Prewar Iraq - what was that connection to terrorism again?

[Pandaren]

I keep hearing again and again on TV ads (swing state of PA) from the Bush campaign saying that the war in Iraq is part of the war on terrorism, but I still don't see any connection between prewar Iraq and terrorism against the United States.

From http://www.georgewbush.com/Security/

Supported by coalition allies, the men and women of our Armed Forces have brought Saddam Hussein ? a declared enemy of America and supporter of terrorism who had the capability and a proven willingness to produce and use weapons of mass destruction ? to justice. The brutal regime of Saddam Hussein is gone. An interim government is leading the Iraqi people to freedom.

(1) Saddam was clearly a bad guy and not on our side (since he was no longer useful against fundamentalists, like, say Iran), but how was he worse than Iran or North Korea?

(2) Supporter of terrorism? Saddam Hussein is said to have given money to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers against Israel. But Saddam Hussein was also a secularist dictator who was the enemy of Islamic fundamentalism (Iran). I doubt he would have harbored people who were just as much out to get him as they were out to get the U.S..

(3) The postwar hunt for weapons shows that Hussein didn't have the capability to produce WMD. No links to al-Queda or groups out to get the US have been shown.

Saddam Hussein was contained and his military crumbling and weakened. I don't see how removing him when we did made the US more secure against radical Islamic fundamentalists. The Islamic fundamentalists hate the US because they think we defiled their holy lands in Saudi Arabia, and becuse we are supporters of Israel. The Hussein regime, on the other hand, was secularist and materialist (look at all the ridiculous palaces, excessive luxury Saddam and his cronies lived in, and Saddam had radical clerics like al Sadr (the father of Moqtada) murdered). There's just no connection between Hussein and radical Islamic terrorists, other than that they both have or had hatred of the US.

So I ask Conservatives - what was the connection between Hussein and radical fundamentalist Islam? Where was the alliance? Where were the weapons? Where was the threat?

I just don't see it.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Pandaren
I keep hearing again and again on TV ads (swing state of PA) from the Bush campaign saying that the war in Iraq is part of the war on terrorism, but I still don't see any connection between prewar Iraq and terrorism against the United States.

From http://www.georgewbush.com/Security/

Supported by coalition allies, the men and women of our Armed Forces have brought Saddam Hussein ? a declared enemy of America and supporter of terrorism who had the capability and a proven willingness to produce and use weapons of mass destruction ? to justice. The brutal regime of Saddam Hussein is gone. An interim government is leading the Iraqi people to freedom.

(1) Saddam was clearly a bad guy and not on our side (since he was no longer useful against fundamentalists, like, say Iran), but how was he worse than Iran or North Korea?

(2) Supporter of terrorism? Saddam Hussein is said to have given money to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers against Israel. But Saddam Hussein was also a secularist dictator who was the enemy of Islamic fundamentalism (Iran). I doubt he would have harbored people who were just as much out to get him as they were out to get the U.S..

(3) The postwar hunt for weapons shows that Hussein didn't have the capability to produce WMD. No links to al-Queda or groups out to get the US have been shown.

Saddam Hussein was contained and his military crumbling and weakened. I don't see how removing him when we did made the US more secure against radical Islamic fundamentalists. The Islamic fundamentalists hate the US because they think we defiled their holy lands in Saudi Arabia, and becuse we are supporters of Israel. The Hussein regime, on the other hand, was secularist and materialist (look at all the ridiculous palaces, excessive luxury Saddam and his cronies lived in, and Saddam had radical clerics like al Sadr (the father of Moqtada) murdered). There's just no connection between Hussein and radical Islamic terrorists, other than that they both have or had hatred of the US.

So I ask Conservatives - what was the connection between Hussein and radical fundamentalist Islam? Where was the alliance? Where were the weapons? Where was the threat?

I just don't see it.

Because it's not there.

 

[her209]

Maybe he would pass nukes onto his Iranian friends

 

[Pandaren]

I don't know if I'll be able to get a straight answer from supporters of the war.

I cannot get a straight answer from ANYONE in my hometown supporting Bush. Nobody can answer what the immediate threat was, what the connection between Saddam and Radical Islam was, and where the weapons are.

It comes down to this I think - Bush talks tough, we beat the crap out of Iraq, and lots of people feel good about it.

 

[Infohawk]

The connection exists deep in the mind of a Saddam who may or may not have thought of hooking up with terrorists a parrallel universe.

Translation: there is no connection.

