarriages, deformities, etc). Whose to say abortions will make those things avoidable anyway? Just do what's right. That's all I am saying.

If a person stuck his hand in a Lion's mouth and got it bitten off, can he have the Lion killed? If I willingly penetrated a woman (birth control or not) and a child was made, why kill the child? Why not either take care of it, stop having sex, or have permanent sterilization if I don't want kids that badly?

No excpetions? Or some exceptions? I just want to understand your position because the circumstances you are using seem kinda specific.

For dramatic effect: your wife is raped and made pregnant. Do you insist that she carry the child to term and that you raise it?

 

[Retro Rob]

Because no, I wasn't making that contention. I was asking a question as to whether he wants the law to reflect his personal morality...which is what I asked.

To answer, no.

Just do what's we know to be the right thing... and that's accept what we bring upon ourselves if we WILLINGLY decide on a course of action.

 

[cybrsage]

Pro-life.

Very few arguments in favor of abortion are not also applicable to infanticide.

^This. Something Obama supports as well.

Personally, I find it abhorrent to execute one human for the actions other humans performed (and that the executed human had nothing to do with).

 

[jackstar7]

To answer, no.

Just do what's we know to be the right thing... and that's accept what we bring upon ourselves if we WILLINGLY decide on a course of action.

It's your use of "right" that's a sticking point. "We" don't all have your certainty on this matter.

 

[Retro Rob]

No excpetions? Or some exceptions? I just want to understand your position because the circumstances you are using seem kinda specific.

For dramatic effect: your wife is raped and made pregnant. Do you insist that she carry the child to term and that you raise it?

Good and valid question dude!

No exceptions. Yes, I'd be mad and hurt but we won't abort a child. I feel where you're coming from and I am not saying it wouldn't cross my mind because honestly, it probably would.

But, we see child abortion as murder and murder isn't justifiable outside of immanent danger to one's own life.

 

[soulcougher73]

We are not in the same boat, bro. We are not. I would never abort a child, you would.

Sorry, its over your head. I wont take up anymore of your time with it. How you dont get were both married and both our wives are on BC because we want to prevent birth as not in the same boat is beyond me. Good luck. :thumbsup:

 

[Retro Rob]

It's your use of "right" that's a sticking point. "We" don't all have your certainty on this matter.

So, is it not right to take responsibility for your actions? That's what I mean by "right" in this case. Not the extreme like rape. I won't ask people to keep a child in that case since it's outside the norm.

They had little or no control in that matter and is very sad.