Prevent applications from restarting XP

[Sir Fredrick]

In this case, the dialog box did not have a "cancel" option. End tasking it allowed it to still force a reboot. I could have dragged the window off to the side, but it still would have been sitting there taking up memory and occupying space on my already crowded task bar.

Windows update is the only one that has ever rebooted my pc without even prompting, or at least I can't remember any others that have done that at the moment.

 

[theAnimal]

Try Shutdown Stopper.

 

[Sir Fredrick]

Shutdown stopper is a neat idea, but not exactly what I want (and in this case it would not have worked). It's basically the same thing as having a word document open, and then when you're prompted to save or cancel, you just choose cancel.

I did that, and it just killed word without saving the document (fortunately, wasn't anything important).

Here's how I did it:

Control Panel -> Administrative Tools -> Local Security Policy -> Local Policies -> Shut down the system

Open and remove all users.

If you are logged in, you are not allowed to reboot the computer, therefore no other applications are allowed to either. That means that now, to reboot, you have to log off and then shut down.

It's one extra step to prevent rogue apps from rebooting without your permission, but it seems to work.

I did a windows update and agreed to reboot - it did not reboot. I downloaded a few applications which are supposed to let you - among other things - reboot. Still did not reboot.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: Sir Fredrick
In this case, the dialog box did not have a "cancel" option. End tasking it allowed it to still force a reboot. I could have dragged the window off to the side, but it still would have been sitting there taking up memory and occupying space on my already crowded task bar.

Windows update is the only one that has ever rebooted my pc without even prompting, or at least I can't remember any others that have done that at the moment.

So that's your solution - drag the window that prompts you to reboot elsewhere (or just put it in the background) and then when you really do want to reboot, click OK in the dialog box.

The 'memory' it takes up, on a modern machine with over 256M, is inconsequential and not worth even debating.

You've already been given the fix for Windows Update doing exactly what you told it to do - you need to tell it not to reboot your PC.

Couldn't be easier. Next issue?

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: Sir Fredrick
Shutdown stopper is a neat idea, but not exactly what I want (and in this case it would not have worked). It's basically the same thing as having a word document open, and then when you're prompted to save or cancel, you just choose cancel.

I did that, and it just killed word without saving the document (fortunately, wasn't anything important).

Here's how I did it:

Control Panel -> Administrative Tools -> Local Security Policy -> Local Policies -> Shut down the system

Open and remove all users.

If you are logged in, you are not allowed to reboot the computer, therefore no other applications are allowed to either. That means that now, to reboot, you have to log off and then shut down.

It's one extra step to prevent rogue apps from rebooting without your permission, but it seems to work.

I did a windows update and agreed to reboot - it did not reboot. I downloaded a few applications which are supposed to let you - among other things - reboot. Still did not reboot.

That's an amazing amount of trouble to stop Windows from doing exactly what you've told it to do, but if it works for you, perhaps that will help someone else out there too.

 

[Sir Fredrick]

You don't seem to understand the point. Some of us are used to having complete control over our systems. Dragging a window off the screen is not a satisfactory solution.

The fact that someone else has written a program to do this is a good indication that I'm not the only one who's annoyed by this. In fact, several of my coworkers have complained of it too.

It bit one on the ass when he was updating a server. I will admit that he was foolish for updating in the middle of the day, but the point remains, we should have complete control over the system. If we don't want it rebooting, we should be able to prevent it from doing so. Fortunately, we can.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: Sir Fredrick
You don't seem to understand the point. Some of us are used to having complete control over our systems. Dragging a window off the screen is not a satisfactory solution.

The fact that someone else has written a program to do this is a good indication that I'm not the only one who's annoyed by this. In fact, several of my coworkers have complained of it too.

It bit one on the ass when he was updating a server. I will admit that he was foolish for updating in the middle of the day, but the point remains, we should have complete control over the system. If we don't want it rebooting, we should be able to prevent it from doing so. Fortunately, we can.

You have complete control over your system. In fact, you have so much control that you are allowed to run a program that can reboot your machine, especially if you click a little button explicitly telling it to do so. In other words, if you tell your system to reboot, or if you run a program telling your computer to reboot, it will do so.

Frankly, I still don't see the problem.

 

[TGS]

Don't update any software until you are ready to have a reboot. Disable auto update. Between those two options, nothing will reboot your computer short of a trojan.

Or

Install OpenBSD, and get happy.

All your problems stem from updating software when you don't/aren't ready to reboot. Windows/WinApps are sometimes like that. Nero says you have to reboot to use the program, I never do and have yet to have any problems.

