Question Printing problem with Brother HL-5470dw laser B&W printer

[Paperdoc]

Very glad to hear the problem could be fixed with an adjustment to the printer's settings, rather than a part replacement.

I know you are right about what the Tech Support people know and how they know. For the most part they have limited knowledge - there's just SO much to learn about all the stuff they get calls on - so it makes sense they all are using problem resolution software. Makes it fast to find most solutions, and can be updated for all easily. In general these people are not hired for having advanced knowledge of computer systems before they start the job. But you do get some with that background. My son is one of those - he has a background in Computer Sciece, software development, and communications networks. He works for the local communications company - phone, TV, internet, security, etc. in their Tech Support Dept., and usually is their top guy. (Sorry if that sounds like bragging.) Where I live the major national telecoms do not have a large presence - the market in this city is dominated by a city-owned utility that does a pretty good job. So in our house we have Tech Support available all the time. Our home gigabit ethernet network has a customized router, a couple switches, plus an added high-performance Ubiquiti WiFi Point of Access unit and is fed by gigabit (download) fibre optic cable.

It malkes sense to me that, if one printer can be accessed in two different ways (wired and WiFi) then they will have different IP addresses, and hence the printer management system will recognize them as two different devices. However, once the software tool you used has made the adjustment to the printer's internal settings, they will be permanent no matter which way the printer is accessed. The printer driver in the computer has nothing to do with using that setting for subsequent jobs.

 

[Muse]

Sorry if that sounds like bragging.

Hell, no, you're justifiably proud. Glad to hear it! No small accomplishment. It's challenging, this arena. I like that. There's no limit to what you can accomplish.

 

[Muse]

I suppose that it's necessary to tweak the driver (improving toner fixing) in each of my computers that I use for printing, which is 3 computers. I made that tweak yesterday in all 3 of those computers. I'm curious what that tweak does, I can only guess. Heat the fuser hotter? Make the fuser stay on longer before it shuts off? I don't know much about laser printer technology.

I think, maybe, I can print from my two other computers, but I am not apt to. Not sure they're set up for printing. If so, I should see if I can tweak the driver, however they are Windows XP machines, maybe the driver isn't the same.

 

[Paperdoc]

As I said, I expect that this toner tweaking thing is an adjustment made internally in the printer itself, and is already done. It is NOT a setting within the driver in each computer, I believe. Maybe you could check again with Brother Tech Support to verify that. So you should not have to make that change on every computer you have.

Most printers of this type have a temperature sensor in the fuser area and a target setting in its configuration. I know that my Lexmark unit, from time to time, will pause printing and show a message about taking time to "warm up", then resume work. I presume that means it is increasing the fuser area temperature becasue it fell too low. My guess is that the tweak process you were told to use just increases the temperature target in the printer's internal configuration settings. That sort of change ought to be someting all jobs require and hence ought to be stored in the printer. Re-doing that may only increase that setting again. But that would not be necessary if the toner fusing problem already has been solved, and it would not show up as any further improvement.

 

[Muse]

I know you are right about what the Tech Support people know and how they know. For the most part they have limited knowledge - there's just SO much to learn about all the stuff they get calls on - so it makes sense they all are using problem resolution software. Makes it fast to find most solutions, and can be updated for all easily.

I find it annoying a lot of the time because I know the solutions they are suggesting don't apply to my situation and if they were 1/2 familiar with what they are "supporting" they should already know that. I am patient with them, basically guide them into the realizations they have to have to get somewhere in the support call. Many times the call gets nowhere and I politely end the call. No point in making them feel bad or making myself feel bad for making them feel bad!

 

[Muse]

As I said, I expect that this toner tweaking thing is an adjustment made internally in the printer itself, and is already done. It is NOT a setting within the driver in each computer, I believe. Maybe you could check again with Brother Tech Support to verify that. So you should not have to make that change on every computer you have.