 

[raildogg]

we failed in postwar Iraq, thanks in large part to Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz.

these 2 pushed people like Shinseki and White, who are now retired, aside. Shinseki and White called for large numbers of troops to secure the "peace". Wolfowitz basically said that if you think more troops are needed for security than the actual war, then you are a fool. Also, Tommy Franks at first wanted more troops, but under pressure from Rumsfeld, he decided to go along.

thanks to Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz, our Iraq postwar plan is a failure. i supported the war, but Rummy needs to be held accountable

 

[Krk3561]

Ahh ignorance is great isnt it?

Soon after September 11, 2001, two Iraqi defectors came forward, explaining that Iraqi intelligence had trained non-Iraqi Arab militants at itsextensive compound at Salman Pak, an area south of Baghdad. Among the skills taught there was hijacking airplanes. One defector even drew a sketch of the area, showing a passenger plane parked in the southwest corner of a large compound.

When American marines took over Salman Pak in early April 2003, they indeed
found the terrorist training camp, the airplane, and the foreign terrorists.
An American military spokesman affirmed, "The nature of the work being done
by some of those people we captured. ..gives us the impression that there is
terrorist training that was conducted at Salman Pak." The marines "inferred"
that the airplane "was used to practice hijacking," the Associated Press
reported. Saddam's apologists claim the camp was for counterterrorism
training, but that seems highly improbable.

Iraqi documents, dating from January to May 1993, suggest that Baghdad's
training of terrorists goes back over a decade - at least to the period
following Iraq's August 1990 invasion of Kuwait. That training was
interrupted by the 1991 war, but appears to have resumed not long
afterwards.

These documents, leaked by a Pentagon official to Scott Wheeler of Cybercast
News Service, are posted on its Web site. Bruce Tefft, a retired CIA
counter-terrorism official who worked on Iraq; MEMRI's Nimrod Raphaeli;
Middle East scholar Walid Phares; and this author have all expressed their
confidence in the documents' authenticity. They are on official Iraqi
letterhead and are essentially a 40-page correspondence between Iraqi
intelligence and Saddam's office.

Responding to a request from Saddam, M-14, the division of Iraqi
intelligence responsible for training and conducting special operations,
produced a report dated April 1, 1993. The seven page document lists 100
"Arab fedayeen," whom it had trained in Iraq during the fall of 1990.Their
nationalities include a wide swath of the Arab world: Palestinians, Syrians,
Lebanese, Egyptians, Moroccans, Tunisians, Sudanese, and Eritreans, who are
not usually considered Arab.

One important relationship discussed in the documents is Iraq's support for
the militant domestic opponents of the Egyptian government, a key Arab
member of the 1990-91 coalition against Iraq. Three weeks prior to the
Persian Gulf War, on December 24, 1990, Iraqi intelligence concluded an
agreement on a plan of sabotage against Cairo with a representative of the
Egyptian Islamic Group, whose leader, Shaykh Omar Abdul Rahman, was
subsequently tried and convicted for terrorism in New York. Those operations
ended with the February 28, 1991, cease-fire, according to these papers.

---

An 11-page document dated January 25, 1993, lists various organizations with
which Iraqi intelligence maintained contacts. It recommends "the use of Arab
Islamic elements which were fighting in Afghanistan and now have no place to
go and who are currently in Somalia, Sudan, and Egypt." Saddam approves the
suggestion, with the order to "concentrate on Somalia."

The document also mentions a group called Hezb-e-Islami, headed by Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. Noting that Iraqi intelligence established a relationship with this party in 1989, the document states that Iraq now had a direct relationship with Hekmatyar. This man was, in turn, an important ally of Osama bin Ladin. In a terrorism case in Chicago, the U.S. Attorney's Office affirmed, "Hekmatyar was aligned with Osama bin Ladin in Afghanistan after al Qaida was formed in 1988, and indeed many of al Qaida's camps were located in territory controlled by Hekmatyar."

The report of the Iraq Survey Group presents further evidence of Iraq's
involvement in hostile activities. It includes the most comprehensive
account of the Iraqi Intelligence Service ever published in open-source
literature, depicting an organization that consisted of "over twenty
compartmentalized directorates." Section M-14 included the "Tiger Group" -
"primarily composed of suicide bombers. "It also supervised the "Challenge
Project," a highly secretive enterprise involved with explosives, about
which the Iraq Survey Group could learn little. Another section - M-21 - was
formed in 1990 to create explosive devices for Iraqi intelligence. Its
chemistry department developed explosive materials; its electronics
department prepared timers and wiring; and its mechanical department
produced igniters and designed the bombs.

