Incorruptible
Lifer
- Apr 27, 2012
- 10,086
- 58
- 86
Wow, that's a whole lotta tu quoque bullshit repeated over and over again.
Like I said, let's see what an expert says:
https://respectfulinsolence.com/201...to-pass-the-cruel-sham-known-as-right-to-try/
Nope, I don't sound like an anti-vaxxer. I'm not trying to support laws that allow hucksters to skirt the scientific process. In fact, I am exactly the opposite.
Fact: The "right to try" law allows drug sellers and people selling them to skit the scientific process. Period. Full fucking stop.
You are literally supporting the most anti-science president in history signing a law that allows the side stepping of the scientific process in medicine to sell desperate people unproven, untested drugs, the vast majority of which, would and could never pass testing.
Well this expert disagrees and I didn't have to go with Pence and the Koch brothers.
Dunning Kruger unless one knows their subject and then a shill. I want to see particulars but if the NYT is correct that's already above "snake oil".
Fork in this thread, topic is over as far as useful discussion.
I could not disagree more. The last weeks and months of life are almost always the hardest usually on the family, friends and caregivers. If you have ever been involved with end of life palliative care of a loved one you might understand that keeping someone alive so that the family can have them for a few more weeks, should be meet with jail time for inflicting that on someone who cant fight back. I say as soon as a terminal diagnosis is given the gloves should come off and everything experimental should be tried. If they are cured, fucking great! If not and they die sooner it saves everyone the pain and suffering of a drawn out death.To be all serious, the real problem here is that there is real question about how desperation affects the choice of treatments. Experimental treatments are experimental because we don't know if they work, and how well they do. Who exactly is going to get to decide what is a legitimate 'experimental treatment' that has some chance at helping and what is profiteering off of desperation.
Desperate people can be easy marks for unethical people, and they can do a lot of harm to desperate people and their families, not the least by convincing them to attempt ineffective 'treatments' that at best do nothing, and at worst are actively harmful to their condition. You might think it doesn't matter because they are already terminal, but believe me to them and their family those extra weeks or months matter.
I was waiting until I read the rest of the posts and was going to post something like this. Adding a payment to the family, and not just pennies would eliminate some of the concerns others are posting here.I would support this if the treatments had no costs attached. If they dying are being used as beta testers for the drugs, they are providing a benefit to the company, not the other way around. If anything, the companies should pay the dying for being their lab rats.
Good, If people want to try these experimental drugs then they should be able to. The big government idiots aren't going to like this but too bad for them.
Just fucking great. This combined with the disastrous FDA disclaimer abdication of responsibility given to snake oil salesmen will make it even MORE open season on the desperate and scientifically illiterate.
Trump seems to feel that the government should never stand between a con man and his mark.
FFS November cannot come soon enough.
You can argue about who profits but non the less it will propel new drugs forward, I guess you can think of it as a lottery ticket, best case scenario this may cure you, worst case you have donated your life towards the science of curing others.
I could not disagree more. The last weeks and months of life are almost always the hardest usually on the family, friends and caregivers. If you have ever been involved with end of life palliative care of a loved one you might understand that keeping someone alive so that the family can have them for a few more weeks, should be meet with jail time for inflicting that on someone who cant fight back. I say as soon as a terminal diagnosis is given the gloves should come off and everything experimental should be tried. If they are cured, fucking great! If not and they die sooner it saves everyone the pain and suffering of a drawn out death.
You can argue about who profits but non the less it will propel new drugs forward, I guess you can think of it as a lottery ticket, best case scenario this may cure you, worst case you have donated your life towards the science of curing others.
I don't see how it will propel new drugs forward. These sort of unregulated trials already happen in other countries, if any of those drugs actually showed any promise they would be known. The internet is a hell of a information resource. The fact is what it is really going to do is give bad actors a license to con people while doing nothing for those seriously interested in helping people.