Aha... I suppose that is possible but I have no way of knowing. Well, other than printing from computers on which I have not made the adjustment or calling support as you suggest. I could undo the setting on one computer, or two, actually, then make the setting back on one of those computers and print from the 2nd and see what I get. Crafty.

 

[Muse]

My guess is that the tweak process you were told to use just increases the temperature target in the printer's internal configuration settings. That sort of change ought to be someting all jobs require and hence ought to be stored in the printer. Re-doing that may only increase that setting again. But that would not be necessary if the toner fusing problem already has been solved, and it would not show up as any further improvement.

Are you suggesting that making the setting again, that is to say on a different computer will increase the fuser area temperature a 2nd time, i.e. to a higher setting than the first adjustment? That could be problematic!

 

[Paperdoc]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. But with three reservations.
1. I am NOT positive - that's why I suggested asking Tech Support for confirmation. Or, as you suggest, try undoing via one machine, printing from another, etc.
2. From your post I did not understand that you actually have an option to adjust temperature either up or down. I thought you just hit a button to improve toner adhesion, and the printer did a mystery process. If you DO have up and down choices, then you could experiment as you suggest to find optimum.
3. Even if it's a notch "too high" I doubt that would actually be a problem. Several notches, maybe. The side effect of this process normally is that the paper tends to curl towards the heated side. Paper expands and contracts according to its moisture content. So when you heat (and remove moisture from) one side of a sheet, that whole side tries to shrink, causing curling. This is normal and not a problem with a laser printer that is operating properly. You can see that on every copy. But if the heating were much too high resulting in too much moisture removal, the curl might get objectionable in the copies, and it might even cause the paper to curl up so much that it jams inside the printer. But that would be an extreme case.

 

[Muse]

There's no up/down option. There are 3 mutually exclusive settings for "Other print options":

O Off
O Reduce Paper Curl
O Improve Toner Fixing

Radio buttons. You select one and effectively deselect the others. So, one and only one of those can be in effect. You are suggesting that selecting "Improve Toner Fixing" from a different computer may make an additional boost in toner fixing. I may call them or I may try setting it "Off." Can then make a test print and I'd expect the problem to resurface. Then can set to "Improve Toner Fixing" and test print, which I assume would eliminate the problems. Then, try printing from a different machine and see what I get. If indeed the setting was made in the printer itself, I should see good results from all computers although the setting was made from just one computer.

If I call them, I think I may have difficulty finding someone who knows what's going on. Persistence may get the answer that way. I'd expect to be put on hold while the support person consults hopefully knowledgeable personnel.

 

[Paperdoc]

I agree, you may find it difficult to get someone who really knows the answer you seek. But from what you just said, how about this speculation?
"Off" uses the pre-programmed "Normal" fuser temperature.
"Improve Toner Fixing" uses a higher temperature. BUT it may NOT be additive - it may only activate a single higher fuser temperature, until you opt for the "Off" setting.
"Reduce Paper Curl" may instead set it to a LOWER fuser temperature. Remember what I said about paper curl coming from the heat in the fuser. Again, that may be a single low-temp setting.

IF that is the case, either the "Off" or "Reduce Curl" setting should cause your poor toner fixing to re-appear, and "Improve Fixing" should eliminate it.

In any case, I am re-thinking something. I thought you had done this tweak via menu choices on the printer itself. But re-reading this thread shows me I was wrong - the imprvement setting was done through a configuration menu in Control Panel for that printer. Then you got a prompt that Windows would no longer try to manage the printer details. So now I am not clear at all whether this setting is someting you can manipulate from the printer Properties options (often available in a separate small window reached from a Properties button in the normal Windows Print settings for each job), or whether it is a one-time adjustment through a separate configuration utility accessed only through Control Panel ... Printers ... etc. I guess if you find ways to make the promelm come back and then go away again, you can try to determine whether setting it from one machine will impact all other computers on the network without any other adjustments.

 

[Muse]

I just read your post above. I did an experiment yesterday. Prior to that experiment I had made the Control Panel etc. adjustment to improve toner fixing on 3 different machines, all Windows 10.