This picture shows the substantial, longstanding involvement of Iraq's
intelligence services in terrorist training and support operations,
including collaboration with Islamic militants. Its activities were
infinitely more sophisticated than anything that was taught to the
mujahideen fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan. This underscores just how
odd it is that our default explanation for terrorism has now become Al
Qaida - which did not have a chemistry department, one of countless points
that distinguishes that organization from the intelligence service of a
major terrorist state.

 

[Krk3561]

Originally posted by: Pandaren

(2) Supporter of terrorism? Saddam Hussein is said to have given money to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers against Israel. But Saddam Hussein was also a secularist dictator who was the enemy of Islamic fundamentalism (Iran). I doubt he would have harbored people who were just as much out to get him as they were out to get the U.S..

Are you ignorant? Theyre not fundamentalists, they hate Jews and Israel, thats why they blow themselves up, to kill Israelis. Saddam also hates Jews and Israel. In fact he has many times expressed this publicly. In fact he sent missles to Israel in the first Gulf War. There are actual pictures of the checks written to Palestinian terrorists who committed homicide bombings on Israeli citizens from ?President Saddam Hussein?s Grant.?

You

Are

An

Idiot

 

[Engineer]

Wow...I'll send that to the Bush/Cheney Camp. They'll be thrilled. They can then take back ALL of the statements lately stating that no connections were found.

Do you have one that I can send on the WMD's?


P.S. Calling people idiots? You forgot the arrow pointing to yourself in your first line of your first post! :roll:

 

[Krk3561]

Originally posted by: Engineer
Wow...I'll send that to the Bush/Cheney Camp. They'll be thrilled. They can then take back ALL of the statements lately stating that no connections were found.

Do you have one that I can send on the WMD's?


P.S. Calling people idiots? You forgot the arrow pointing to yourself in your first line of your first post! :roll:

No direct connections to Al Queda in the 9/11 attacks, not to terrorism, its not disputed...

"I must say I have trouble understanding the flack over this. The vice president is saying, I think, that there were connections between al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein's government. We don't disagree with that. What we have said is... we don't have any evidence of a cooperative, or a corroborative relationship between Saddam Hussein's government and these al-Qaeda operatives with regard to the attacks on the United States. So it seems to me the sharp differences that the press has drawn, the media has drawn, are not that apparent to me."
- Lee Hamilton, 9/11 Commission Vice Chairman, 06/17/04

Don't speak if you dont know your facts

 

[NeoV]

don't your hands get tired clinging to that rope Krk?

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Krk3561
Are you ignorant? Theyre not fundamentalists, they hate Jews and Israel, thats why they blow themselves up, to kill Israelis. Saddam also hates Jews and Israel. In fact he has many times expressed this publicly. In fact he sent missles to Israel in the first Gulf War. There are actual pictures of the checks written to Palestinian terrorists who committed homicide bombings on Israeli citizens from ?President Saddam Hussein?s Grant.?

Your forgot Iran.

 

[Kibbo]

There was little direct threat, military or terrorist, from Iraq to the United States. And, the more important fact, is that Iraq did not pose the GREATEST threat to the United States.

Even given this, there are a few reasons to invade Iraq.

1. Saddam funded terrorism in Israel, an ally of the United States.
2. Saddam had openly defied the US in the past, and remained belligerent. A show of force may quiet other belligerents and intimidate other potential enemies.
3. Having a base of operation in the centre of the Middle East will help strategically. It borders Syria, and with Afghanistan it sandwiches Iran (can you say two front war?)

1. did not change with 9/11
2+3 are blatantly imperialistic.

 

[Aimster]

Saddam wasn't even a Muslim. By definition sure, but he didn't practice it. He didn't have any Islamic laws in his country. Now look at Iraq. These fanatics are loose and are trying to turn it into an Iran. He cannot possibly have any direct ties to Al Qaeda. They hate our way of life. They must have hated Saddams.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Kibbo
There was little direct threat, military or terrorist, from Iraq to the United States. And, the more important fact, is that Iraq did not pose the GREATEST threat to the United States.

Even given this, there are a few reasons to invade Iraq.

1. Saddam funded terrorism in Israel, an ally of the United States.
2. Saddam had openly defied the US in the past, and remained belligerent. A show of force may quiet other belligerents and intimidate other potential enemies.
3. Having a base of operation in the centre of the Middle East will help strategically. It borders Syria, and with Afghanistan it sandwiches Iran (can you say two front war?)

