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Price cuts for 4800 series

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The 4870 512MB is a solid notch above the GTS250 in performance.

i get a Galaxy GTS 250 coming this week to test against my 4750
- i believe it is only the 512mb version and my 4870 is 1GB; but i will test it also at 16x10 and 14x9]

i am curious about GTS 250's overclocking; i know even at stock it beats up on 9800GT

look at the GTS 250 price

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?&Item=N82E16814162029

couple that with a $40 rebate and it looks like a great value

$70 after MiR; take 2 for SLi
- i think maybe Nvidia "wins" in this price range unless 4850 is $70 after MiR also
rose.gif
 
Originally posted by: Wreckage
The GTS250 is generally faster than the 4850. So it's just as fair to say that the GTS250 is competition for the 4870 as it is to say the 4850 is competition for the GTS250.

That's just your personal opinion, using that way of thinking is like saying that the Phenom 2 X4 955 is competition for the Core i7 965. GTS 250 is simply slower than the HD 4870 512MB no matter if it's overclocked, or has 2GB of VRAM, or even if you get a free car with it's purchase. HD 4850 is competition for the GTS 250, period.

GTS 250 512MB vs HD 4850 512MB = From 21 tests, the HD 4850 won 13 tests and the GTS 250 512MB won 8

Source: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3523&p=1

ATi HD 4870 512MB won: 18 tests

GTS 250 won: 3 tests at 2560x1600 at 4xFSAA which scored 4fps more in COD WAW which wasn't enough for better playability since it got 34fps, 5fps more in FallOut 3 which was barely playable at 30fps and 11fps more in Far Cry 2 which still completely unplayable scoring 19fps.

It's a very high resolution setting were the HD 4870 512MB ran out of VRAM, a resolution were enthusiast will not buy a GTS 250 1GB or a HD 4870 512MB, but a GTX 295 or HD 4870X2 or SLI/Crossfire solutions.

GTS 250 doesn't stand a chance against the HD 4870 512MB, period.
 
Originally posted by: evolucion8
Originally posted by: Wreckage
The GTS250 is generally faster than the 4850. So it's just as fair to say that the GTS250 is competition for the 4870 as it is to say the 4850 is competition for the GTS250.

That's just your personal opinion, using that way of thinking is like saying that the Phenom 2 X4 955 is competition for the Core i7 965. GTS 250 is simply slower than the HD 4870 512MB no matter if it's overclocked, or has 2GB of VRAM, or even if you get a free car with it's purchase. HD 4850 is competition for the GTS 250, period.

GTS 250 512MB vs HD 4850 512MB = From 21 tests, the HD 4850 won 13 tests and the GTS 250 512MB won 8

Source: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3523&p=1

ATi HD 4870 512MB won: 18 tests

GTS 250 won: 3 tests at 2560x1600 at 4xFSAA which scored 4fps more in COD WAW which wasn't enough for better playability since it got 34fps, 5fps more in FallOut 3 which was barely playable at 30fps and 11fps more in Far Cry 2 which still completely unplayable scoring 19fps.

It's a very high resolution setting were the HD 4870 512MB ran out of VRAM, a resolution were enthusiast will not buy a GTS 250 1GB or a HD 4870 512MB, but a GTX 295 or HD 4870X2 or SLI/Crossfire solutions.

GTS 250 doesn't stand a chance against the HD 4870 512MB, period.

Look at the price - compare to 4850 where it cleans up:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?&Item=N82E16814162029

couple that with a $40 rebate and it looks like a great value

$70 after MiR; take 2 for SLi
- i think maybe Nvidia "wins" in this price range unless 4850 is $70 after MiR also

http://images10.newegg.com/upl...May19Jun3009lc77us.pdf
 
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: evolucion8
Originally posted by: Wreckage
The GTS250 is generally faster than the 4850. So it's just as fair to say that the GTS250 is competition for the 4870 as it is to say the 4850 is competition for the GTS250.