My experiment was to use one computer to make the setting to Off, thereby presumably eliminating the toner fixing improvement. The expectation was that problematic printing would result. I printed a page and it had problems. It wasn't terrible but it wasn't really fine as it had been before. Thing is, the printing problems had been variable from day to day, so I figured this certainly confirmed that the problems had been reintroduced. I didn't do anything more yesterday because (1) it's better to let the printer cool down completely before testing and (2) I was gone for part of the day. What I did was reset Improve toner fixing from the same computer I'd used to turn it off and wait a day and print from a computer that hadn't been involved in the experiment. That would test your theory that only one computer is needed to make the adjustment and prints from other computers would come out OK. So, I printed out one page today from this other computer and it looks OK. So, guess you're right. It's still not clear if making the setting from another computer would increase the temperature further. I suppose I can call Brother support and hopefully get to the bottom of the issue. Anyway, I imagine I can continue to print from the various machines and hopefully not see problem prints particularly. I sometimes get wrinkles in pages but it's not common and not terrible. That's probably an entirely different issue and isn't involved in this.

 

[Muse]

I just did an experiment. Turned off Improved Toner Fixing with laptop 1. Went to laptop 2 and checked and saw that Improved Toner Fixing was STILL set to on. Printed from that machine and the print came out fine. I'm sure that if I'd printed from laptop 1 instead, it wouldn't have been alright because I tried that yesterday. So, I have to conclude that the setting is on a machine by machine basis, it's a setting in the driver as configured on that machine. I suppose that means there's no piggy backing settings (i.e. making the setting on a 2nd machine wouldn't increase the adjustment). Do you agree?

I also determined that your guess that the setting might be available within the print dialog itself is true. It can be set while doing a print job.

 

[Paperdoc]

Very nice detective work. You have established that this is a setting that can be set in the printer driver configuration at each print job and each printer separately. So yes, that setting does neeed to be made on every machine that uses the printer. Now, the interesting question is: once set, does it stay that way until changed? Your earlier work using only one or two printers, and accessing this setting through the printer configuration utility within Control Panel, says it will be persistent until changed on that machine. The only remaining question is whether that is the only way to make it persistent, or does it stay that way even if only done on one proint job in the driver's settings tools. Either way you have found your solution and know how those controls work for the future. So, congrats!

 

[Muse]

Very nice detective work. You have established that this is a setting that can be set in the printer driver configuration at each print job and each printer separately. So yes, that setting does neeed to be made on every machine that uses the printer. Now, the interesting question is: once set, does it stay that way until changed? Your earlier work using only one or two printers, and accessing this setting through the printer configuration utility within Control Panel, says it will be persistent until changed on that machine. The only remaining question is whether that is the only way to make it persistent, or does it stay that way even if only done on one proint job in the driver's settings tools. Either way you have found your solution and know how those controls work for the future. So, congrats!

Last time someone said that to me was June 15, 1980. I had found a wallet on the streets of my town a day or so earlier. It was mysterious because the ID of the owner wasn't ascertainable from the contents. Somehow by virtue of something in it I reached a person who told me, "that must be Czeslaw Milosz's wallet." Milosz was a poet, writer, Polish war hero, and in 1980 an American citizen and professor at the University of California at Berkeley (I live in Berkeley). Upshoot was that within a day or so Czeslaw Milosz shows up at my door with his son. "Nice detective work," he said. I hand him his wallet and he handed me a copy of his famous book of poetry, "Bells of Winter." He signed it with the inscription "To <me> grateful for his detective work, Czeslaw Milosz. Berkeley, 15 June 1980." He won the Nobel Prize in literature the following October! Yeah, I still have that book.

OK, so I gather you're wondering if I set Improve Toner Fixing within a print job if it persists. Easily determined. However, if it doesn't, I assume that setting it through Control Panel will make it persist.

 

[Paperdoc]

Thanks for that fascinating story. Good luck!