1. did not change with 9/11
2+3 are blatantly imperialistic.

1) He gave $30,000 to each suicide bombers family. Their house was destroyed by Israel so they built a new house with that money. He didn't give them weapons he gave the family of the DEAD suicide bomber money. Anyone can debate this, but argue this one : Iran gives millions to Hezbollah and has troops/weapons in Lebanon (far more than Iraq).
2) Saddam had no army left. It's like me beating up a 6th grader.
3) U.S bases now in reach of neighboring country's artillery. It doesn't sandwich Iran unless you go to war. Iran was never an ally of the Taliban/Saddam and I doubt any of their material passed thru there.

 

[Pandaren]

The Palestinian group Hamas is a radical Islamic group. I already addressed Saddam's support of suicide bomber families.

Your personal attacks against me (bolded below) are unwarranted and against the forum rules. I am asking any mod reading this to ban you for at least a week. :|

And you forgot a link to a source on your first post. That's called plagiarism.

Edit - Your response doesn't include an answer (and reliable sources to back it up) to any of the questions I posed earlier.

Originally posted by: Krk3561
Are you ignorant? Theyre not fundamentalists, they hate Jews and Israel, thats why they blow themselves up, to kill Israelis. Saddam also hates Jews and Israel. In fact he has many times expressed this publicly. In fact he sent missles to Israel in the first Gulf War. There are actual pictures of the checks written to Palestinian terrorists who committed homicide bombings on Israeli citizens from ?President Saddam Hussein?s Grant.?

You

Are

An

Idiot

 

[Krk3561]

Originally posted by: Pandaren
The Palestinian group Hamas is a radical Islamic group. I already addressed Saddam's support of suicide bomber families.

Your personal attacks against me (bolded below) are unwarranted and against the forum rules. I am asking any mod reading this to ban you for at least a week. :|

And you forgot a link to a source on your first post. That's called plagiarism.

Edit - Your response doesn't include an answer (and reliable sources to back it up) to any of the questions I posed earlier.

Originally posted by: Krk3561
Are you ignorant? Theyre not fundamentalists, they hate Jews and Israel, thats why they blow themselves up, to kill Israelis. Saddam also hates Jews and Israel. In fact he has many times expressed this publicly. In fact he sent missles to Israel in the first Gulf War. There are actual pictures of the checks written to Palestinian terrorists who committed homicide bombings on Israeli citizens from ?President Saddam Hussein?s Grant.?

You

Are

An

Idiot

Oh noes!!!!!11111

Cry me a river.

I hope the author sues me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas

Hamas, acronym of Harakat al-Muqawamah al-Islamiyyah (Arabic: Islamic Resistance Movement, Hamas is also Arabic for 'Zeal') is a Palestinian Islamist paramilitary and political organization. It was founded by Ahmed Yassin and Mohammad Taha in late 1987 as an outgrowth of the Muslim Brotherhood and is dedicated to the destruction of Israel and the creation of an Islamic state in Palestine. Hamas is led by Khaled Mashaal. Hamas' stronghold is the Gaza Strip, but it also operates in the West Bank.

Hamas is considered a terrorist organization by many countries, including United States, the European Union, and Israel. Part of its support rests on its provision of welfare and charity for the Palestinian poor as well as its militant views. Hamas is known in the West for using the tactic of suicide bombing against Israel, especially targeting civilians in busy city areas. Hamas also attacks the Israeli military and security forces in its effort to drive them from the West Bank and Gaza strip, and ultimately to eliminate the state of Israel and replace it with an Islamic state.

Kinda seems similar to the intentions of Saddam, no?

Read this article http://www.israeltoday.co.il/D...tentID=15&tabid=36:

The Palestinians Lament Saddam?s Capture

The stunning pictures of captured Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein shocked?and shamed?the Arab world. The Christian West was again victorious over the Islamic East?a symbolic defeat that Moslems find difficult to swallow. After all, with the help of Allah, Islam is supposed to vanquish the infidels.

Saddam was widely admired in the Arab world as a courageous and heroic leader, unafraid of standing up to all-powerful America. He considered himself a descendent of the mighty Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar (see the book of Daniel).

The only Arabs who celebrated Saddam?s capture were Iraqis because they had personal experience of the terrible suffering he inflicted. It is believed that he killed and tortured between 200,000 and 300,000 of his own people!

