Prius is 3rd-best selling automobile line in the world

[Eug]

both the Yaris and Prius are vaginamobiles

You can say that again. The two vehicles that women wanted to ride with me in/on were my Prius and my motorcycle. People that I knew but not that well would just ask me out of the blue to go for a drive in the Prius. This was in the early days though. Early 2000s.

Similarly, the only computer I've ever got repeated questions about from random good-looking women (coffee shop, airport) was my iBook G3. This stopped as soon as I got my PowerBook Titanium (which was much more powerful and much more expensive).

 

[Childs]

<SNIP>

Most people would not buy a Yaris or Kia simply because they are a Yaris and Kia. If you remove the notion or breaking even on MPG, the Prius is still a better car. Your comparison only makes sense if you are comparing a Yaris vs Yaris hybrid, all other things being equal. This is not the case vs the Prius.

 

[SP33Demon]

Most people would not buy a Yaris or Kia simply because they are a Yaris and Kia. If you remove the notion or breaking even on MPG, the Prius is still a better car. Your comparison only makes sense if you are comparing a Yaris vs Yaris hybrid, all other things being equal. This is not the case vs the Prius.

The notion of saving via mpg is why the Prius gets so much hype. So why should we "remove this notion" of breaking even on mpg?

I just showed that two cars, one a super cheap econobox and the other a more powerful/roomier sedan with a much better warranty both trump the Prius in value by 1-2 decades to break even in cost. You can either ignore this or still put your head in the sand and buy the Prius b/c it's the fad of the day for hipster/hippies who think they're saving the environment. Good luck.

 

[Childs]

The notion of saving via mpg is why the Prius gets so much hype. So why should we "remove this notion" of breaking even on mpg?

I just showed that two cars, one a super cheap econobox and the other a more powerful/roomier sedan with a much better warranty both trump the Prius in value by 1-2 decades to break even in cost. You can either ignore this or still put your head in the sand and buy the Prius b/c it's the fad of the day for hipster/hippies who think they're saving the environment. Good luck.

If Kias build and design quality is on par with Toyota, then that would be one thing, but I doubt they are. People pay for better versions of similar things all the time. Prius is spacious, and gets the best MPG, with all the modern convienences. If you need to pinch pennies to the point where you are considering a Yaris or Kia, maybe you should be buying a used Civic. People generally buy econoboxes because they have to, not cause they want to.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Sp33demon, why do you ignore other factors other than just mileage? There are other costs associated with cars; insurance, maintenance, etc.

Look at the total cost of ownership on the cars you posted:

http://www.edmunds.com/toyota/prius/2012/tco.html?style=101420728

That's a model 2, step up from the one you posted, $35,000 over 5 years

And the Kia

http://www.edmunds.com/kia/forte/2012/tco.html?style=101403454

The basic stripped model with a manual transmission, still $35,000 over 5 years.

You'd honestly rather pay the same amount and drive the Kia?

 

[PhoKingGuy]

Again, I know plenty of very well off people who have the standard MB/BMW/Audi luxo barge and a prius as their everyday car, why you ask?

Contrary to most popular belief, people like to save money on gas, in addition, they like to travel in comfort/have some status as well. In most metro areas, driving up to a nice restaurant in a Prius will gather you the same reception as if you drove up in one of the aformentioned german lux cars. You also can get most of the goodies you want (Leather, navi, BT, radar cruise control, etc)

You can't say the same for a 3 door yaris, which I don't even want to be seen in.

 

[SP33Demon]

Sp33demon, why do you ignore other factors other than just mileage? There are other costs associated with cars; insurance, maintenance, etc.

Look at the total cost of ownership on the cars you posted:

http://www.edmunds.com/toyota/prius/2012/tco.html?style=101420728

That's a model 2, step up from the one you posted, $35,000 over 5 years

And the Kia

http://www.edmunds.com/kia/forte/2012/tco.html?style=101403454

The basic stripped model with a manual transmission, still $35,000 over 5 years.

You'd honestly rather pay the same amount and drive the Kia?