That's just your personal opinion, using that way of thinking is like saying that the Phenom 2 X4 955 is competition for the Core i7 965. GTS 250 is simply slower than the HD 4870 512MB no matter if it's overclocked, or has 2GB of VRAM, or even if you get a free car with it's purchase. HD 4850 is competition for the GTS 250, period.

GTS 250 512MB vs HD 4850 512MB = From 21 tests, the HD 4850 won 13 tests and the GTS 250 512MB won 8

Source: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3523&p=1

ATi HD 4870 512MB won: 18 tests

GTS 250 won: 3 tests at 2560x1600 at 4xFSAA which scored 4fps more in COD WAW which wasn't enough for better playability since it got 34fps, 5fps more in FallOut 3 which was barely playable at 30fps and 11fps more in Far Cry 2 which still completely unplayable scoring 19fps.

It's a very high resolution setting were the HD 4870 512MB ran out of VRAM, a resolution were enthusiast will not buy a GTS 250 1GB or a HD 4870 512MB, but a GTX 295 or HD 4870X2 or SLI/Crossfire solutions.

GTS 250 doesn't stand a chance against the HD 4870 512MB, period.

Look at the price - compare to 4850 where it cleans up:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?&Item=N82E16814162029

couple that with a $40 rebate and it looks like a great value

$70 after MiR; take 2 for SLi
- i think maybe Nvidia "wins" in this price range unless 4850 is $70 after MiR also

http://images10.newegg.com/upl...May19Jun3009lc77us.pdf

*edit - Your link wasn't working for me earlier, I see it now. And you are right, at $70 that GTS250 is the better buy I would think. That looks to be the 65nm part (which may be a turn off to some people, but we're just talking performance here) so my guess is that we are seeing a 'clearance' price to get rid of older parts. Whatever the reason, that's a very good card for $70 for sure. The closest card AMD has that I see at Newegg is that XFX 4850 I linked which is $15 more, but for that money you get a better warranty and an cooler that looks superior to the reference design. Again, speaking strictly performance I would say that GTS250 is the better buy though.

Unless I am missing something I do not see a $40 MIR. I just see a $109.99 card with free shipping. Screenie of what I see.


On the other hand, this XFX 4850 (with double lifetime warranty) is $85 after mail-in rebate.
 
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: videogames101
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: dguy6789
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: dguy6789


It has already been proven earlier in this thread

I'm not going to get dragged into this as I'm sure it will only get me in trouble. But your opinion is not fact.



Originally posted by: videogames101


Been losing? They gain like 10% Q4 of 2008.

It's 2009 and they lost marketshare last quarter.

Links to cards that you can buy right now at current prices combined with benchmarks isn't my opinion, it's fact. I'll spell it out for you.

4850 = GTS 250. 4850 is cheaper. Win for ATI
4870 1GB = GTX 260 Core 216. The 4870 is cheaper. Win for ATI
4890 = GTX 275. 4890 is cheaper. Win for ATI
4850x2 2GB = GTX 285. 4850x2 2GB is cheaper. Win for ATI
4870x2 is slower than the GTX 295 by 10% at most but is well over $100 cheaper. The 4870x2 has no competition at 2560x1600 with 8x AA from any card nvidia makes for any price. In my opinion this is a win for ATI, but some may disagree so I'll leave this as a tossup.

Now where opinion comes in is why ATI's marketshare is less. You insist it's because ATI has inferior products. I say there's another reason. Reputation, name brand, etc... One need only look at the Athlon 64 and Pentium 4 to show that having a faster and cheaper product alone(even for several years) won't automatically make you have more marketshare than your competitor.

What is this "win for ATi" nonsense if they have not gained marketshare?
Dropping the prices is no win for ATi; it is no win for their partners as they get less profit on each unit sold 😛

- it is a "win" only in the minds of the ATi fans
rose.gif

How many times must I explain, it will take another winning gen to wipe away the portrait of crap that most people remember of ATI from the 3xxx 2xxx series.

