President Clinton: Don't underestimate the Tea Party

[bamacre]

Ultimately yes, but my little poll the other day suggests that many won't or cannot accept straightforward scenarios they aren't familiar with. What happens when the issues are less clear cut? They burrow in like ticks to the familiar, and the parties do everything to make sure they do.

:thumbsup:

 

[bl4ckfl4g]

Well we currently have the smartest man ever elected to any office in the history of the world and he can't seem to do much other than give speeches saying how hard it is and saying 'But Bush'. Maybe it IS time to try something different.

I agree but you really think O'donnell is the answer. That is the problem. She has no answers but has some rhetoric just like Obama and you believe this idiot.

 

[HendrixFan]

Completely disagree. Bubble economy and bad foreign policy. He's not significantly different from the two nuts who followed. The only exception (and it's a big one, I admit) being he didn't run up huge deficits.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/de/Nasdaq2.png

The dot com bubble didn't hit until near the end of his term. By 1996, when Clinton ran for re-election there had already been 11 million new jobs created in 4 years. You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.

 

[Moonbeam]

Yeah the problem is that the angry americans are turning to people like Palin and O'Donnell to fix the problems instead of anyone that actually has the brains or understanding to fix things. idiots.

You make the assumption they want to fix things. I don't think they do because I know something about folk who hate themselves. They seek self destruction and they will have their way. They are so full of self hate they don't know what the fuck is happening. These are the children who, when they flipped out, were beaten. They crave the punishment. It's what it means to be perverted and bent. It's self-flagellation and why it exists.

 

[bamacre]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/de/Nasdaq2.png

The dot com bubble didn't hit until near the end of his term. By 1996, when Clinton ran for re-election there had already been 11 million new jobs created in 4 years. You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.

Are we looking at the same graph? It burst near the end of his term.

 

[alphatarget1]

I have no problems with the Clinton presidency. NAFTA is a non-issue as you can see that Mexico isn't that much better off even after NAFTA. The only big screw up in his terms I can think of is probably Somalia and Monica. Hell, if it wasn't for Arafat, Israel and Palestinians would've had a peace treaty by the end of Clinton's term. Bosnia/Kosovo's interventions were strongly opposed by Republicans but without them, there would've been a lot more bloodshed.

The financial deregulation was passed with overwhelming bipartisan support near Clinton's last term. What good would a veto do if the vote was passed by 92 senators?

Obama's screw ups? Bailouts (not making Wall Street take more losses, "making homes more affordable act" or whatever that did not do jack), Healthcare (a crappy bill that does not lower cost or addresses the main problems in our system), Oil spill (happened strictly under his watch, by people he appointed), etc. I'm sure the right wing posters can continue with failures of the Obama Administration better than I can.

Clinton had experience as governor of Arkansas while Obama was community organizing and busy planning on a run for president as a 1st term Senator. Obama = fail and America = fail for electing this clown.

 

[Throckmorton]

I've been saying for 2 years not to underestimate the Tea Party. Maybe finally my liberal friends will stop being optimistic.

 

[HendrixFan]

Are we looking at the same graph? It burst near the end of his term.

Originally Posted by HendrixFan View Post
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...de/Nasdaq2.png

The dot com bubble didn't hit until near the end of his term. By 1996, when Clinton ran for re-election there had already been 11 million new jobs created in 4 years. You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.

The dotcom bubble started taking off in 1999, a full 6 years after he took office and after 15+ million jobs were created and welfare rolls were nearing their lowest in 30 years. Its peak was in 2000, just a year later. It burst around the elections in 2000 and bottomed around mid 2001.

It is incredibly foolish or disingenuous to act like 6 years of an 8 year term and the incredible growth that took place before any bubble started would be worth coining Clinton's tenure as a "bubble economy".

 

[Fern]

People can abandon the parties and form new ones so aren't the people at fault?

Theoretically perhaps.

Checkout the rules for starting/establishing/registering a new party. They're onerous. Guess who made them?

Edit: I suppose the TEA Party could become a real party if they wanted, what with all that 'evil money' behind them some here complain about.

Fern

 

[bamacre]

The dotcom bubble started taking off in 1999, a full 6 years after he took office and after 15+ million jobs were created and welfare rolls were nearing their lowest in 30 years. Its peak was in 2000, just a year later. It burst around the elections in 2000 and bottomed around mid 2001.

It is incredibly foolish or disingenuous to act like 6 years of an 8 year term and the incredible growth that took place before any bubble started would be worth coining Clinton's tenure as a "bubble economy".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble

The "dot-com bubble" (or sometimes "IT bubble"[1] or "TMT bubble") was a speculative bubble covering roughly 1995–2000 (with a climax on March 10, 2000 with the NASDAQ peaking at 5132.52) during which stock markets in industrialized nations saw their equity value rise rapidly from growth in the more recent Internet sector and related fields. While the latter part was a boom and bust cycle, the Internet boom sometimes is meant to refer to the steady commercial growth of the Internet with the advent of the world wide web as exemplified by the first release of the Mosaic web browser in 1993 and continuing through the 1990s.

 

[zinfamous]

Clinton gets it

He said the same thing about Bush Jr in the early early days of his campaigning, when just about every other political head was writing him off as an inconsequential boob.

Few people know politicking more than Clinton.

 

[Rainsford]

Theoretically perhaps.

