Prisoner scalded to death in shower, guards will not be charged

[HamburgerBoy]

So are we working on the assumption that the memo was fake and the guards, investigators, and coroner all collaborated to destroy the evidence? The report says that neither burn marks nor sloughed skin were found, that the shower was large enough for a person to stand away from the single stream, and the main sources of the accusation appear to be two prisoners vs dozens that claim to have never heard of the shower being too hot.

 

[Victorian Gray]

So are we working on the assumption that the memo was fake and the guards, investigators, and coroner all collaborated to destroy the evidence? The report says that neither burn marks nor sloughed skin were found, that the shower was large enough for a person to stand away from the single stream, and the main sources of the accusation appear to be two prisoners vs dozens that claim to have never heard of the shower being too hot.

If folks can shoot themselves in the front while being handcuffed behind their back and locked in the back seat of a police cruiser and after having been searched for weapons twice then why not?

“[Victor White III] was taken into custody, handcuffed behind his back, and transported to the Iberia Parish Sheriff’s Office for processing. Once at the Sheriff’s Office, White became uncooperative and refused to exit the deputy’s patrol vehicle. As the deputy requested assistance from other deputies, White produced a handgun and fired one round striking himself in the back.”​

The Iberia Parish coroner’s report, obtained by NBC News last month, contradicts the surreal events described above. In fact, its findings are downright unbelievable.

But according to the full final report of the Iberia Parish coroner, which was released nearly six months later and obtained exclusively by NBC News, White was shot in the front, not the back. The bullet entered his right chest and exited under his left armpit. White was left-handed, according to family members. According to the report, the forensic pathologist found gunshot residue in the wound, but not the sort of stippling that a close-range shot can sometimes produce. He also found abrasions on White’s face.
And yet, despite the contradictions – and even though White’s hands were never tested for gunpowder residue – the Iberia Parish coroner still supported the central contention of the initial police statement issued back in March. Dr. Carl Ditch ruled that White shot himself, and declared his death a suicide."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...whites-unbelievable-houdini-handcuff-suicide/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/08/magazine/the-preacher-and-the-sheriff.html?_r=0

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/...-police-account-of-victor-white-iiis-shooting

​

 

[HamburgerBoy]

In your story, the coroner had evidence that contradicted the police's claims. So you're saying that the coroner in this story doctored a report as well, in addition to all others involved? Doesn't explain why the guy chose to remain under the scalding shower unless he was so schizo that he couldn't comprehend/respond to pain at the time, as the photos clearly show he had room to avoid the shower.

 

[Victorian Gray]

In your story, the coroner had evidence that contradicted the police's claims. So you're saying that the coroner in this story doctored a report as well, in addition all others involved? Doesn't explain why the guy chose to remain under the scalding shower unless he was so schizo that he couldn't comprehend/respond to pain at the time, the photos clearly show he had room to avoid the shower.

Some of the words that you apparently didn't bother reading:

The bullet entered his right chest and exited under his left armpit. White was left-handed, according to family members. According to the report, the forensic pathologist found gunshot residue in the wound, but not the sort of stippling that a close-range shot can sometimes produce. He also found abrasions on White’s face.

And yet, despite the contradictions – and even though White’s hands were never tested for gunpowder residue – the Iberia Parish coroner still supported the central contention of the initial police statement issued back in March. Dr. Carl Ditch ruled that White shot himself, and declared his death a suicide.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

What about it? The coroner accepted the police's story despite the evidence, but that's not the same thing as destroying/forging evidence. The doctor that looked at the shower guy claimed to find no evidence of burns and found the cause to more likely be due to a heart condition compounded by his schizophrenia and drugs he was prescribed.

 

[Victorian Gray]

What about it? The coroner accepted the police's story despite the evidence, but that's not the same thing as destroying/forging evidence. The doctor that looked at the shower guy claimed to find no evidence of burns and found the cause to more likely be due to a heart condition compounded by his schizophrenia and drugs he was prescribed.

Believe whatever you want. There are documented stories like this from all over the US that detail collusion/conspiracy over the death/mistreatment of prisoners. This one smells an awful like all those other cases to me.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

This one smells an awful like all those other cases to me.

On what basis?

 

[Victorian Gray]

On what basis?

The sun rising in the East this morning.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

The sun rising in the East this morning.

