President Obama to deliver statement on the Affordable Care Act at 11:35am ET

[werepossum]

The same reasoning for the mandate applies to minimum coverage levels. Insurance doesn't work when all the healthy people pay little-to-nothing into the pool. And that's the big potential problem with the individual market vs. the automatically getting coverage through your employer.

Problem is the taxpayers will be paying for most of the young, healthy people's health insurance, meaning we'll borrow it from China and pay it back with interest.

EDIT: Oops, Agent11 beat me to the point.

These changes by Obama set a very bad precedent IMO. For political purposes (claims of racism etc) I suspect the Repubs (or other Dems for that matter) are too afraid to call him on it.

One day there will be a Repub President. If (s)he does this type things the Dems will be hooted down if they complain. The precedent will have been established.

Fern

I'd say that precedent has already been established. Look at all Bush II's signing statements.

Then why isn't such a tax credit already in the law?

What other dumb things are buried in this law we haven't seen or experienced yet?

Fern

Because the purpose of this bill is not so much to help people as to destroy the non-governmental health insurance industry so that the sweet efficiency of government can bring us all rainbow stew and free Bubble-Up. Surely you haven't been fooled into thinking the Democrats give a rat's ass about actual Americans, any more than do Republicans.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

You might as well ask why programmers write buggy code.

This isn't buggy code, this is about screwing up people's insurance. If airplanes flew backed by operations displaying this level of competence they'd be falling out of the sky.

I hope that you are wrong and this is a considered option. It's so painfully obvious that if the people in charge as so incompetent that this would only now occur? They aren't fit to put on a band aid.

 

[werepossum]

Why can not a cafeteria plan type policy be made available.

You have a list of options and the cost for such options.

Possibly a discount for bundling options.

Excellent idea, elegant and intelligent and common sense. Obviously neither party will touch it with a ten foot pole.

Yeah. I've heard many claim the reason Obama was 45 minutes late was because they were still trying to figure WTH to do at the last minute.

Fern

LOL That's so nonsensical it's almost certainly true. Amateur hour continues.

You might as well ask why programmers write buggy code.

Because Government pays them to?

 

[Agent11]

It can still become that you know, call your congressman and senator and tell them.

The more pressure put on the senate the better at this point.

 

[Zorkorist]

No, not really.

We can't make up things after the fact. They can't be fixed after the fact.

Socialist health plans, are in force.

There was plenty of time to oppose the Affordable Care Act, and Obama, but you guys did not.

So suck it, bitch.

-John

 

[Agent11]

Technically it isn't truly socialist. Single payer would be socialist.

 

[Zorkorist]

When Government controls health care, believe me, it is socialist.

If not communist.

What's for sure is the individual citizen is screwed.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

It's all a game now, about who you know, in the Government.

Bribes, etc.

-John

 

[waggy]

Obama seems lost and has no idea what to do. His proposal evinces desperation.

It doesn't make much sense to me, a delay of only one year means next October we're going see a repeat of the cancellations for individual polices combined with the cancellations in the employer/group market. Really? So this shizz is going to hit the fan again right before the elections next year?

Fern

Obama is lost and does not have a idea on what is going on. IF teh last few year of "scandals" tells me anything that's even his cabinet thinks he's a retard and won't tell him anything. He sure says he has no clue what is going on.


I don't get the 1 year deley. though to be honest it was the only move he had. IF he stuck to his guns he was done and the dems were done. He was losing backing of dems EVERY day this mess went on. I think to much longer (and since they were voting on it today) ha had to make a move yesterday.

the 1 year grace period can't work. WHY would insurance company's say "sure come back at the price you were for a year!". that sees a silly business move. Offer to let everyone back in for %30 more. they gotta cover the paperwork of kicking everyone off then letting the back on. and heh what they going to do anyway? get ACA?

ACA has been a clusterfuck. though the more i see the governent act the more i think its done this way to push 1 payer

 

[sactoking]

Obama seems lost and has no idea what to do. His proposal evinces desperation.