You are still $7841 in the hole, that is only projecting the costs AFTER you've bought it. So thanks for punctuating my point even more; making matters worse, it's still showing higher insurance, repairs, and depreciation on the Prius.

Let me explain if in Layman's if you're still confused: after 5 years, if the True Cost to Own (TCO) is virtually the same then you still haven't made a fucking dent in the original price difference of $7841 since TCO is calculating every expense that will be on top of your car payment. Ideally, the Prius's TCO should be lower since the Prius is supposed to be catching up in gas mileage, but it's the higher insurance/repairs/depreciation cancels that out. Thanks for that data. /thumbsup

In any case, take a look at a comparable Honda Civic (~33K "true cost to own") which is even worse of a gap.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

You are still $7841 in the hole, that is only projecting the costs AFTER you've bought it. So thanks for punctuating my point even more; making matters worse, it's still showing higher insurance, repairs, and depreciation on the Prius.

Let me explain if in Layman's if you're still confused: after 5 years, if the True Cost to Own (TCO) is virtually the same then you still haven't made a fucking dent in the original price difference of $7841 since TCO is calculating every expense that will be on top of your car payment. Ideally, the Prius's TCO should be lower since the Prius is supposed to be catching up in gas mileage, but it's the higher insurance/repairs/depreciation cancels that out. Thanks for that data. /thumbsup

In any case, take a look at a comparable Honda Civic (~33K "true cost to own") which is even worse of a gap.

wat?

No that's not what it is saying. Look at the tables like this:

Kia - Non car payment outlay (everything but depreciation) = $25,093

You pay $17207 for the car. Total cash outlay is $42,300. Depreciation is $10285, or the car is worth $7000 (17207 - 10285) at the end of 5 years.

On the Prius, the non car payment outlay is $22,140. The purchase price of $27,130 makes the total cash outlay $49,270 out of your pocket. However, the Prius is worth $14,000 at the end of 5 years ($27,130 price minus depreciation of $13,128).

Or $7000 more than the Kia. You sell both at the end of 5 years, they both cost you exactly the same.

 

[SP33Demon]

wat?

No that's not what it is saying. Look at the tables like this:

Kia - Non car payment outlay (everything but depreciation) = $25,093

You pay $17207 for the car. Total cash outlay is $42,300. Depreciation is $10285, or the car is worth $7000 (17207 - 10285) at the end of 5 years.

On the Prius, the non car payment outlay is $22,140. The purchase price of $27,130 makes the total cash outlay $49,270 out of your pocket. However, the Prius is worth $14,000 at the end of 5 years ($27,130 price minus depreciation of $13,128).

Or $7000 more than the Kia. You sell both at the end of 5 years, they both cost you exactly the same.

Nope, depreciation is already included in the 5 year cost. Look at the table again:

Year 1 Year 2 Year 3 Year 4 Year 5 5 Yr Total
Depreciation $5,576 $2,204 $1,941 $1,719 $1,543 $12,983
Taxes & Fees $1,582 $80 $80 $80 $80 $1,902
Financing $1,026 $819 $600 $373 $134 $2,952
Fuel $1,128 $1,162 $1,197 $1,233 $1,270 $5,990
Insurance $2,091 $2,164 $2,240 $2,318 $2,399 $11,212
Maintenance $41 $363 $503 $823 $1,520 $3,250
Repairs $0 $0 $97 $234 $340 $671
Tax Credit $0 $0
True Cost to Own ® $11,444 $6,792 $6,658 $6,780 $7,286 $38,960

Add up everything in bold and the equals $38,960. It's not including the original price, depreciation is the total that you are losing each year.

Maybe now you'll see that the Prius never even makes up any ground off the 7.8K MSRP difference, even with it's superior mileage b/c like I said before, the depreciation/insurance/repairs cancel out those gains.

 

[DesiPower]

For the last time, there is much more substance inside the hybrids they are not just another car... I am done arguing with idiots...

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Let me try this again. Ignore depreciation for the first half, we are only concerned about CASH spent. Depreciation isn't a cash item.

