President of Poland Killed in Plane Crash in Russia

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her209

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/world/europe/11poland.html

President of Poland Killed in Plane Crash in Russia

MOSCOW — A plane carrying the Polish president, Lech Kaczynski, his wife and other high-ranking officials crashed in a heavy fog in western Russia on Saturday morning, killing all aboard, Polish officials said.

...

Among those on board the plane were Mr. Kaczynski; his wife, Maria; former Polish president Ryszard Kaczorowski; the deputy speaker of Poland’s parliament, Jerzy Szmajdzin’ski; the head of the president’s chancellery, Wladyslaw Stasiak; and the head of the National Security Bureau, Aleksander Szczygo.
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The conspiracy theorist inside me says this was an inside job by the KGB for negotiating with the US to build the missile defense system in Poland and the Czech Republic.

:sneaky:
 
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A

al981

Golden Member
May 28, 2009
1,036
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where did you get your tinfoil hat from? if america isn't capable of government conspiracies, russia certainly isn't.
 
JEDIYoda

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
al981 said:
where did you get your tinfoil hat from? if america isn't capable of government conspiracies, russia certainly isn't.
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your a moron, Russsia has a history of retribution, but no they did not do this!!
 
A

al981

Golden Member
May 28, 2009
1,036
0
0
JEDIYoda said:
your a moron, Russsia has a history of retribution, but no they did not do this!!
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you're.

you are.

you're.

where did i say russia did anything? put down the crackpipe, and put on more tinfoil hat, son!
 
F

Fear No Evil

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2008
5,922
0
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Obama trusts Russia, we all should.. their leadership has no history of acting this way...


Buwahahahahaha.. sorry.. Had to try to keep a straight face while saying that..
 
Rhonda the Sly

Rhonda the Sly

Senior member
Nov 22, 2007
818
4
76
I just saw the headline as it crept into my news feed a minute ago. Needless to say I'm shocked. Shocked not only that it happened but also in that the President and what is described in the article as "much of the government" died in a crash. If the Polish President is on a plane you grab the best damn pilot in Poland to fly it. I've no doubt they feel the same way, which is part of what makes it so surprising.

The plane was a Tupolev Tu-154, designed by the Soviets in the mid-1960s, and Polish officials had long complained about the country’s aging air fleet. Former prime minister Leszek Miller, who survived a helicopter crash in 2003, told a Polish news network he had long predicted such a disaster.

...

Russia halted mass-production of the Tu-154 roughly 20 years ago, making the Polish presidential jet, despite its age, one of the youngest of the roughly 200 of the planes that are still in service globally, said Paul Hayes, director of accidents and insurance at Ascend, an aviation consultancy in London.
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Another shocking Revelation. One of the youngest planes in Poland's air fleet - the plane they fly their president on - is fifty years old?

The Polish president had been due in western Russia to commemorate the anniversary of the murder of thousands of Polish officers by the Soviet Union at the beginning of World War II.
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Leaving to commemorate the the death of soldiers only to die oneself. Sort of ironic, I suppose.
 
Thump553

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,839
2,625
136
Air Force One is 25 years old. Our fleet of B-52s were last built in the 1950s. There are thousands and thousands of perfectly safe Cessenas, Piper Cubs, etc. that were built in the 1940s and 1950s. Odds are the average US airliner is a dozen years old or so.

Proper and aggressive maintainence can extend the life of planes way beyond what you think (frequently the planes are essentially rebuilt from the barebones up).


BTW, this plane was basically a civil airliner with roughly 130 peopleon board-pretty far strretch for any conspiracy theory.
 
fatpat268

fatpat268

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2006
5,853
0
71
Thump553 said:
Air Force One is 25 years old. Our fleet of B-52s were last built in the 1950s. There are thousands and thousands of perfectly safe Cessenas, Piper Cubs, etc. that were built in the 1940s and 1950s. Odds are the average US airliner is a dozen years old or so.

Proper and aggressive maintainence can extend the life of planes way beyond what you think (frequently the planes are essentially rebuilt from the barebones up).