It doesn't make much sense to me, a delay of only one year means next October we're going see a repeat of the cancellations for individual polices combined with the cancellations in the employer/group market. Really? So this shizz is going to hit the fan again right before the elections next year?

No, because it's actually a two year delay intended to avoid the 2014 election. What was released to the states says that any policy that was in-force on 10/1/13 and that renews between 1/1/14 and 10/1/14 will be allowed to renew during 2014 without complying with 8 specific sections of the ACA, allowing the policies to be carried to 1/1/15-10/1/15.

This doesn't even seem possible. Some states are on record as saying they will not allow the old policies to be reissued. For other states, how long does it take to develop HI plans? How long for the actuarial work, the legal work and getting state regulatory board approval?

In theory, since the plans already existed the work is mostly done. In reality the single risk pool requirement means that every policy offered by an insurer choosing to go down this path will have to be re-rated. Since exchange policy prices are locked in, that presents problems.

Are these 'old' plans going to be sold on the exchange? If so, how much trouble modifying that site now to include them? If not, wouldn't that mean that there's no subsidy available for the old plans?

The old plans cannot be sold to anyone, only renewed. This means that yes, there will be no tax credits available.

How will this affect the costs of the Obamacare plans? Will they be full of old/sick/unhealthy people? Didn't they plan on a certain number of younger/healthier people in those plans to keep the costs down?

What happens to cost calculations for things like maternity care, pediatric medical and dental, addiction or mental health care when these 'old' plans won't include them (or the many other things included in the 10 Minimum Benefits) ?

In theory the exchange plans will get selected against (the young and healthy will stay in the old plans). This would drive up premiums of the exchange plans but so far CCIIO has not indicated they are willing to let insurers re-rate the exchange plans. Interestingly, CCIIO has stated that they will not allow insurers to pull out of exchanges in the 36 federal exchange states even though they (CCIIO) have essentially already broken the exchange contract with the insurer.

In the past ardent supporters of Obamacare have argued there could be no 1 yr delay in the individual mandate because it would blow up the system. What's changed?

Politics

Is this some sort of temp 'patch' until something can be worked out in the near future? I can't imagine they'd want to go through this all again right before the 2014 elections.

It is a temporary fix to get them past the 2014 elections (see above), but the White House has reserved the right to extend the "fix" at will and as needed.

Is this some sort of stupid political ploy to throw responsibility for cancelled plans on the HI companies?

Fern

No, it's some sort of stupid political ploy to throw responsibility for canceled plans on the health insurers and the states.

 

[shady28]

No, because it's actually a two year delay intended to avoid the 2014 election. What was released to the states says that any policy that was in-force on 10/1/13 and that renews between 1/1/14 and 10/1/14 will be allowed to renew during 2014 without complying with 8 specific sections of the ACA, allowing the policies to be carried to 1/1/15-10/1/15.

Quite a few articles are already exposing this for what it is - a blame shifting game.

Insurance companies must go through state regulators to get approval for their policies. All these cancelled / replaced policies therefore must go through that process again. There isn't time at this point.

Moreover, it's a very dubious proposition to any insurance company that "It's the law, but we aren't going to enforce it" is Obama's new line, particularly given that he has proven himself to be a duplicitous liar .

What's also unclear is what it means for penalties if you have a non-compliant plan. The ultimate irony is to get a $100/month plan, only to get penalized 1% of income at the end of the year because it doesn't comply.

We are just beginning to scrape the surface of the structural issues with Obamacare. Every day something new comes out. It's an example of supreme incompetence from Washington. Frankly I think it's got both Republicans and Democrats scared, as they are all incapable of doing the one thing they need to do right now - their job.

 

[ericlp]

I wonder how many are on ACA plan already? I bet spidy is!

I think it's great that the insurance companies just lost 5 million customers. I say let them LOSE every customer... Matter of fact if you are insured ... STOP paying your premium.

I'd never EVER pay into insurance again. It's a waste of my time and $. If Everyone stopped paying we as the people could tell them who is in control of the system ... Instead like sheeple you are... You continue to make monthly pay checks out for banks and greedy wall street. Not to mention all the CEO's. Insurance companies don't care about you.