Apple doesn't have the best product, but they have the most marketshare on mp3 players.

"another winning generation" ?
:roll:

We don't know that THIS ONE is a "winning generation" - if ATi has not gained marketshare
- they DON'T advertise like Nvidia does !!

Advertising is a far bigger factor, imo .. - there is not much "crap" to forget -3800 series was decent - *only* 2900 was a stumble
- and before it, x1950/1900 were excellent cards

You will never be able to explain it as LONG as they do not gain market share
- there is NO win
rose.gif


It just about gives me an aneurysm trying to figure out how in his mind changing the name of the 9800GTX+ to GTX250 suddenly makes it compete with the 4870, but that's for another thread.

GTS 250 is more than a rebrand - unless you want to also call 4890 a rebranded slightly faster 4870 😛

AFTER THE 48xx RELEASE THEY GAINED MARKET SHARE!

Like, wow, this isn't too hard to understand. I'm now saying the stigma prevents it form going even higher, but it DID rise significantly!
 
Originally posted by: apoppin

GTS 250 is more than a rebrand - unless you want to also call 4890 a rebranded slightly faster 4870 😛

Tell me what the difference is between these two cards please:

EVGA 9800GTX+ 512MB video card.

EVGA GTS250 512MB video card.

I really don't want us to drag this thread any more off subject than it already is, and the rebadge subject has been beaten to death and then some, so I'll just try and let this be my only reply here about it.

For the record I think this rebadge did make sense, the naming is much easier to decipher now by changing the 9800GTX+ name. But I do consider it little more than a rebadge. At least with the 4890 you have physically different GPU's (though the 4890 GPU is very, very closely related and based off of the 4870 GPU) with different speeds and different memory speeds. A different cooler as well.
 
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: evolucion8
Originally posted by: Wreckage
The GTS250 is generally faster than the 4850. So it's just as fair to say that the GTS250 is competition for the 4870 as it is to say the 4850 is competition for the GTS250.

That's just your personal opinion, using that way of thinking is like saying that the Phenom 2 X4 955 is competition for the Core i7 965. GTS 250 is simply slower than the HD 4870 512MB no matter if it's overclocked, or has 2GB of VRAM, or even if you get a free car with it's purchase. HD 4850 is competition for the GTS 250, period.

GTS 250 512MB vs HD 4850 512MB = From 21 tests, the HD 4850 won 13 tests and the GTS 250 512MB won 8

Source: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3523&p=1

ATi HD 4870 512MB won: 18 tests

GTS 250 won: 3 tests at 2560x1600 at 4xFSAA which scored 4fps more in COD WAW which wasn't enough for better playability since it got 34fps, 5fps more in FallOut 3 which was barely playable at 30fps and 11fps more in Far Cry 2 which still completely unplayable scoring 19fps.

It's a very high resolution setting were the HD 4870 512MB ran out of VRAM, a resolution were enthusiast will not buy a GTS 250 1GB or a HD 4870 512MB, but a GTX 295 or HD 4870X2 or SLI/Crossfire solutions.

GTS 250 doesn't stand a chance against the HD 4870 512MB, period.

Look at the price - compare to 4850 where it cleans up:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?&Item=N82E16814162029

couple that with a $40 rebate and it looks like a great value

$70 after MiR; take 2 for SLi
- i think maybe Nvidia "wins" in this price range unless 4850 is $70 after MiR also

http://images10.newegg.com/upl...May19Jun3009lc77us.pdf


something is fishy here. The link to the item doesn't work. Could Newegg have pulled the rebate from the item description? (it appears so). The part# of the Galaxy GTS250 on Newegg is 25SFF6HMUEXI, while the part# on the 4myrebate webiste is 25SFF6HMUEXX. Note the difference in the last letter, I and X.

So the question is, would the Galaxy purchased on Newegg TODAY qualify??? Perhaps Newegg did have such rebate, but what about now??? Why would Newegg NOT list the rebate anymore?