Prius, total cash out of your pocket to own, $49,270
Kia Forte, total cash out of your pocket to own, $42,300

That's the total amount you are paying, payments, insurance, fuel, etc. The Prius costs $7,000 more.

However, when it comes time to sell the car at the end of 5 years, the Prius is worth $14,000 (the $27,130 you paid minus $13,128).

The Forte is worth $7,000 (the $17,207 you paid, minus $10,285 in depreciation).

So the Prius gets you another $7,000 in cash when you sell it, offsetting the $7,000 you would have saved buying the Forte.

The $10,000 difference purchase price is $7,000 in the value of the Prius, and $3,000 in operating cost (fuel, etc.) savings over the Forte.

Again, ignore depreciation until you sell it, as it is a non cash item.

Does that make more sense? Does anyone else see what I'm saying or am I just crazy and shit the bed or something?

 

[Childs]

I would go further and question Edmunds numbers as well. I have a 69 Mustang Fastback and 12 Dodge Challenger R/T, and full coverage for both is under $1200/year. Financing does not apply to all. The depreciation seems suspect as well. Those numbers say you should be able to get a 2007 Prius with 75K miles for $14k. Just doing a search on edmunds shows around $16K, without tax, title, etc. Insurance on the Kia seems high as well. And there are no 5 year old Fortes on the market to compare. I can't imagine the market for 5 to Kias being all the competitive when you can get something else for the same amount of money.

Does that make more sense? Does anyone else see what I'm saying or am I just crazy and shit the bed or something?

You put more in, you get more out. Generally the way things work.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

I would go further and question Edmunds numbers as well. I have a 69 Mustang Fastback and 12 Dodge Challenger R/T, and full coverage for both is under $1200/year. Financing does not apply to all. The depreciation seems suspect as well. Those numbers say you should be able to get a 2007 Prius with 75K miles for $14k. Just doing a search on edmunds shows around $16K, without tax, title, etc. Insurance on the Kia seems high as well. And there are no 5 year old Fortes on the market to compare. I can't imagine the market for 5 to Kias being all the competitive when you can get something else for the same amount of money.



You put more in, you get more out. Generally the way things work.

Making sure I wasn't in bizarro world. Masters in accountancy, been doing it daily for 10 years and teaching it adjunct at the college, was making sure I'm not drunk or something.

 

[brainhulk]

My post was directed to the poster who claimed they only cared about mileage. Read the thread. I don't give two shits about roominess and neither does my math.

Let's do the calculations over for the prius c in L.A. gas prices
2012 Prius C barebones = $18950

2012 Yaris barebones = $14,115
http://www.autotrader.com/research/configure/trimselection.jsp?year=2012&make=Toyota&model=Yaris

Prius: 16,000/yr @63mpg combined street/hwy= 16,000/63 * 4.4 =$ 1117
Yaris: 16,000/yr @34mpg combined street/hwy= 16,000/34 * 4.4 = $2070
Breakeven point: $2070-1117 = $953, $4835/953 = 5 years

ok at that point it becomes the intelligent person's choice to drive the prius. plus if gas prices go up, it becomes even a more obvious choice


now let's do it for a speed demon who will not drive either

Prius: 16,000/yr @63mpg hwy= 16,000/63 * 4.4 =$ 1117
camaro with special mullet edition racing stripe: 16,000/yr @14mpg hwy= 16,000/14 * 4.4 = $5028

yeah, i'm not even going do a break even point and just lol

 

[foghorn67]

Prius haters claiming Prius drivers have their soul stolen at point of sale.
Or at least the cost of ownership is their manhood.

Prius lovers making mom jokes.

Stay classy ATOT.

 

[AdamK47]

It seems as if we have an abundance of automotive experts on a computer tech forum. Who knew?

 

[Eug]

FWIW, the Prius taxi drivers in Vancouver seem to love them. Not only do they love the lower fuel costs, they also claim their maintenance costs are significantly lower. And the guy that drove me to the restaurant says one of their Priuses now has 400000 km on it and they just did regular maintenance. It's still using the original battery pack.