BTW, this plane was basically a civil airliner with roughly 130 peopleon board-pretty far strretch for any conspiracy theory.
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Doesn't sound like a mechanical failure anyway... sounds like pilot error.
 
StageLeft

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Yikes, crashes are rare enough as it is, surprising to see a country's president get offed in one.
 
DVad3r

DVad3r

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2005
5,340
3
81
It wasn't an accident, that plane was in top condition. Also, bad luck that it went down in Russia, the cover up will be even greater.
 
adlep

adlep

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2001
5,287
6
81
Being from Poland, I can tell you now, that many people were calling for a replacement of Tu's like 10 years ago.
Presidents should fly the latest and greatest and not some old pile of 30 year old technology.
Sad news
 
C

chusteczka

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2006
3,399
3
71
This event has shocked and saddened me also. There is no doubt that many people will look for Russian involvement in this crash due to the treatment Poland has received at Russia's hands for the last 200 years. Just last week, Putin gave credit to the Polish Underground Army from WWII due to the massacre of Polish military officers and intellectuals at Katyn after the war.

This event recalls similarities to Polish General Sikorski's death in a plane crash during WWII that many still believe was not coincidental.

What surprises me the most is the high number of important people on a single plane. Poland is not out of Russian control yet and they should not get complacent with their security and fears of conspiracy.
 
K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
53,845
48,589
136
adlep said:
Being from Poland, I can tell you now, that many people were calling for a replacement of Tu's like 10 years ago.
Presidents should fly the latest and greatest and not some old pile of 30 year old technology.
Sad news
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Apparently that particular plane just went through a major overhaul last and should have been perfectly safe.

I'm not generally one for conspiracy theories but I read Putin is heading up the crash investigation himself. Not exactly the world's most impartial truth seeker.
 
CallMeJoe

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
81
DVad3r said:
It wasn't an accident, that plane was in top condition. Also, bad luck that it went down in Russia, the cover up will be even greater.
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Non sequitur. Being in "top condition" does not immunize an aircraft from accident. Pilot error, random mechanical, hydraulic or electronic failure, ATC error... any number of things can doom an aircraft regardless of how well maintained it is.

FWIW, it appears from the reports that the pilot attempted landing under below-minimum conditions for the Smolensk airport and crashed during a missed approach. I haven't found reliable information on Smolensk's facilities, but it appears unlikely it has higher than Cat 1 ILS if it has an ILS at all.
 
adlep

adlep

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2001
5,287
6
81
K1052 said:
Apparently that particular plane just went through a major overhaul last and should have been perfectly safe.

I'm not generally one for conspiracy theories but I read Putin is heading up the crash investigation himself. Not exactly the world's most impartial truth seeker.
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The plane lack the latest navigation and avionic equipment. The workload on a pilot is enormous...

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tu-154_pilótafülke.jpg

vs.

http://www.qrz.com/hampages/b/h/ph9hb/B737_003.jpg

Modern's plane cockpit. Typically modern commercial jets can land almost on their own and it is possible to land in 0 visibility conditions...
 
CallMeJoe

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
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adlep said:
...Typically modern commercial jets can land almost on their own and it is possible to land in 0 visibility conditions...
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...at all the airports that have the as-yet non-existent Cat IIIC ILS systems.
 
K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
53,845
48,589
136
adlep said:
The plane lack the latest navigation and avionic equipment. The workload on a pilot is enormous...

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tu-154_pil%C3%B3taf%C3%BClke.jpg

vs.

http://www.qrz.com/hampages/b/h/ph9hb/B737_003.jpg

Modern's plane cockpit. Typically modern commercial jets can land almost on their own and it is possible to land in 0 visibility conditions...
Click to expand...

Without knowing how this particular plane was outfitted I can't comment. I do sort of doubt that the plane's avionics package hadn't changed at all since it rolled off the line though.

Also, does anyone know why the Russian controller couldn't refuse permission to land due to field conditions if the plane had fuel to divert?

edit: apparently the plane was manufactured in 1990, it was younger than all the DC-9s NWA is carting people around on here in the US
 
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