Cool, you have the ability to automatically discern any prisoner's death as being wrongful or not without requiring evidence, is this something all Canadians possess or is it only the elite that make up your own internal investigative forces? I'm jealous.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Cool, you have the ability to automatically discern any prisoner's death as being wrongful or not without requiring evidence, is this something all Canadians possess or is it only the elite that make up your own internal investigative forces? I'm jealous.

https://www.afsc.org/document/torture-us-prisons

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...s-forced-inmates-game-of-thrones-style-fights

 

[Ichinisan]

California has some of the notoriously worst prisons in the country. In 2013 Pelican Bay had 1,500 inmates out of 3,500 total living in solitary confinement, 500 of which have been in solitary for over a decade, which is quite literally psychological torture and should be outlawed as cruel and unusual punishment. It can, and does, quite literally drive people insane. It's also notorious for rape both by prisoners and guards.

Then you have LA County where "To be an inmate in the Los Angeles County jails is to fear attacks" by a "savage gang of deputies," explains an extensive 2011 report (PDF) from the American Civil Liberties Union, which processes about 4,500 complaints each year from inmates of the nation's largest jail system. Here are a few stories:

In one alleged act of retaliation, two officers delivered a fierce beating to a prisoner who earlier had spoken to an ACLU representative on the block, "hitting him repeatedly in the face and knees with a flashlight" (he later received stitches on both sides of his face) before pepper-spraying him and throwing him down a flight of stairs. As the man lay bleeding, one of the deputies allegedly called out, "'You fucking whiners, tell this to the ACLU, I dare you.'"

In another case, deputies, believing a prisoner had called them "gay," allegedly slammed the man's head into a concrete wall, causing a concussion and a gash that required 35 stitches. He was then punched, kicked, pepper-sprayed, and shocked with a stun gun. The ACLU has even received reports of attacks on inmates who are mentally ill or confined to wheelchairs. Thomas Parker, a former FBI agent who oversaw the investigation of the Rodney King beating, called many of the routine beatings in the LA County jails "far more severe than the King beating."

Then you have Rikers Island in New York, the worst prison in the country, where the guards ran a "secret society" fight club getting inmates to extort and beat other inmates leading to one juvenile offender being stomped to death inside his cell.

Orleans Parish Prison, Louisiana might be a red state but New Orleans couldn't possibly be more blue, which has more fucked up problems than I can list.

My point isn't to say that blue or red states treat their prisoners worse it's that we as a nation ALL treat our prisoners very very badly. Texas has another 2 of the top 10 worst in the country. No Florida prison even made the top 10 worst list although I'm sure they are just as fucked up as California prisons. This is not a republican or democrat problem my friend, it's one problem that both sides should be able to unite on instead of politicizing it as you are attempting to do.

Seems like some manipulative presentation of data in your little tidbit.

First, your example sounds like someone who definitely belongs in solitary confinement. The state would get sued for millions if he harmed another prisoner.

Also, it's not even slightly noteworthy that California has more prisoners in solitary confinement than any other state. California has a much higher population to start with. No other state has half as many metropolises (is that how you pluralize it?). Los Angeles and the greater area, San Francisco, San Diego, and others... It's hugely disproportionate to the other states.

 

[pcgeek11]

Where people aren't cooked alive with impunity.

Like that happens in all the red states daily...

 

[pcgeek11]

https://www.afsc.org/document/torture-us-prisons

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...s-forced-inmates-game-of-thrones-style-fights

Yep it never happens anywhere else.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/renu-mandhane/mentally-ill-canadian-prison_b_1562704.html

http://www.straight.com/news/812561/reasonable-doubt-torture-canadian-prisons

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/52-months-of-torture-and-the-4-men-responsible/

 

[Victorian Gray]

Yep it never happens anywhere else.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/renu-mandhane/mentally-ill-canadian-prison_b_1562704.html

http://www.straight.com/news/812561/reasonable-doubt-torture-canadian-prisons

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/52-months-of-torture-and-the-4-men-responsible/

Who has claimed that it doesn't? Certainly not me.

btw, you believe that solitary confinement (which is indeed a terrible punishment the way it's often used) is similar to boiling prisoners alive? Or that it's similar to forcing prisoners to fight so guards could bet on them?

Our justice system has it's issues, especially the way the Canadian Aboriginal population is treated by the system, but it is in no way, shape, or form as bad or systemically broken as what the US situation is like.