It's too risky here.. but $70 is a good price,.. but i'm thinking Newegg must have pulled it... and I'm not playing the Russian roulette game with the rebate company, especially the part#'s are not the same.

And something else to consider... according to a reviewer who has bought this card on Newegg..:

"THIS CARD USES THE OLD 65nm PROCESS!! It has two power connectors, and thus uses more power than 55nm cards, runs hotter, and will not overclock as well. There are 55nm gts 250s floating around, I guess just not from Galaxy."

Overclocking might not be the same as the 55mm cards.
 
Originally posted by: videogames101
Originally posted by: apoppin

"another winning generation" ?
:roll:

We don't know that THIS ONE is a "winning generation" - if ATi has not gained marketshare
- they DON'T advertise like Nvidia does !!

Advertising is a far bigger factor, imo .. - there is not much "crap" to forget -3800 series was decent - *only* 2900 was a stumble
- and before it, x1950/1900 were excellent cards

You will never be able to explain it as LONG as they do not gain market share
- there is NO win
rose.gif


AFTER THE 48xx RELEASE THEY GAINED MARKET SHARE!

Like, wow, this isn't too hard to understand. I'm now saying the stigma prevents it form going even higher, but it DID rise significantly!

It seems hard for you to comprehend, but they did not 😛

You can scream in caps all you want; *prove it*

Tell me what the difference is between these two cards please:
EVGA 9800GTX+ 512MB video card.

EVGA GTS250 512MB video card.
PM with link to review sent, SlowSpyder
 
Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
Originally posted by: apoppin
Q: What does AMD have against GTX295 - at ANY price point?

A: nothing
2 x 4890's? Nothing that takes up one slot though, I'll give you that.

Will the real single slot card please stand up?

Originally posted by: Creig
Simply having the "HIGH" end is a hollow victory when the GTX 295 is still sitting at $530

NVIDIA actually intended the GTX 295 to hit a $499 price point. Anything above that is either special editions (such as BFG with water block or EVGA with backplate) or reseller gouging, because NVIDIA and manufacturers (well, only speaking for BFG) doesn't make anything more on them.

Why are they selling above MSRP? Frankly it is because they keep selling out.

Price cuts are always exciting events, on both sides of the fence. Regarding this upcoming one from ATI, I'm sure NVIDIA already has several contingency plans. I know of one of them already.
 
There is a 4890 for $149 AR from superbiiz right now. I think that pretty much beats an Nvidia can offer in terms of value. And two in crossfire is faster than a GTX295 - for the cost of only $299 AR.

Nvidia cant really compete with the price war until you can buy a $75 9800gtx+, $120 gtx260, $150 gtx275, $199 GTX285, $350 GTX295
 
In terms of marketshare, AMD needs to seriously do some hardcore advertising like nvidias "way its meant to be played" campaign. when gamers see the nvidia logo on every game they play, they're gonna buy nvidia the next time around.

Most gamers are NOT tech savy, just look at any of the forums for popular games and u'll see ppl asking for hardware advice and getting ridiculous recomendations ("ddr3 because its faster than ddr2", "anything by intel because intel is faster than amd", etc). they just follow the marketing hype, and if AMD is'nt doing any marketing, they shouldnt expect consumers to sift through benchmarks and reviews just to find which card performs best.
ATI marketshare increased when they had their logo all over Halflife 2 & Valve games derived from the source engine, now where have u ever seen an ATI logo on any modern game since AMD aquired them?

people will go w/ a brandname they're familiar with at a pricepoint they're willing to spend money at.
 
Originally posted by: jaredpace
There is a 4890 for $149 AR from superbiiz right now. I think that pretty much beats an Nvidia can offer in terms of value. And two in crossfire is faster than a GTX295 - for the cost of only $299 AR.

