President Obama? Not this time

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
So is Obama just another Dean or Bradley making lots of noise and getting lots of attention but doomed to fail the second things get serious?

I doubt Obama could get elected, but I wonder how far he will make it. And maybe this is all for the VP slot, if he finishes second he will most likely HAVE to be at least offered the spot.
link
(This is from the Boston Globe, a liberal paper, so don't make any accusations against the right.)
Stop me if you've read this column before.

In 1999, I wrote a dreamy tribute to then presidential candidate Bill Bradley and commented: "I don't believe that I will ever live in a country that elects Bill Bradley president. I'd like to live in that country, though."

In 2002, 27 months before Howard Dean's presidential campaign imploded, I wrote: "Howard Dean is the story we tell ourselves every four years; the Paul Tsongas story, the Bruce Babbitt story, the John Anderson story. It is a very diverting fable, this notion of the brilliant, worthy, and committed outsider who has a decent chance of becoming our next president."

No stranger to self-plagiarism, I added: "I wouldn't mind living in a country where Howard Dean was president, but somehow I don't think that I will."

Meet Barack Obama, the BradleyDeanBabbittTsongas of the 2008 election cycle.

I can't recapitulate in just a few words the outpourings of numerous magazine covers, network television features , and acres of cuddly op-ed commentary. In their current revue, Chicago's Second City comedy troupe lampoons Obama-mania: "Barack is accessible," one actor explains to a fictional Hillary Clinton. "You want to talk to him, you want to hang out with him. You want him to lie on top of you and sing you a lullaby."

Let me repeat: I wouldn't mind living in a country where Barack Obama is president. Brains; candor; charisma; ambition hitched to a work ethic; I admire those qualities. But frankly, the people who've ponied up $4,600 for Obama in this election cycle might as well have piled the money on the kitchen table and set fire to it. Or donated it to the Audubon Society, which has a lot better chance of being in business a year from now than Obama's presidential campaign.

If you listen closely, the silent dog whistle is already blowing for the Obama candidacy, and the tune it is playing is taps.

Earlier this year, The New Yorker asked the three leading Democratic presidential candidates how they might manage the Iraq war . As opposed to Hillary Clinton, who, according to the magazine, "speaks with confidence and directness" on the subject, Barack "has not yet articulated an overarching national security world view." That's OK; he's only a first-term senator, not far removed from local Illinois politics. But in extended interviews, Obama comes off as more of a Darfur guy than an Iraq guy, meaning that he is better informed about the humanitarian crisis in Sudan than he is about the briar patch of a war that has killed thousands of American soldiers.

A more recent New Yorker article depicted Obama as an emotionally centered, mellow cat. Inevitably, the political pros are asking themselves: Does he have the fire in the belly? Does he have What It Takes?

Last week, The New York Times profiled Obama's spiritual adviser, Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. and his Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago. Wright is an inspirational minister responsible for Obama's embrace of Christian values and mission. The Times politely calls Wright's politics "Afrocentric," but Obama's political rivals will call them black separatist when it behooves them to do so. So, in a high-stakes, nationally televised debate, Obama might be called upon to defend his pastor and church, or abjure his faith.

I write this with my head, not my heart. I've discussed this column with friends, who point to Obama's astonishing fund-raising ability, or Hillary Clinton's purported unelectability as counter-arguments. I reply: Money isn't everything, and I have stopped believing in Clinton's unelectability. She's walked through fire too many times. The setbacks and unspeakable humiliations thrown in her face didn't kill her, they made her stronger.

This time, I fear it is Barack Obama who is going to get burned.
 
Feb 16, 2005
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Op Ed = Truth?
Not today fink. Everyone has skeletons, and I still think Dean would have been the best choice. Then again, a steaming pile of rat dung would supersede the moron currently in the oval office.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
I'd love to vote for a Hillary (P) / Obama (VP) ticket.

I just can't really get past his lack of experience at this time... I think I'm paraphrasing Bill Maher, but we tried electing the guy we'd like to have a drink with last election and it didn't work out so well.
 

imported_Shivetya

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2005
2,978
1
0
Since when was it a race? Hillary is the nominee unless she's dead or convicted of making someone dead.

The others are just trying for the VP slot.

It won't matter who is polling better, the delegates to the DNC will vote as they are instructed and Hillary will be the nominee. They might take two or three votes but no one else really is considered.

 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,303
144
106
Folks are going to question Barracks experience and whether he has strong bowels

Folks are going to question Hillary's integrity, personality, among other things.

everyone is going to have a weakness. There is never a perfect candidate.

I dont see anyone denying these circumstances. I can see why Hillary's abilty to divide so many people would work to the GOP advantage. I can see why placing her above Barrack would work to the GOP advantage.

I can see why people need to hear more from Barrack. That works to his advantage, and to the advantage of the liberal base, but no one elses. He does need to step it up.