What I expect to see is a bunch of drugs will enter Phase 1 trials, be sold to the public at huge profit with no intention to ever going into phase 2 and 3. For drugs already intended for terminal conditions this might even become the preferred method. Clinical trials are super expensive. If they are no longer needed to sell the drugs it will remove a lot of the reason to do them, especially if the company has reason to believe that those drugs are going to have serious side effects.
You assume that A) there will be no oversight and any tom dick or harry can hand a pill to someone. 2) that these trials will come at a cost. I can tell you from watching my father, grandfather, 3 uncles a brother and a sister in law die of cancer, there is no peacefulness involved in the shutting down of organs and the slow crushing death of cancer. I'm not sure where you worked in hospice but it must be in some fantasy land. So long as the drugs are free in every way shape and form, the treatment is not designed to cause more harm then good, and the patient is of a sound enough mind to willingly commit to it, I see no reason why it matters what is in it. If it's at a cost them I'm of the same mind as you.I have worked hospice, and I have personally lost loved ones to cancer. Sometimes it is terrible, sometimes it is peaceful.
The problem with statements like "everything experimental should be tried" is that you are assuming that the people pushing these treatments have good intentions. They do not. More often than not those pushing 'alternative treatments' are con artists that care nothing at all about the misery that their products produce. They are literally sociopaths. They are out to bilk their marks of every last cent and they will promise anything to get that last dollar from their terrified and desperate targets. They leave families devastated both emotionally and financially because they promise amazing results that never come but often appear to be just around the corner due to placebo effects and hidden pain killers in their products, and cost everything the family can cough up. These people encourage the families to mortgage their homes and sell their possessions because their loved one just needs a few more treatments, of what ultimately turns out to be snake oil. The families are then unprepared when their loved one ultimately passes because they have been given false hope by a con man trying to get a little more money from them.
Hey, Amused...I'm not amused by this post. Apparently, you do not like alternatives, which could save people's lives. Not every cancer patient fits into the same tried and failed treatment plan. I just lost my step mom a couple weeks ago, because, she was not allowed to step out of the square. I'm not saying she would have survived with an alternative, but at least she could have tried. She could have had other options. How is that problematic for you?
And there is cancer for profit. Some evil bastards don't ever want it to be cured, because treatment, from onset to the grave, is oh, so profitable. Even some of those bastards don't mind coughing up their lungs, as long as they have money. Yes, the problem with curing cancer, is that it will rip a huge profit margin away from certain doctors and, God forbid, they might have their lear jet or Mercedes G-Wagon repo'd.
Hey, Amused...I'm not amused by this post. Apparently, you do not like alternatives, which could save people's lives. Not every cancer patient fits into the same tried and failed treatment plan. I just lost my step mom a couple weeks ago, because, she was not allowed to step out of the square. I'm not saying she would have survived with an alternative, but at least she could have tried. She could have had other options. How is that problematic for you?
And there is cancer for profit. Some evil bastards don't ever want it to be cured, because treatment, from onset to the grave, is oh, so profitable. Even some of those bastards don't mind coughing up their lungs, as long as they have money. Yes, the problem with curing cancer, is that it will rip a huge profit margin away from certain doctors and, God forbid, they might have their lear jet or Mercedes G-Wagon repo'd.
FFS, I have no problem with people trying early stage drugs if all other alternatives have failed. But this goes way beyond that and lets people start pushing garbage remedies that never have a chance of working to desperate people.
You last paragraph is just nutter bull shit.
\So long as the drugs are free in every way shape and form ... If it's at a cost them I'm of the same mind as you.
BTW Trump mentioned that thanks to signing this bill drug companies were going to cut prices bigly. Who is ready for the winning?
Yep. Companies already have a few hundred or more million out of pocket already. Considering there's very few who would qualify then no one is going to make a profit. The fairest thing would for the cost of manufacturing alone to be reimbursed, but again I think this should be paid by Uncle Sam.They'll be incredibly expensive,