BTW, re: mileage. I filled up mine today. 603 km, 33.4 litres which is 5.5 litres/100 km. That's 375 miles over 8.8 gallons, or 42.5 mpg mostly city driving, from an 8 year-old car. This is real-world with jack-rabbit acceleration in the city. The gas-saver geeks get closer to 50 mpg or more.

I'm currently at a little under 120000 km. I think I'm going to be driving this to about 180000-220000 km before I consider upgrading.

My repairs so far:

1) Wheel bearings on one side had to be replaced.
2) Replaced the tires a couple of times (punctures).
3) New brake pads.
4) Multifunction LCD display died.
5) CD changer has a stuck CD.

#4 was the worst. They wanted $3000 to replace it, or $1100 for a used one. So I removed it myself, mailed it to the US and had it fixed there for $300 by some guy who runs a Prius salvage yard. It has nothing to do with the function of the car, but it displays the fuel usage and is the touch screen for the stereo system and climate control so it's very annoying not to have it. As for the CD changer, I haven't bothered to fix it. A used one eBay goes for about $100, but I'm checking to see what can be installed with iPod compatibility. (No aux input on mine.)

The shocks/struts probably need replacing sooner rather than later though.

 

[SP33Demon]

Let me try this again. Ignore depreciation for the first half, we are only concerned about CASH spent. Depreciation isn't a cash item.

Prius, total cash out of your pocket to own, $49,270
Kia Forte, total cash out of your pocket to own, $42,300

That's the total amount you are paying, payments, insurance, fuel, etc. The Prius costs $7,000 more.

However, when it comes time to sell the car at the end of 5 years, the Prius is worth $14,000 (the $27,130 you paid minus $13,128).

The Forte is worth $7,000 (the $17,207 you paid, minus $10,285 in depreciation).

So the Prius gets you another $7,000 in cash when you sell it, offsetting the $7,000 you would have saved buying the Forte.

The $10,000 difference purchase price is $7,000 in the value of the Prius, and $3,000 in operating cost (fuel, etc.) savings over the Forte.

Again, ignore depreciation until you sell it, as it is a non cash item.

Does that make more sense? Does anyone else see what I'm saying or am I just crazy and shit the bed or something?

I see what you're saying now. However, even if the Edmunds "breakeven point" vs a Kia Forte is 5 years:
1) The Prius needs all 5 years to breakeven due to its mpg advantage, whereas the Kia can be sold at any point before 5 years to come out on top.
2) The Yaris and Civic are good examples where the Prius will not breakeven in 5 years with depreciation accounted for (according to Edmunds).

Either way, I'd still take the Kia due to its 2X long warranty for drivetrain and better regular warranty + more power. To each their own, but I will never fully understand the burning desire to drive vaginamobiles.

 

[Nintendesert]

So does China still control 99% of the rare earth metals that are needed to make all these batteries that drive these eco-mobiles? So instead of sending our money to the evil moooslims we're going and sending even more money to China as they rape the planet and our economies?

 

[rh71]

my wife needs a commuter car soon and I wouldn't have problems buying a PriusC as long as it has *some* power to it. I'm already expecting a very cheap interior. Gotta test drive first.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Prius haters: My penis small, therefore I buy big manly car to compensate. Hate Prius owners because they get woman even with unmanly car. Me do burnout to show disgust, comb unibrow and mullet. Ugh. Grunt. Urg...

Prius owners: Hmm, I could buy this economical car for $28k brand new, drive it for 2 years and probably sell it for almost as much as I paid for it because the demand is so high. I don't see a downside to owning this car. I think I'll buy it! Winning! Profit!

 

[rh71]

my wife needs a commuter car soon and I wouldn't have problems buying a PriusC as long as it has *some* power to it. I'm already expecting a very cheap interior. Gotta test drive first.

I now retract this... seems like a crappy expensive-for-what-it-is car because it's a hybrid with the same name. I mean I would stay away from a Kia if this Toyota offered what they usually do, but this doesn't seem like it even does that.

http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2012/06/the-toyota-prius-c-isnt-a-good-car-and-heres-why.html

 

[freegeeks]

there is one problem, it's butt ugly