The Arabs who were most upset about Saddam?s capture were the Palestinians, who deeply revered him. After all, he fired 39 Scud missiles at Israel during the first Gulf War in 1991.

Not only that, Saddam was a great Palestinian benefactor. Families of suicide bombers were rewarded with $10,000 checks, a small fortune in the impoverished Palestinian territories. And if the Israeli army destroyed the home of a bomber, his family would receive $25,000. For the Palestinians, Saddam was the only Arab leader who did more than pay lip service to their cause. He put his money where his mouth is.

At the same time, Palestinians were shocked that their hero did not choose to die with honor as a ?martyr.? ?How could he let himself be captured by the Americans?? asked Wahil from the village of Tuba. ?He would not have brought shame upon us if he had taken his own life or at least been killed in a
battle with American troops.?

1) I dont dispute that Iran and NK are both rogue states that need to be delt with

2) I think I answered that one. Read the Senate report, plently of links to terrorism including Al Queda, in fact 46 pages of it!

Here is the link:
http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_rpt/ssci_links.pdf

3) I think I answered the Al-Queda question above.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...s/A38650-2004Jul9.html:

the committee found no evidence that the intelligence community?s mischaracterization or exaggeration of intelligence on Iraq?s weapons of mass destruction capabilities was the result of politics or pressure.

 

[Mayax]

Has John Edwards ever told us what the immediate threat was?

He made that claim about Iraq too.

 

[Krk3561]

Sen. Edward Kennedy in September 2002:

We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: Krk3561

Originally posted by: Pandaren
The Palestinian group Hamas is a radical Islamic group. I already addressed Saddam's support of suicide bomber families.

Your personal attacks against me (bolded below) are unwarranted and against the forum rules. I am asking any mod reading this to ban you for at least a week. :|

And you forgot a link to a source on your first post. That's called plagiarism.

Edit - Your response doesn't include an answer (and reliable sources to back it up) to any of the questions I posed earlier.

Originally posted by: Krk3561
Are you ignorant? Theyre not fundamentalists, they hate Jews and Israel, thats why they blow themselves up, to kill Israelis. Saddam also hates Jews and Israel. In fact he has many times expressed this publicly. In fact he sent missles to Israel in the first Gulf War. There are actual pictures of the checks written to Palestinian terrorists who committed homicide bombings on Israeli citizens from ?President Saddam Hussein?s Grant.?

You

Are

An

Idiot

Oh noes!!!!!11111

Cry me a river.

I hope the author sues me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas

Hamas, acronym of Harakat al-Muqawamah al-Islamiyyah (Arabic: Islamic Resistance Movement, Hamas is also Arabic for 'Zeal') is a Palestinian Islamist paramilitary and political organization. It was founded by Ahmed Yassin and Mohammad Taha in late 1987 as an outgrowth of the Muslim Brotherhood and is dedicated to the destruction of Israel and the creation of an Islamic state in Palestine. Hamas is led by Khaled Mashaal. Hamas' stronghold is the Gaza Strip, but it also operates in the West Bank.

Hamas is considered a terrorist organization by many countries, including United States, the European Union, and Israel. Part of its support rests on its provision of welfare and charity for the Palestinian poor as well as its militant views. Hamas is known in the West for using the tactic of suicide bombing against Israel, especially targeting civilians in busy city areas. Hamas also attacks the Israeli military and security forces in its effort to drive them from the West Bank and Gaza strip, and ultimately to eliminate the state of Israel and replace it with an Islamic state.

Kinda seems similar to the intentions of Saddam, no?

Read this article http://www.israeltoday.co.il/D...tentID=15&tabid=36:

The Palestinians Lament Saddam?s Capture

The stunning pictures of captured Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein shocked?and shamed?the Arab world. The Christian West was again victorious over the Islamic East?a symbolic defeat that Moslems find difficult to swallow. After all, with the help of Allah, Islam is supposed to vanquish the infidels.

Saddam was widely admired in the Arab world as a courageous and heroic leader, unafraid of standing up to all-powerful America. He considered himself a descendent of the mighty Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar (see the book of Daniel).

The only Arabs who celebrated Saddam?s capture were Iraqis because they had personal experience of the terrible suffering he inflicted. It is believed that he killed and tortured between 200,000 and 300,000 of his own people!

The Arabs who were most upset about Saddam?s capture were the Palestinians, who deeply revered him. After all, he fired 39 Scud missiles at Israel during the first Gulf War in 1991.