 

[Sir Fredrick]

Originally posted by: dclive

You have complete control over your system. In fact, you have so much control that you are allowed to run a program that can reboot your machine,

Problem was, I didn't want program to have > control over my system than I do. I don't see why that's hard to understand.

especially if you click a little button explicitly telling it to do so.

If you had read my original post, you would know that the reason why it pissed me off was because it rebooted even when I did NOT click any button telling it to do so.

In other words, if you tell your system to reboot, or if you run a program telling your computer to reboot, it will do so.

Obviously. This is the default behavior and it is correct. But it should also be possible to prevent that behavior from happening. There are situations when a computer should NOT be rebooted no matter what a user does; no matter what program they run.

Fortunately, it is, using the fix I discovered and posted.

Frankly, I still don't see the problem.

Frankly, I don't see why you're participating in this thread.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: Sir Fredrick

Originally posted by: dclive

You have complete control over your system. In fact, you have so much control that you are allowed to run a program that can reboot your machine,

Problem was, I didn't want program to have > control over my system than I do. I don't see why that's hard to understand.

Rest assured no program has that, as long as you log in as admin, excluding some malware.

especially if you click a little button explicitly telling it to do so.

If you had read my original post, you would know that the reason why it pissed me off was because it rebooted even when I did NOT click any button telling it to do so.

I've asked that you send me a link or information on this program that didn't even inform you it was rebooting your machine. You didn't. I can't believe such a program exists. Typically they'll state something like "Click OK to reboot your system", and hence, you've given permission to reboot your system. In fact, you wrote:
>>Windows update is the only one that has ever rebooted my pc without even prompting,

..and we already told you how to fix that... so it seems like the problem is resolved?

In other words, if you tell your system to reboot, or if you run a program telling your computer to reboot, it will do so.

Obviously. This is the default behavior and it is correct. But it should also be possible to prevent that behavior from happening. There are situations when a computer should NOT be rebooted no matter what a user does; no matter what program they run.

Fortunately, it is, using the fix I discovered and posted.

That's crazy. Explicitly ignore what an administrator tells it to do? What's the point of logging in as administrator then? Wouldn't it then be best to log in as a user and let someone more familiar with how computers work log in as administrator to perform maintenance? I suppose you could have a "Maintenance" group that has permission to reboot the machine, but frankly, that should be the Administrators group.

Anyway, perhaps you can see why these changes would be counterproductive for the vast majority of users (can you imagine the confusion!) - but it's great that Windows gives you the flexibility to make these changes.

Frankly, I still don't see the problem.

Frankly, I don't see why you're participating in this thread.

[/quote]

I don't think there is a problem for most users, which is what I was trying to discover.

 

[Sir Fredrick]

Originally posted by: dclive
Rest assured no program has that, as long as you log in as admin, excluding some malware.

Are you a programmer? I am. If malware can do it, any program can do it.

I've asked that you send me a link or information on this program that didn't even inform you it was rebooting your machine. You didn't. I can't believe such a program exists. Typically they'll state something like "Click OK to reboot your system", and hence, you've given permission to reboot your system. In fact, you wrote:

I did. It was the software that comes with the Rio Nitrus. It does inform you that it will reboot your machine, but does not give you an option to stop it from doing so, and even killing it does not prevent it from rebooting your machine. I do not call that giving it permission to reboot.

>>Windows update is the only one that has ever rebooted my pc without even prompting,

..and we already told you how to fix that... so it seems like the problem is resolved?

I already posted my resolution to the problem quite some time ago.

That's crazy. Explicitly ignore what an administrator tells it to do? What's the point of logging in as administrator then? Wouldn't it then be best to log in as a user and let someone more familiar with how computers work log in as administrator to perform maintenance? I suppose you could have a "Maintenance" group that has permission to reboot the machine, but frankly, that should be the Administrators group.

Considering that anyone NOT logged onto the machine can reboot it, this isn't preventing anyone from doing maintenance. It's not a perfect fix, but it's the only way I know of to prevent an application from rebooting your machine even if you haven't given it permission to do so.

Frankly, I still don't see the problem.

Frankly, I don't see why you're participating in this thread.

I don't think there is a problem for most users, which is what I was trying to discover.[/quote]

I never said it was a problem for most users. I said it was a problem for me.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: Sir Fredrick

Originally posted by: dclive
Rest assured no program has that, as long as you log in as admin, excluding some malware.

Are you a programmer? I am. If malware can do it, any program can do it.

Of course. But the fact is that programs don't. They prompt you, and when you click OK or FINISH, they reboot the box.

I've asked that you send me a link or information on this program that didn't even inform you it was rebooting your machine. You didn't. I can't believe such a program exists. Typically they'll state something like "Click OK to reboot your system", and hence, you've given permission to reboot your system. In fact, you wrote:

I did. It was the software that comes with the Rio Nitrus. It does inform you that it will reboot your machine, but does not give you an option to stop it from doing so, and even killing it does not prevent it from rebooting your machine. I do not call that giving it permission to reboot.