I guess thats my .02 on this op ed.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Anybody else hear Obama's speech where he made the mistake of claiming 10,000 people died in Greenburg? :D

 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
when i see women looking all dreamy eyed at Obama that alone is reason enough not to vote for the guy.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
I am voting for Hillary in the primary, but whoever the Democrats nominate in the general election. Obama is nice, but he's a bit young and idealistic, plus the prospect of seeing conservatives moan for the next 8 years with Hillary Clinton in the White House is just too precious to squander.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Originally posted by: loki8481
I'd love to vote for a Hillary (P) / Obama (VP) ticket.

I just can't really get past his lack of experience at this time... I think I'm paraphrasing Bill Maher, but we tried electing the guy we'd like to have a drink with last election and it didn't work out so well.

You can't compare Bush with Obama. Just listen to both for about 10 seconds.
I do agree he needs more experience, but comparing him to Bush is unfair. No amount of experience would help Dubya.
 

bdude

Golden Member
Feb 9, 2004
1,645
0
76
We have over another year until we actually walk into a booth to vote. This is all too ridiculously soon.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: loki8481
I'd love to vote for a Hillary (P) / Obama (VP) ticket.

I just can't really get past his lack of experience at this time... I think I'm paraphrasing Bill Maher, but we tried electing the guy we'd like to have a drink with last election and it didn't work out so well.

You can't compare Bush with Obama. Just listen to both for about 10 seconds.
I do agree he needs more experience, but comparing him to Bush is unfair. No amount of experience would help Dubya.

Yeah, there's no comparison for several reasons. Sure, Obama is far far more articulate. OTOH GWB did have experience, he was Governor. And that is THE experience most winning Pres candidates have. Rarely do they come out of Congress etc.

Other than the expected blunders inexperienced candidates typically make, I think he's doing pretty good so far. I think it premature for him to articulate to many positions. He should do that a later. If you come out with them too soon, nobody has anything else to do and will set about critisizing them. I think it beter for him as an inexperienced candidite to play "counter-puncher" rather than attacker at this point.

Fern
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: loki8481
I'd love to vote for a Hillary (P) / Obama (VP) ticket.

I just can't really get past his lack of experience at this time... I think I'm paraphrasing Bill Maher, but we tried electing the guy we'd like to have a drink with last election and it didn't work out so well.

You can't compare Bush with Obama. Just listen to both for about 10 seconds.
I do agree he needs more experience, but comparing him to Bush is unfair. No amount of experience would help Dubya.

Yeah, there's no comparison for several reasons. Sure, Obama is far far more articulate. OTOH GWB did have experience, he was Governor. And that is THE experience most winning Pres candidates have. Rarely do they come out of Congress etc.

Other than the expected blunders inexperienced candidates typically make, I think he's doing pretty good so far. I think it premature for him to articulate to many positions. He should do that a later. If you come out with them too soon, nobody has anything else to do and will set about critisizing them. I think it beter for him as an inexperienced candidite to play "counter-puncher" rather than attacker at this point.

Fern

Well, that just makes my point that Bush's problem wasn't lack of experience, so there isn't really a valid comparison to Obama here, IMO. So to say that we shouldn't elect Obama because w e elected Bush and he sucked doesn't really make much sense.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Originally posted by: senseamp
So to say that we shouldn't elect Obama because w e elected Bush and he sucked doesn't really make much sense.

No it doesn't IMO either.

I think it easier to make the case that those two are almost polar opposites:

White v. Black

Rich priviledge family v. Not

Prominent politically powerful father v. Not

Experienced Governor v. inexperienced Senator

(pretending to be) Conservative v. Liberal

Inarticulate v. Highly Articulate

Yale v. Harvard (IIRC)

Business failure b4 politics v No Biz failure (AFAIK)

What do they have in common, other than a little blow (coke) when younger?

Fern
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,073
55,604
136
As the Op-Ed put it, it's not really a case of whether Obama would do a good job or not. (I honesty think he would do a very good job) The question is if he is electable or not. I'm not going to count him out like the author did, but I have a feeling like he has peaked.

First he would have to win the Democratic nomination, and that means beating Hillary... which I don't think he (or anyone else) can do. She's too smart, and she has that touch of mean-ness that Democratic campaign's seem to lack. I think she'll beat him down if he gets too close.

Then he has to win the general election, and all his other attributes aside I don't think America will elect a black president. I hope in my heart I'm wrong, but I just can't see him winning the swing states. I think the percentage of racist voters in america isn't huge, and the percentage of racist swing voters even smaller... but I think 1-2% is likely, (note: figures pulled out of my ass) and that's more then enough to take a candidate from victory to defeat nowadays.