Nvidia cant really compete with the price war until you can buy a $75 9800gtx+, $120 gtx260, $150 gtx275, $199 GTX285, $350 GTX295

first of all 2 GTX 275s in SLi will also be faster than a GTX 295 - so what
they and CF 4890 also kick 4870-X2's ass - sandwich cards are not really about "value"

That is silly about "Nvidia can't compete in the price war"
They apparently do not have to nor want to nor do they have excess stock like AMD does

Nvidia does not NEED to lower prices - they keep selling them at higher prices than the ATi cards

OtOH, ATi does cut their profit margin and STILL does NOT gain marketshare

something is wrong with your perception
rose.gif
 
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: jaredpace
There is a 4890 for $149 AR from superbiiz right now. I think that pretty much beats an Nvidia can offer in terms of value. And two in crossfire is faster than a GTX295 - for the cost of only $299 AR.

Nvidia cant really compete with the price war until you can buy a $75 9800gtx+, $120 gtx260, $150 gtx275, $199 GTX285, $350 GTX295

first of all 2 GTX 275s in SLi will also be faster than a GTX 295 - so what
they and CF 4890 also kick 4870-X2's ass - sandwich cards are not really about "value"

That is silly about "Nvidia can't compete in the price war"
They apparently do not have to nor want to nor do they have excess stock like AMD does

Nvidia does not NEED to lower prices - they keep selling them at higher prices than the ATi cards

OtOH, ATi does cut their profit margin and STILL does NOT gain marketshare

something is wrong with your perception
rose.gif

Boss man please stop....

Who has stated that AMD has extra stock? An OEM vendor just stated to me that they have a hard time keeping AMD stock in place. So until you have facts you can not speak in that term.

When was the last piece of information given to you regarding discrete/non-discrete GPU sales?
 
Well, to be fair, companies don't typically start lowering prices if their stock is flying out the door. That would be stupid.
 
Originally posted by: Zstream
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: jaredpace
There is a 4890 for $149 AR from superbiiz right now. I think that pretty much beats an Nvidia can offer in terms of value. And two in crossfire is faster than a GTX295 - for the cost of only $299 AR.

Nvidia cant really compete with the price war until you can buy a $75 9800gtx+, $120 gtx260, $150 gtx275, $199 GTX285, $350 GTX295

first of all 2 GTX 275s in SLi will also be faster than a GTX 295 - so what
they and CF 4890 also kick 4870-X2's ass - sandwich cards are not really about "value"

That is silly about "Nvidia can't compete in the price war"
They apparently do not have to nor want to nor do they have excess stock like AMD does

Nvidia does not NEED to lower prices - they keep selling them at higher prices than the ATi cards

OtOH, ATi does cut their profit margin and STILL does NOT gain marketshare

something is wrong with your perception
rose.gif

Boss man please stop....

Who has stated that AMD has extra stock? An OEM vendor just stated to me that they have a hard time keeping AMD stock in place. So until you have facts you can not speak in that term.

When was the last piece of information given to you regarding discrete/non-discrete GPU sales?

You stop 😛

You are being funny right?
WHO stated it?

read the topic's title & summary

Price cuts for 4800 series
> Making room for DX11 cards

What OEM vendor said to you?
- no nonsense .. who?

Unless you can say, you cannot speak in that term.

When was the last piece of accurate information given you?
:roll:

Vendors would be STUPID to discount stock that they have a hard time keeping in place
- i do not believe your source at all
 
It has already been proven earlier in this thread(read that again, proven, look it up if you don't know what it means) that at every price point aside from the GTX 295(which AMD has nothing that expensive) that ATI has a faster card for the same price or a cheaper and as fast card.

Most of the time they have a part that is almost as fast for a little bit less. In terms of a consumer, if I can pay an extra $5-10 to get a good $50 game tossed into the mix, I normally will. That doesn't just go for ATi v nV, some of the nV vendors are as bad as the red team counterparts with bundles. From a consumer standpoint, value isn't entirely about benches versus dollars spent.