You were prompted per page 9 of your Nitrus manual. What other notification should there be? If you say OK, it will reboot. If you don't want it to reboot, don't click OK until the next "reboot time" you've set aside.

Considering that anyone NOT logged onto the machine can reboot it, this isn't preventing anyone from doing maintenance. It's not a perfect fix, but it's the only way I know of to prevent an application from rebooting your machine even if you haven't given it permission to do so.

Anyone not logged into the machine can reboot it? Not without appropriate access or a poorly patched box.

You keep repeating this "even if you haven't given it permission to do so", yet clearly, you have given it permission to do so - so why do you write that? I think what you want to do is to be able to click a box saying "Yes, reboot my machine!" while having the application/operating system do nothing. Hopefully you can see how confusing that would be for users. The point of the application install is to ... install the app (or in your case, a device driver) -- and if it wants users to reboot (due to replacing active files, hitting pending file rename tables, or whatnot) they should reboot....and they should be reminded to reboot. But the user does have the option to ignore that reboot notice and not reboot.

 

[TGS]

As said previous, make a generic user account. Log in as Generic User 1234.

If Windows Updates is disabled, nothing can be installed while you are logged in as Generic User. When you are completely certain, and have had a lengthy discussion with <insert deity of your choosing> use the Runas function to install programs *Fully aware that installing programs can and will reboot with/without a prompt to do so*.

This is why *nix machines typically are recommended to be logged in as Generic User 1234. You avoid issues with user level permissions by defaulting into a peon account, that can't take the system down intentionally/unintentionally.

By logging in as an account that has Administrator priviledges, you are giving yourself too much control. Put down the reins of power and use GU1234. You'll thank me later.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: TGS
As said previous, make a generic user account. Log in as Generic User 1234.

If Windows Updates is disabled, nothing can be installed while you are logged in as Generic User. When you are completely certain, and have had a lengthy discussion with <insert deity of your choosing> use the Runas function to install programs *Fully aware that installing programs can and will reboot with/without a prompt to do so*.

This is why *nix machines typically are recommended to be logged in as Generic User 1234. You avoid issues with user level permissions by defaulting into a peon account, that can't take the system down intentionally/unintentionally.

By logging in as an account that has Administrator priviledges, you are giving yourself too much control. Put down the reins of power and use GU1234. You'll thank me later.

Good advice - and agreed. But he's explicitly installing software, which requires Admin rights (device drivers)... so he'll get the prompt to reboot when he does that.

 

[TGS]

Originally posted by: dclive

Originally posted by: TGS
As said previous, make a generic user account. Log in as Generic User 1234.

If Windows Updates is disabled, nothing can be installed while you are logged in as Generic User. When you are completely certain, and have had a lengthy discussion with <insert deity of your choosing> use the Runas function to install programs *Fully aware that installing programs can and will reboot with/without a prompt to do so*.

This is why *nix machines typically are recommended to be logged in as Generic User 1234. You avoid issues with user level permissions by defaulting into a peon account, that can't take the system down intentionally/unintentionally.

By logging in as an account that has Administrator priviledges, you are giving yourself too much control. Put down the reins of power and use GU1234. You'll thank me later.

Good advice - and agreed. But he's explicitly installing software, which requires Admin rights (device drivers)... so he'll get the prompt to reboot when he does that.

Thats were the conversation with the deity comes into play. If you log in as a basic user, and HAVE to converse with your almighty <insert deity here>, She/He/It/Them should tell you you are going into troubled waters and may require a reboot.

If you skip the conversation with <insert diety here>, you will just end up in <insert bad place here>.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: TGS
Thats were the conversation with the deity comes into play. If you log in as a basic user, and HAVE to converse with your almighty <insert deity here>, She/He/It/Them should tell you you are going into troubled waters and may require a reboot.

If you skip the conversation with <insert diety here>, you will just end up in <insert bad place here>.

LOL. Good advice.

 

[Smilin]

That's the problem arguing with idiots. They'll drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

 

[Sir Fredrick]

Originally posted by: TGS
As said previous, make a generic user account. Log in as Generic User 1234.

If Windows Updates is disabled, nothing can be installed while you are logged in as Generic User. When you are completely certain, and have had a lengthy discussion with <insert deity of your choosing> use the Runas function to install programs *Fully aware that installing programs can and will reboot with/without a prompt to do so*.

This is why *nix machines typically are recommended to be logged in as Generic User 1234. You avoid issues with user level permissions by defaulting into a peon account, that can't take the system down intentionally/unintentionally.