 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Always count on poofer John to come up with a deflection---the Sheik has the proper rejoinder when its pointed out---Then again, a steaming pile of rat dung would supersede the moron currently in the oval office. And when you look at the current Republican crop, the steaming pile still applies. Obama has more Charisma and smarts in his little finger than the entire Republican field to date. And non Prof John can put it in his pipe and smoke it for all I care. Its long past time to point out that the Republican party will be morally and politically bankrupt
until it fully and wholeheartedly rejects the works of GWB&co.

And if non Prof John wants to go to bed with the Republican party---its also long past time for him to pick his favorite Republican fink---and cease trying to negatively tout democrats who will never get the poofer's endorsement. Take my word for it, the dems will do just fine without any help from Jonney. Stick to your own party non Prof John---your advice and interference is unwelcome. You need to worry about GWB&co. and the Republican steaming pile syndrome. Get your house in order FIRST before you troll under someone else's bridge.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Sorry accidental double post---but still time to say---stay on your own side of the fence poofer John. Tout your favorite Republican---or do they disgust you also?
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Sorry accidental double post---but still time to say---stay on your own side of the fence poofer John. Tout your favorite Republican---or do they disgust you also?
I'm sorry, I was confused. For a second I thought the 2008 elections were about picking the person who will be everyones president, my mistake.
 

AnyMal

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
15,780
0
76
Originally posted by: bdude
We have over another year until we actually walk into a booth to vote. This is all too ridiculously soon.

Actually, more like 18 months ;) Yeah, way too soon to be placing bets.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: loki8481
I'd love to vote for a Hillary (P) / Obama (VP) ticket.

I just can't really get past his lack of experience at this time... I think I'm paraphrasing Bill Maher, but we tried electing the guy we'd like to have a drink with last election and it didn't work out so well.

You can't compare Bush with Obama. Just listen to both for about 10 seconds.
I do agree he needs more experience, but comparing him to Bush is unfair. No amount of experience would help Dubya.

Yeah, there's no comparison for several reasons. Sure, Obama is far far more articulate. OTOH GWB did have experience, he was Governor. And that is THE experience most winning Pres candidates have. Rarely do they come out of Congress etc.

Other than the expected blunders inexperienced candidates typically make, I think he's doing pretty good so far. I think it premature for him to articulate to many positions. He should do that a later. If you come out with them too soon, nobody has anything else to do and will set about critisizing them. I think it beter for him as an inexperienced candidite to play "counter-puncher" rather than attacker at this point.

Fern

He was governor of Texas, which as I understand is something akin to being the Queen of England in terms of actual leadership responsibilities.
 

beyoku

Golden Member
Aug 20, 2003
1,568
1
71
Originally posted by: senseamp
I am voting for Hillary in the primary, but whoever the Democrats nominate in the general election. Obama is nice, but he's a bit young and idealistic, plus the prospect of seeing conservatives moan for the next 8 years with Hillary Clinton in the White House is just too precious to squander.

I WANT a president that is young and idealistic.
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
1
81
Originally posted by: Citrix
when i see women looking all dreamy eyed at Obama that alone is reason enough not to vote for the guy.

Sorry to bump an old thread, but can someone explain what this post means?
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Well, for what its worth Obama is in the race and a distant second to Hillary. And still has done very little to define himself. And when in that limbo, can potentially be all things to all people.
And defining himself therefore has the potential to diminish his appeal.

But sooner or later, Obama is going to have to define himself and take stands on issues. And is somewhat self handicapped because much of his appeal is precisely in not using tiny little sound bytes to sum up complex issues.

But this also one of those times that try men's souls---and as I type this post the battle lines
are slowly forming up over a potentially titanic show down between the executive and legislative branches. And if there was ever a time to show leadership, political courage, and steadiness during a crisis, this could be a golden opportunity for Obama. Anyone can self tout themselves as uniter's and not dividers, but its a wee mite more genuine when its demonstrated.----and when push comes to shove---Obama has charisma but charisma without the matching deeds can prove to be worthless in itself. But add the matching deeds
and Obama could become almost unbeatable.

But legislative leadership is the last quality any sitting legislator seems to be showing on their resume presently---and they are more often missing in action on roll call votes and they are off campaigning rather than doing the jobs they are paid to do. And as someone who tends to vote democratic, I am hardly thrilled with the leadership of Reid or Pelosi.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,827
6,782
126
Originally posted by: beyoku
<blockquote>quote:
Originally posted by: senseamp
I am voting for Hillary in the primary, but whoever the Democrats nominate in the general election. Obama is nice, but he's a bit young and idealistic, plus the prospect of seeing conservatives moan for the next 8 years with Hillary Clinton in the White House is just too precious to squander.</blockquote>

I WANT a president that is young and idealistic.

Utter nonsense! The founding fathers in their almost infinite wisdom, deemed a President could not be young because he had to be at least 35. Obama would have been a proper old fart among them.

Go Obama, keep hope alive!