Not only that, Saddam was a great Palestinian benefactor. Families of suicide bombers were rewarded with $10,000 checks, a small fortune in the impoverished Palestinian territories. And if the Israeli army destroyed the home of a bomber, his family would receive $25,000. For the Palestinians, Saddam was the only Arab leader who did more than pay lip service to their cause. He put his money where his mouth is.

At the same time, Palestinians were shocked that their hero did not choose to die with honor as a ?martyr.? ?How could he let himself be captured by the Americans?? asked Wahil from the village of Tuba. ?He would not have brought shame upon us if he had taken his own life or at least been killed in a
battle with American troops.?

1) I dont dispute that Iran and NK are both rogue states that need to be delt with

2) I think I answered that one. Read the Senate report, plently of links to terrorism including Al Queda, in fact 46 pages of it!

Here is the link:
http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_rpt/ssci_links.pdf

3) I think I answered the Al-Queda question above.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...s/A38650-2004Jul9.html:

the committee found no evidence that the intelligence community?s mischaracterization or exaggeration of intelligence on Iraq?s weapons of mass destruction capabilities was the result of politics or pressure.

Is there any link to 9/11 and Iraq?

I'll give you a cookie if you can give me the answer.

 

[Alistar7]

"Prewar Iraq - what was that connection to terrorism again?"

Putin: Russia Told U.S. of Saddam Terror Plans

http://www.npr.org/templates/s...ry.php?storyId=1964156

"Russian President Vladimir Putin says that after Sept.11, but before the war in Iraq, Russia gave the Bush administration intelligence suggesting Saddam Hussein planned terrorist attacks on U.S. territory."

That good enough? Does this mean we can finally stop hearing there was no connection to terrorism and Saddam? You would think the links to the PLO would be enough....

 

[Krk3561]

Originally posted by: Tabb
Is there any link to 9/11 and Iraq?

I'll give you a cookie if you can give me the answer.

No, and I never claimed that, or ever believed there ever was

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Saddam wasn't even a Muslim. By definition sure, but he didn't practice it. He didn't have any Islamic laws in his country. Now look at Iraq. These fanatics are loose and are trying to turn it into an Iran. He cannot possibly have any direct ties to Al Qaeda. They hate our way of life. They must have hated Saddams.

Huh?

Man, I am so tired of this Saddam was secular crap being completely distorted into "Saddam had nothing to do with Islam whatsoever." Saddam spouted the Islamic party line just like any other despot in the ME. If you ever read of of his speeches translated into English, every other line ended "praise be to Allah." Many of his laws were based on Islam because in a predominantly Islamic country he would not have been able to survive being a self-appointed president for a month without cow-towing to the religion.

Hell, he wasn't even actually secular. He kept religious leaders out of his government simply out of paranoia and because of his maniacal ego, to prevent anyone from becoming more important than himself.

There were always fanatics in Iraq and Saddam used them when it served his purpose to do so. To claim otherwise is pure ignorance.

 

[Krk3561]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Aimster
Saddam wasn't even a Muslim. By definition sure, but he didn't practice it. He didn't have any Islamic laws in his country. Now look at Iraq. These fanatics are loose and are trying to turn it into an Iran. He cannot possibly have any direct ties to Al Qaeda. They hate our way of life. They must have hated Saddams.

Huh?

Man, I am so tired of this Saddam was secular crap being completely distorted into "Saddam had nothing to do with Islam whatsoever." Saddam spouted the Islamic party line just like any other despot in the ME. If you ever read of of his speeches translated into English, every other line ended "praise be to Allah." Many of his laws were based on Islam because in a predominantly Islamic country he would not have been able to survive being a self-appointed president for a month without cow-towing to the religion.

Hell, he wasn't even actually secular. He kept religious leaders out of his government simply out of paranoia and because of his maniacal ego, to prevent anyone from becoming more important than himself.

There were always fanatics in Iraq and Saddam used them when it served his purpose to do so. To claim otherwise is pure ignorance.

Their flag even said "Praise be to God" on it in arabic (Allah Akbar)

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: Krk3561

Originally posted by: Tabb
Is there any link to 9/11 and Iraq?

I'll give you a cookie if you can give me the answer.

No, and I never claimed that, or ever believed there ever was

Yes, there are infact connections between Iraq and Terrorism, I am still waiting for proof that familes actually did receive payment for indiviuals who blew themsleves up. Saddam wasn't a religious man, but he did infact use religion to enforce his law.