EDIT: I find it interesting that your reaction to the thread is not to react to the alleged atrocity or others like that but, rather, to point your fingers elsewhere and say "we're not the only ones, nah, nah."

 

[pcgeek11]

No, it is just the self serving better than anyone else attitude you have.

The primary story has many holes and neither of us knows what really happened. I don't automatically assume the worse like you.

 

[Darwin333]

Believe whatever you want. There are documented stories like this from all over the US that detail collusion/conspiracy over the death/mistreatment of prisoners. This one smells an awful like all those other cases to me.

Frankly, there are a metric fuckton of other fucked up cases of blatant abuse in the prison system that I'm willing to take the coroner's report at face value and instead concentrate on those cases that we have hard evidence. I'm not saying that collusion isn't a possibility but without some sort of evidence any effort is better spent elsewhere.

 

[Darwin333]

Seems like some manipulative presentation of data in your little tidbit.

First, your example sounds like someone who definitely belongs in solitary confinement. The state would get sued for millions if he harmed another prisoner.

Also, it's not even slightly noteworthy that California has more prisoners in solitary confinement than any other state. California has a much higher population to start with. No other state has half as many metropolises (is that how you pluralize it?). Los Angeles and the greater area, San Francisco, San Diego, and others... It's hugely disproportionate to the other states.

That was copied and pasted from a Mother Jones article.

http://www.motherjones.com/topics/americas-worst-prisons

And I understand some form of segregation being necessary but complete and total solitary confinement with literally no human contact for months, years and even decades has proven to cause severe and permanent psychological disorders. It's literally torture and last I checked we aren't supposed to torture people under any circumstances. It would be quite easy to provide them with some sort of human interaction while keeping everyone safe. For the record, the vast majority of people being held in solitary are not there for harming other inmates or guards. Not to mention the fact that the majority of people who are put in long-term solitary confinement will eventually get out of jail. In what universe does it sound like a good idea to take a criminal and purposefully/knowingly GIVE him severe psychological disorders (or more than they already had) and then set them free into society?

And California has a very disproportionate amount of people in solitary confinement. As I said, one prison has 1,500 prisoners out of a total of 3,500 in solitary. That's a metric fuckton but read the articles and see what some of these people are thrown into the SHU for. Here are just a few of the bullshit reasons you can get "validated" as a gang associate which can land you indefinitely in solitary and for reference killing a guard will get you a MAXIMUM of 5 years in the SHU:

Gang evidence comes in countless forms. Possession of Machiavelli's The Prince, Robert Greene's The 48 Laws of Power, or Sun Tzu's The Art of War has been invoked as evidence. One inmate's validation includes a Christmas card with stars drawn on it—alleged gang symbols—among Hershey's Kisses and a candy cane. Another included a poetry booklet the inmate had coauthored with a validated BGF member. One poem reflected on what it was like to feel human touch after 14 years and another warned against spreading HIV. The only reference to violence was the line, "this senseless dying gotta end."

Oh and here's a nice anecdote: Last year, the journalist and former Iran hostage Shane Bauer toured the Pelican Bay SHU for Mother Jones and found that the conditions there were worse, in some ways, than what's he'd experienced during his 26 months of solitary at Tehran's most notorious political prison.

In some ways WORSE than fucking Iran's worst political prison! Let that really sink in, and tell me how in the hell does that not disgust you?

 

[Darwin333]

btw, you believe that solitary confinement (which is indeed a terrible punishment the way it's often used) is similar to boiling prisoners alive? Or that it's similar to forcing prisoners to fight so guards could bet on them?

There is some doubt as to whether this prisoner was boiled alive but I would say that without a doubt long-term solitary is worse than forcing prisoners to fight. You ask anyone who has spent a year or longer in solitary if they would prefer a beating and I guarantee that 100% of them would take the beating any day of the week. In California jail Pelican Bay I believe the average time a prisoner spends in solitary is 7.5 years, and I can't say this enough the maximum time they can be given in solitary for killing a freaking guard is 5 years, and I can tell you without a moment of hesitation I would rather take 10 beatings than spend 7.5 years in complete and total solitary confinement without even a window.

The guy who spent time in solitary at Iran's worst prison said that he would hope and pray to be interrogated by the freaking Iranians just to have someone to talk to. That's how bad it is.