Been losing? They gain like 10% Q4 of 2008.

1%, not 10%. That 1% is also a downward tick versus the previous quarter(up Y/Y). In marketshare terms, the 4x00 line hasn't been a hit in any way at all.

Unless you have a highly nvidia optimized game, ATI wins every price point except ultra high end,

From a real world consumer point of view- XFX GX260NADFF GeForce GTX 260 Core 216 896MB 448-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail- that board comes with FC2 and CoD W@W and sells for $170AR. Anyone that is interested in those games, that is like getting that graphics card for $100. ATi have anything in the $100 bracket that can compete with a C216? I'm not saying you are wrong, but when it comes time to push the order button that certainly would weigh into my decission- and I am quite familiar with all the performance/dollar rates 🙂

HD 4850X2 is faster than the GTX 280 and GTX 285 and yet is cheaper.

The 4850x2 is sometimes faster then a 285, sometimes closer to a GTS 250. Performance is all over the place with that part.

ATi cards has better features like DX10.1 which is a standard and is not a propietary technology which runs on only one family of cards like PhysX which never took off after years of it's introduction

DX10.1 also never took off even years after it was introduced either. When you start getting into the non bench elements, you shouldn't forget to mention nV's clearly superior IQ to go along with the rest- that applies for every game that can use AF.
 
I am not a fan boy of either Nvidia or ATI, my two current systems are a mix of everything.

Intel/Nvidia in one and AMD/ATI in the other, the later being my main gameing rig.

I would concider my AMD/ATI rig to be about as fast a gameing system as you can build, PhII at 4.0ghz (I have found the Corei7 to just be anoying to work with) and 4 4890's at 1ghz. Before you make the point, yes I know CFX allmost never works, but when it does its amazing and from working with my Nvidia box runnning 3 GTX260's, it works a hell of a lot more then Tri SLI does.

I look at the current gen this way.

The 4XXX line of cards caught Nvidia totaly offguard, the GT200 line of cards were not as fast as the world and ATI expected and to be honest gave me a lot of HD2900XT flashbacks, that being a MASSIVE GPU that is not as fast as it looks to be on paper.

I am by no means saying that the GTX2XX cards are slow or anything, but they are not as fast as I expected. Nivida fans boys will say that "its faster then ATI". But it SHOULD BE, Nvida had a near 1 year lead over ATI (8800GTX launch 11/06 vs 11/07 for the 3870) and now comeing into the DX11 gen they are going to be close to 3 months behind ATI, maybe more.

Sure maybe Nvidia has not lost much market share, but are they makeing that much money off these cards ? I don't have anything to prove how much each GPU costs ATI or Nvidia, but based only off the size of the GPU it's self, I expect Nvida is not makeing as much, sure 55nm helped a bit, but selling a large pizza for the same cost as your main competor is selling a small pizza just does not seem like the best way to make money.

As for this ongoing idea that Nvidia has the high end on lock, I am not sure that is the truth.

I guess if you are saying that the high end is one single card, then yes Nvidia has the fastest single GPU on the planet. However the real high end is in SLI and CFX, and there things start to turn for the green camp.

For the high end you can put 2 GTX295's in Quad SLI, 3 GTX285's in Tri SLI or 4 4890's in CFX. I myself don't have any GTX295's to bench to text what I am going to say next, but I suspect that 4 4890's will distory 2 GTX295's and 3 GTX285 at super high res, which is the only time you would need this kind of power.

I know that if you are thinking of that kind of a setup the cost is not going to really matter much but incase it does.

4 x $184.99 (50mhz overclocked 4890 on the Egg) = 739.96

3 x $314.99 (stock clocked GTX285 from a brand i would never buy on the Egg) = 944.97

2 x $529.99 (stock clocked GTX 295 on the Egg) = 1059.98

So the top Nvidia setup will cost you 320.02 more then the top ATI setup, both setups are totaly totaly pointless, and really need more driver and game dev support to be worth the money. But as Nvidia fan boys allways have to point out that Nvidia is what you want if you simply want the most power I had to point this out... ATI currently has the mostpowerfull setup you can build and it costs you 320.02 less then what Nvidia can offer.