You know when insurance companies get scared they do things like to "THINK" they are in control. Yes a scare tactic. Oh well.. Have Fun with it. Enjoy the Ride!

 

[frowertr]

I wonder how many are on ACA plan already? I bet spidy is!

I think it's great that the insurance companies just lost 5 million customers. I say let them LOSE every customer... Matter of fact if you are insured ... STOP paying your premium.

I'd never EVER pay into insurance again. It's a waste of my time and $. If Everyone stopped paying we as the people could tell them who is in control of the system ... Instead like sheeple you are... You continue to make monthly pay checks out for banks and greedy wall street. Not to mention all the CEO's. Insurance companies don't care about you.

You know when insurance companies get scared they do things like to "THINK" they are in control. Yes a scare tactic. Oh well.. Have Fun with it. Enjoy the Ride!

So when you get diagnosed with cancer or get in a catastrophic car wreck I guess we (the people) are going to be paying for your med bills??

Look, I have no love for the insurance industry. But to think it is wise to have no coverage is just ignorance.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

I'd say that precedent has already been established. Look at all Bush II's signing statements.

It was set long before that and it's far different from signing statements.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...hite-house-defends-legality-of-obamacare-fix/

Update with more detailed article:
http://www.theatlantic.com/national...atantly-illegal-or-routine-adjustment/277873/

 

[BoberFett]

I wonder how many are on ACA plan already? I bet spidy is!

I think it's great that the insurance companies just lost 5 million customers. I say let them LOSE every customer... Matter of fact if you are insured ... STOP paying your premium.

I'd never EVER pay into insurance again. It's a waste of my time and $. If Everyone stopped paying we as the people could tell them who is in control of the system ... Instead like sheeple you are... You continue to make monthly pay checks out for banks and greedy wall street. Not to mention all the CEO's. Insurance companies don't care about you.

You know when insurance companies get scared they do things like to "THINK" they are in control. Yes a scare tactic. Oh well.. Have Fun with it. Enjoy the Ride!

3:24AM... Guess who was out drinking last night!

 

[Exterous]

There will be a hell of a lot absences in Dec 2014 if this stupid-ass law stays in effect.

Honestly - I am willing to bet a lot of people aren't going to think of that

3:24AM... Guess who was out drinking last night!

Uh-oh - better take good care of that liver if you aren't paying for HI!

 

[IndyColtsFan]

It's an example of supreme incompetence from Washington. Frankly I think it's got both Republicans and Democrats scared, as they are all incapable of doing the one thing they need to do right now - their job.

You must be mistaken. I've been repeatedly assured by our good friends here that the government is EXACTLY who we need to run healthcare. They couldn't possibly be wrong, could they?

 

[rudeguy]

Honestly - I am willing to bet a lot of people aren't going to think of that



Uh-oh - better take good care of that liver if you aren't paying for HI!

screw that, if I am paying for his liver I get to decide what he does with it.

No more drinking for him. And no more trans fat. And I demand he gets his tubes tied.

 

[sactoking]

Because I'm devious and because it's my job to think of things like this:

Imagine you live in a state such as Florida, a state that has announced they will allow plans to be renewed to the President's specifications. You have a plan that renewed on May 1 of this year and you've received your cancellation notice for May 1 of 2014. Sometime in November or early December you get a letter declaring that you can stay on your policy for one more year. May of 2014 rolls around and you renew your policy through May of 2015. You're generally pretty healthy, which is why you were interested in staying on you old plan to begin with, and you have no claims during the 2014/2015 plan year. Your coverage expires May 1, 2015 and you use a special enrollment period to enroll in a new, ACA-compliant plan going forward. Why on God's green earth would you not then file a lawsuit against your insurer to have you premiums refunded?

It's a general tenet of contract law that a contract needs four elements to be enforceable: an offer, acceptance, consideration, and a legal purpose. The renewal plan you may be offered is illegal. The ACA allows only two types of plans, ACA-compliant and grandfathered. These renewals are, by definition, not ACA-compliant. They are also not legally grandfathered. Instead, the White House has basically announced that they will not enforce certain provisions of federal law on otherwise illegal contracts. That the WH elects not to enforce does not preclude a private right of action. Loophole.