By logging in as an account that has Administrator priviledges, you are giving yourself too much control. Put down the reins of power and use GU1234. You'll thank me later.

First, I am a domain user, second, without administrator priveliges, I would not have access to things that I need to do.

 

[Sir Fredrick]

Another example of a program not prompting and then rebooting:

Uninstall services for unix. Even with reboot permissions explicitly denied to all logged on users, it rebooted my machine when the uninstall was complete. No prompting.

Of course. But the fact is that programs don't. They prompt you, and when you click OK or FINISH, they reboot the box.

But you should also have the ability to prevent them from doing so.

Anyone not logged into the machine can reboot it? Not without appropriate access or a poorly patched box.

At the log in screen, one of the options is shut down. Since shut down permissions are being denied only to users, anyone not logged onto the machine, and thus viewing the log in screen, can reboot it.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: Sir Fredrick
Another example of a program not prompting and then rebooting:

Uninstall services for unix. Even with reboot permissions explicitly denied to all logged on users, it rebooted my machine when the uninstall was complete. No prompting.

That's false. It clearly asks you to restart "You must restart your system for the configuration changes..." and there is a Y/N prompt. Saying N lets you restart later.

Of course. But the fact is that programs don't. They prompt you, and when you click OK or FINISH, they reboot the box.

But you should also have the ability to prevent them from doing so.[/quote]

If you click RESTART, that's *exactly* what a program should do.

Anyone not logged into the machine can reboot it? Not without appropriate access or a poorly patched box.

At the log in screen, one of the options is shut down. Since shut down permissions are being denied only to users, anyone not logged onto the machine, and thus viewing the log in screen, can reboot it.
[/quote]

So change the local system policy to prevent that.

 

[Sir Fredrick]

That's false. It clearly asks you to restart "You must restart your system for the configuration changes..." and there is a Y/N prompt. Saying N lets you restart later.

I assure you, I just did it and there was no prompting. Mind you, I did the unattended uninstall, but there were no warnings in the help docs that it would reboot the machine.

Of course. But the fact is that programs don't. They prompt you, and when you click OK or FINISH, they reboot the box.

But you should also have the ability to prevent them from doing so.

If you click RESTART, that's *exactly* what a program should do.[/quote]

Reading comprehension not your forte? Have you not read what I've said several times now? Even when you don't click RESTART, some programs STILL reboot the machine. If you click the X in the upper right hand corner, or if you end task it, that should not be considered giving it permission to restart your machine.

Anyone not logged into the machine can reboot it? Not without appropriate access or a poorly patched box.

At the log in screen, one of the options is shut down. Since shut down permissions are being denied only to users, anyone not logged onto the machine, and thus viewing the log in screen, can reboot it.

So change the local system policy to prevent that.[/quote]

Now I know you're lacking some reading comprehension skills. I specifically stated earlier that I wanted it that way so that it is still possible to reboot the machine but so that it would prevent most applications from being able to reboot it.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: Sir Fredrick

That's false. It clearly asks you to restart "You must restart your system for the configuration changes..." and there is a Y/N prompt. Saying N lets you restart later.

I assure you, I just did it and there was no prompting. Mind you, I did the unattended uninstall, but there were no warnings in the help docs that it would reboot the machine.

OMFG

This has got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever read.

WTF do you think "unattended" means? JHFC it means IT WON'T PROMPT. If it did it wouldn't very well be unattended would it? Services for unix is ...wait for it... A SERVICE!!! You think you can strip out a service from the registry without a reboot? Of course not. The computer needs rebooted for this to take effect. This is why it PROMPTS you for a reboot. However, if you specifically tell it: 1) Definately don't prompt me, and 2) Definately take this service out. WTF do you think it's gonna do?

Gawd this thread is so retarded. Of course I can't seem to get this through your thick skull and you're going to respond all offended like.

I think you just want to gripe. Yep that's it. I mean how often does this really happen to you? It seems like you are going to great lengths to do stupid things then get all bitchy when you get stupid results. Do you get upset about having a wet handkerchief? Then stop wiping the drool off your chin. If it bugs you the computer reboots, stop doing things to make it reboot. It's not like it has a mind of it's own. You have to tell it what to do you know.

 

[Sir Fredrick]

I know that unattended means it won't prompt. But it doesn't necessarily mean it'll reboot your machine, either.

 

[Sir Fredrick]

I came here with a simple question, not to bitch or whine.

This used to be a place to come for help and advice on how to do things or prevent your computer from doing things you didn't want to. Apparently now it's a place for people to come and criticize you for wanting to do certain things.

 

[casper114]

I have had to reboot the computer before i could do several things.