All you Nvidia fan boys should spend less time hateing ATI for makeing the Nvidia stuff you bough less overpriced and more time infront of your Green Team shrines praying that Nvidia can build a good DX11 GPU by the end of the year.

My end point is that price drops are good for EVERYONE that is planning to ever buy a video card .. ever. ATI has done something amazing, givin us the ablity to play games at high res with everything turned on, on a video card that costs under $200. The 4870, regardless of your feelings on ATI, changed the way video cards will be priced from now on. High end cards for under $200, theres really nothing not to like about that.

Not totaly off topic BUT as some one brought it up

DX10.1 also never took off even years after it was introduced either. When you start getting into the non bench elements, you shouldn't forget to mention nV's clearly superior IQ to go along with the rest- that applies for every game that can use AF.

Nvidia is soon to launch some DX10.1 parts, its a steping stone twords DX11, sure Nvidia is REALLY late to the DX10.1 party, thus meaning they will be rather late to the DX11 party as well. Allso DX10.1 is not useless, anyone who has played FarCry 2 with the DX10.1 patch on a ATI card knows this.
 
Nvidia is soon to launch some DX10.1 parts, its a steping stone twords DX11, sure Nvidia is REALLY late to the DX10.1 party, thus meaning they will be rather late to the DX11 party as well. Allso DX10.1 is not useless, anyone who has played FarCry 2 with the DX10.1 patch on a ATI card knows this.

DX10.1 gives a performance bump. Doesn't matter who has it or doesn't, it is at best a marginal feature set offering a moderate performance increase. I was pointing out DX10.1 didn't take off as someone else mentioned that PhysX hadn't- neither of them have. CUDA, if you are looking for video transcoding help it is certainly a worthwhile feature, or if you are big into folding performance, other then that I would agree that it isn't an important feature for consumers atm either.

BTW- What mobo are you using to run 4x 4890s?
 
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Most of the time they have a part that is almost as fast for a little bit less. In terms of a consumer, if I can pay an extra $5-10 to get a good $50 game tossed into the mix, I normally will. That doesn't just go for ATi v nV, some of the nV vendors are as bad as the red team counterparts with bundles. From a consumer standpoint, value isn't entirely about benches versus dollars spent.

Yeah, ATi indeed need to promote with better bundles.

1%, not 10%. That 1% is also a downward tick versus the previous quarter(up Y/Y). In marketshare terms, the 4x00 line hasn't been a hit in any way at all.

The HD4x00 series are far from a failure, is a feat being able to be profitable after so many loses and gained market share last Q42008 and being able to keep it even with the market crysis.

The 4850x2 is sometimes faster then a 285, sometimes closer to a GTS 250. Performance is all over the place with that part.

Wrong, the HD 4850X2 when it has scaling issues where only 1 GPU works, is still faster than the GTS 250, unless if you are talking about the HD 4850X2 1GB version which has 512MB per GPU and runs out of VRAM in very high resolutions.

DX10.1 also never took off even years after it was introduced either. When you start getting into the non bench elements, you shouldn't forget to mention nV's clearly superior IQ to go along with the rest- that applies for every game that can use AF.

ATi has superior Anti Aliasing and better 8x Anti Aliasing performance, also offers AAA in OpenGL and there is more DX10.1 games than GPU accelerated PhysX games.

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
DX10.1 gives a performance bump. Doesn't matter who has it or doesn't, it is at best a marginal feature set offering a moderate performance increase. I was pointing out DX10.1 didn't take off as someone else mentioned that PhysX hadn't- neither of them have. CUDA, if you are looking for video transcoding help it is certainly a worthwhile feature, or if you are big into folding performance, other then that I would agree that it isn't an important feature for consumers atm either.