 

[werepossum]

Because I'm devious and because it's my job to think of things like this:

Imagine you live in a state such as Florida, a state that has announced they will allow plans to be renewed to the President's specifications. You have a plan that renewed on May 1 of this year and you've received your cancellation notice for May 1 of 2014. Sometime in November or early December you get a letter declaring that you can stay on your policy for one more year. May of 2014 rolls around and you renew your policy through May of 2015. You're generally pretty healthy, which is why you were interested in staying on you old plan to begin with, and you have no claims during the 2014/2015 plan year. Your coverage expires May 1, 2015 and you use a special enrollment period to enroll in a new, ACA-compliant plan going forward. Why on God's green earth would you not then file a lawsuit against your insurer to have you premiums refunded?

It's a general tenet of contract law that a contract needs four elements to be enforceable: an offer, acceptance, consideration, and a legal purpose. The renewal plan you may be offered is illegal. The ACA allows only two types of plans, ACA-compliant and grandfathered. These renewals are, by definition, not ACA-compliant. They are also not legally grandfathered. Instead, the White House has basically announced that they will not enforce certain provisions of federal law on otherwise illegal contracts. That the WH elects not to enforce does not preclude a private right of action. Loophole.

Another possible pitfall - website finally begins working and Obama retroactively removes the non-enforcement agreement.

 

[cubby1223]

Ah, gotta love Obama's new plan for Obamacare... re-brand and re-market the heck out of it! Joy!
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/19/us-usa-healthcare-obama-idUSBRE9AI15W20131119

Because we all know the only problem there ever has been with Obamacare is that the Democrats just needed to explain it better!

 

[werepossum]

Ah, gotta love Obama's new plan for Obamacare... re-brand and re-market the heck out of it! Joy!
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/19/us-usa-healthcare-obama-idUSBRE9AI15W20131119

Because we all know the only problem there ever has been with Obamacare is that the Democrats just needed to explain it better!

LOL

President Barack Obama blamed Republicans on Tuesday for contributing to the troubled rollout of his signature healthcare insurance plan and said it will be hard to "rebrand" Obamacare after his administration fixes a website used to sign up for the program.

"We should have anticipated that that would create a rockier rollout," Obama told a Wall Street Journal conference.

"One of the problems we've had is one side of Capitol Hill is invested in failure," Obama said.

There's an Onion article there that practically writes itself. "Damn it, the Republicans knew all along that I'm an idiot with absolutely no private sector experience, and that my whole administration is built of people who think they are smarter than everybody else but actually have zero real world experience running a business or even working in one. And yet, they still did nothing to save the country from our blunders. When you think about it, this is really all their fault."

Then again, the Onion probably doesn't run stories that are THAT close to what Obama's actually saying.

 

[spacejamz]

Ah, gotta love Obama's new plan for Obamacare... re-brand and re-market the heck out of it! Joy!
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/19/us-usa-healthcare-obama-idUSBRE9AI15W20131119

Because we all know the only problem there ever has been with Obamacare is that the Democrats just needed to explain it better!

"If the president doesn't realize this disastrous rollout is solely the result of his administration's own failings, then he may never get this implementation figured out," said Brendan Buck, a spokesman for House Republican Speaker John Boehner.

 

[werepossum]

"If the president doesn't realize this disastrous rollout is solely the result of his administration's own failings, then he may never get this implementation figured out," said Brendan Buck, a spokesman for House Republican Speaker John Boehner.

Man, I would hate to be a spokesman for Boehner. "Hello? No, I don't know why he's crying. What did you do to him? You must have done something."

Only thing worse would be a spokesman for Obama. "WHAT? Are you insane? I can't say that, they'll know I'm lying!"

 

[AdamantC]

We're going to have obviously remarket and rebrand, and that will be challenging in this political environment

Love how Obama doesn't mention anything about fixing the problems with the program.

Just keep polishing that turd, Obama, soon it'll be shinny enough to be used as a mirror in a telescope!