President of Poland Killed in Plane Crash in Russia

[Aegeon]

Except there is a significant benefit for Russia. Many of the key leaders against the Communist Party passed away in that crash.

You can clarify this one, but frankly there are huge number of political leaders opposed to the Communist Party in Poland. In fact, many of the key individuals within the Polish government were not on the flight, such as the more powerful Prime Minister as I previously noted. (Even when you throw in the members of the Sejim, with the a total of 460 members and people with similar views likely to get elected the benefit isn't there.) Getting rid of a few critics is clearly not worth the risks involved, while you'd be looking at very petty revenge as the other possible motivation while Russia would putting itself at risk of genuinely basically becoming an international pariah state if they were caught causing the crash. (Its not even like the flight was confined to politicians and military leadership, but also included journalists and a variety of other civilians.)

 

[theeedude]

It's a terrible tragedy, but you guys are crazy if you think Russians organized this. Nuts.

 

[DesiPower]

Neo KGB Strikes again

 

[her209]

It's a terrible tragedy, but you guys are crazy if you think Russians organized this. Nuts.

Or maybe it was the Polish intelligence agency who organized this to make it look like the Russians organized this.

:sneaky:

 

[theeedude]

Most likely it's his own Polish insecurity against Russians that did him in. He was going to stand up to those Russians ordering him around like he's their vassal. Unfortunately the Russians he picked to stand up to were air traffic controllers ordering him to not land in thick fog.

 

[lsquare]

There is nothing inherently unsafe about an aircraft of that vintage if it has been properly maintained, and the reports are that this particular aircraft had recently been through a full inspection with engine overhauls and a new upgrade avionics package.
It was indeed unwise to put that many high-ranking government officials on a single aircraft of any vintage or condition.

How do you know for sure that the aircraft has been properly maintained? You ever wonder why no major airline buys Russian aircrafts? The Polish government should have bought a safer plane to transport VIPs like the President of the country. There's no reason why they shouldn't have bought a Boeing or an Airbus aircraft. Hopefully the Polish government will take this as a lesson and buy at least one safer aircraft. There's no reason why they can't afford one Airbus or Boeing airplane.

 

[lsquare]

You can clarify this one, but frankly there are huge number of political leaders opposed to the Communist Party in Poland. In fact, many of the key individuals within the Polish government were not on the flight, such as the more powerful Prime Minister as I previously noted. (Even when you throw in the members of the Sejim, with the a total of 460 members and people with similar views likely to get elected the benefit isn't there.) Getting rid of a few critics is clearly not worth the risks involved, while you'd be looking at very petty revenge as the other possible motivation while Russia would putting itself at risk of genuinely basically becoming an international pariah state if they were caught causing the crash. (Its not even like the flight was confined to politicians and military leadership, but also included journalists and a variety of other civilians.)

You're absolutely right. I'm glad the Prime Minister wasn't on the plane. He holds real power in the country. The Presidency in Poland is more of a symbolic position similar to the monarch in the UK. Not that today's event wasn't tragic enough, but it would have been an even greater tragedy if Donald Tusk was killed.

In my opinion, the Russians must allow a complete and thorough investigation to dispel any rumors of foreign involvement in this tragedy. Anything less and people will conclude that there might be secret Russian involvement. The question is whether the Russians are prepared to allow such an investigation take place.

 

[gevorg]

http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...-skrzypek-was-often-at-odds-with-cabinet.html

zloty vs. euro, hmmmmmm.............

 

[theeedude]

How do you know for sure that the aircraft has been properly maintained? You ever wonder why no major airline buys Russian aircrafts? The Polish government should have bought a safer plane to transport VIPs like the President of the country. There's no reason why they shouldn't have bought a Boeing or an Airbus aircraft. Hopefully the Polish government will take this as a lesson and buy at least one safer aircraft. There's no reason why they can't afford one Airbus or Boeing airplane.

Not going to argue with the safety benefits of more modern, western planes, but I don't think that was deciding factor in this tragedy. The provincial Smolensk airport is not equipped with ILS (instrument landing system) that these modern planes would use, and that his plane would be able use if airport was equipped with them, which is why the plane was redirected to another airport. It was EXTREME FOLLY to attempt to land there in heavy fog against the warnings of ground control in ANY plane.

 

[theeedude]

You're absolutely right. I'm glad the Prime Minister wasn't on the plane. He holds real power in the country. The Presidency in Poland is more of a symbolic position similar to the monarch in the UK. Not that today's event wasn't tragic enough, but it would have been an even greater tragedy if Donald Tusk was killed.

In my opinion, the Russians must allow a complete and thorough investigation to dispel any rumors of foreign involvement in this tragedy. Anything less and people will conclude that there might be secret Russian involvement. The question is whether the Russians are prepared to allow such an investigation take place.

This one I agree with 100%. Russians investigators should be working together with Polish investigators and independent observers who will certify the investigation is not politicized.
The other question is whether the Poles are ready for such an investigation. It may show that their president ordered his pilots to land in unsafe conditions resulting in deaths of dozens of people.

 

[lsquare]

Not going to argue with the safety benefits of more modern, western planes, but I don't think that was deciding factor in this tragedy. The provincial Smolensk airport is not equipped with ILS (instrument landing system) that these modern planes would use, and that his plane would be able use if airport was equipped with them, which is why the plane was redirected to another airport. It was EXTREME FOLLY to attempt to land there in heavy fog against the warnings of ground control in ANY plane.

Currently we're relying on the Russians' side of the story. How do we know for sure that what they said is indeed the truth? Obviously the weather was an issue, but can we be absolutely certain that the pilots ignored the warnings?

 

[theeedude]

Currently we're relying on the Russians' side of the story. How do we know for sure that what they said is indeed the truth? Obviously the weather was an issue, but can we be absolutely certain that the pilots ignored the warnings?

I would think something like which air fields have ILS and which don't is very well documented.
The weather reports are also in the public domain and available to pilots.
Dense Fog + attempting to land in an airport not equipped with ILS = STUPID, REGARDLESS of what the Russians' side of the story is.

 

[Brovane]

To me this just seems a classic case of "Getthereitis". The pilots of planes carrying national leaders are under intense pressure to land at there original destination regardless of weather and also land on-time. I remember watching a documentary on "Air Force One" and the pilot talking about how they cannot afford to divert because of weather etc. They have to land on-time and at there destination regardless of conditions on the ground. However at some point you have to question this because under extreme conditions things can get very dangerous as we have seen in this tragedy. I can only hope the pilots of Air Force One would know when to call it day and divert.

 

[Chaotic42]

:'(

 

[Jadow]

I will have a polish dog at Sams Club in his honor this week

 

[lsquare]

I'm having a little difficulty getting over this. First, I have to say I'm not Polish just in case anyone's wondering. It's so ironic that the country's leadership/elite gets killed trying to commemorate a massacre in which the country's previous leadership/elite were killed in Russian territory. What's even crazier is how they all died at a similar location. Can anyone here think of an event in history that's similar to this?