BTW- What mobo are you using to run 4x 4890s?

DX10.1 is what makes DX10 usable from a performance perspective. I don't call a 30% boost in performance a moderate one, is considerably better, specially when Crossfire is used. DX10.1 was introduced with Vista SP1 last year, so stop spreading FUD, PhysX has been in the market for more than 3 years and yet, is a feature which gives you a performance hit since most games using that technology are artificially single threaded so it won't benefit from multi core CPU's to force you to buy nVidia GPU's and doesn't change your inmersion in game. DX10.1 can give your better graphics with better performance. CUDA may help for video encoding, but you have to pay for the program, ATi has Stream support and it's AVIVO encoder is free and faster!! Usually the issues with AVIVO are related to codec conflicts like with the Haali Media Splitter.
 
Originally posted by: apoppin
You stop 😛

You are being funny right?
WHO stated it?

read the topic's title & summary

Price cuts for 4800 series
> Making room for DX11 cards

What OEM vendor said to you?
- no nonsense .. who?

Unless you can say, you cannot speak in that term.

When was the last piece of accurate information given you?
:roll:

Vendors would be STUPID to discount stock that they have a hard time keeping in place
- i do not believe your source at all

So basically you have no source or proof. Not even an insider poke. Go figure, your always speaking in terms of fact when they are just down right opinions. Oh and the vendor was HP.
 
The HD4x00 series are far from a failure, is a feat being able to be profitable after so many loses and gained market share last Q42008 and being able to keep it even with the market crysis.

Never said it was a failure, I said it was far from a hit.

Wrong, the HD 4850X2 when it has scaling issues where only 1 GPU works, is still faster than the GTS 250

You type English, so I assume you can read it? I said it was closer to a GTS250 then a GTX28x, which is correct- I never said the GTS250 was faster nor implied it in any way 🙂

ATi has superior Anti Aliasing and better 8x Anti Aliasing performance, also offers AAA in OpenGL and there is more DX10.1 games than GPU accelerated PhysX games.

Superior AA? I'd say toss up at best. nV's SS modes are overall better then ATi's and while the AAA support under OpenGL is nice, what's the last OGL title you bought? As far as DX10.1, list them all off. The length of the list will be very close to hardware based PhysX games. Neither 10.1 nor PhysX are that important.

DX10.1 is what makes DX10 usable from a performance perspective.

ATi's performance isn't that horrible.

I don't call a 30% boost in performance a moderate one, is considerably better,

That performance gain is given in the benches, people don't get another "30%"- I'll also say that I'm pretty sure for every game that you can show that offers a 30% bump using 10.1 there is a counterpart running PhysX showing more then 100% improvement.

DX 10.1 specs from August..... of 2006

is a feature which gives you a performance hit since most games using that technology are artificially single threaded

Wow, just wow. Seriously man, that is flat out laugh out loud stupid. A P3 1GHZ would rape GTX 295s in single threaded performance- absolute slaughter.

CUDA may help for video encoding, but you have to pay for the program, ATi has Stream support and it's AVIVO encoder is free and faster!!

Don't read the PR, look at the results. nVidia is still wiping the floor with ATi in no uncertain terms in video transcoding. There are a lot of people that don't care about it which makes it a non factor for them. It appears ATi put more effort into the press release about their video transcoding efforts then the software.
 
Originally posted by: apoppin


Tell me what the difference is between these two cards please:
EVGA 9800GTX+ 512MB video card.

EVGA GTS250 512MB video card.
PM with link to review sent, SlowSpyder

I don't have any PM's... I can give you a hint though, there is no difference other than the stickers. 😉
 
Personally, I agree the XFX for $15 more would be better since it's double lifetime warranty and it's the 1GB model. But for those that are on a strict budget or don't need more than 512MB, the HIS would work well.

I never thought to see a 4870 under $100. Personally, I was amazed when the 4850 dipped into the double-digit price range. But a 4870?

 
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