Checkout the rules for starting/establishing/registering a new party. They're onerous. Guess who made them?

Edit: I suppose the TEA Party could become a real party if they wanted, what with all that 'evil money' behind them some here complain about.

Fern

I don't think it has anything to do with regulations. Despite their platform being as much anti-Republican as they are anti-Democratic, the Tea Party has either embraced or been taken over by the absolute WORST examples of politicians on the right, with candidates who make me fondly remember President Bush.

The problem with the Tea Party is that they aren't a new group with new ideas, it's the same "government = bad" (except when it's not) bullcrap that's been the core of extremely lazy Republican campaigns for decades now...only it's got a fresh coat of paint on it and the timing is good for gathering up a lot of pissed off voters. Don't get me wrong, I think it will have an impact on this election cycle, but only because the usual rhetoric is especially attractive to a disillusioned public. But they don't have enough substance to last for very long, IMO.

 

[HendrixFan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble

Internet companies started to IPO in 1995, but there wasn't a bubble in stocks until 1999, my graph shows that. You can't set the start of the recent housing bubble to the first house sold, you can't start the dotcom bubble with the first IPO.

Median household income for blacks went up 25% (28k to 35k) during Clinton's two terms. How does a dot com bubble affect that portion of society? Connect the dots for me. I argue that there was very real, very concrete growth in the economy which would make sense given that fact; as well as the jobs created within the timelines I mentioned earlier.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Clinton was a true statesman. He had his foibles, but I think we'd do well to put someone like him in the White House again.

I never thought I'd say this, but I have to agree. I laughed and made fun of Clinton at the time, but he wasn't so bad and I've always said, if I had to pick a politician to have a beer with, Clinton would probably be the guy. He'd at least know the location of all the good strip clubs. :awe:

 

[IndyColtsFan]

People have much too high of an opinion of Clinton just because he happened to be the president during a big giant bubble that didn't burst until after he left. The guy was lying cheating scum, the only reason things went relatively well is because there was gridlock between the republican congress and clinton, and there was a bubble.

That might be, but for Christ's sake, Obama makes Clinton look like Jefferson, Madison, Adams, Franklin, and Washington all rolled into one.

Scum or not, he's always been a shrewd politician who knows which way the winds are blowing. He knows the dims are in for a nice mid term report card on their performance in office, and he wants them to change the focus from "what have you done, you screwed everything up!" to "yeah, things are screwed up, but we promise with more taxing and spending all will be well".

Clinton and Obama don't like each other, so I think Clinton is also hoping for a "I told you so" moment.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Internet companies started to IPO in 1995, but there wasn't a bubble in stocks until 1999, my graph shows that. You can't set the start of the recent housing bubble to the first house sold, you can't start the dotcom bubble with the first IPO.

As an aside, I look back on those days fondly and marvel at all the "here today, gone tomorrow" businesses that sprouted up and offered insane prices on their goods just to get business. I scored some good deals back then; the "Hot Deals" we have today are nothing!

 

[spidey07]

I don't think it has anything to do with regulations. Despite their platform being as much anti-Republican as they are anti-Democratic, the Tea Party has either embraced or been taken over by the absolute WORST examples of politicians on the right, with candidates who make me fondly remember President Bush.

The problem with the Tea Party is that they aren't a new group with new ideas, it's the same "government = bad" (except when it's not) bullcrap that's been the core of extremely lazy Republican campaigns for decades now...only it's got a fresh coat of paint on it and the timing is good for gathering up a lot of pissed off voters. Don't get me wrong, I think it will have an impact on this election cycle, but only because the usual rhetoric is especially attractive to a disillusioned public. But they don't have enough substance to last for very long, IMO.

I don't think you truly understand what is going on. I went around the office last week asking if they knew the significanes of constituition day without giving it away. The mood that best struck me was from the black cafeteria worker that knows me as I asked what this day means.

She said "I doubt Obama has even read it. I am sorry for voting for him. I kinda want bush back".

You have no idea how many feel the same.

 

[soccerballtux]

And Americans were pissed off in 2008, too and voted to change things up. Not much changed but most still know where the blame lies... it doesn't and certainly won't excuse the side that was hired to fix problems who haven't so far.

It's clear dems are going to lose seats and will be replaced by mirrors of the same people who were just voted out 2 years ago. They will be as inept as teabaggers as they were as neocons. The circle continues...

I will respect them greatly when they stop being lampreys on the GOP butt and go off on their own. We need a viable 3rd party in this country to stir the shit up. All the tea party can be is the same shit different name until they do.

they were? fewer turned out than for the bu-bu-bush/kerry elections in 2004. Lol.

 

[soccerballtux]

Internet companies started to IPO in 1995, but there wasn't a bubble in stocks until 1999, my graph shows that. You can't set the start of the recent housing bubble to the first house sold, you can't start the dotcom bubble with the first IPO.

Median household income for blacks went up 25% (28k to 35k) during Clinton's two terms. How does a dot com bubble affect that portion of society? Connect the dots for me. I argue that there was very real, very concrete growth in the economy which would make sense given that fact; as well as the jobs created within the timelines I mentioned earlier.

it's really really hard to not have a strong economy when typewriters everywhere are being replaced with computers and printers. Lol. I bet Obama could pull it off though. All Clinton had to do was sit around and the budget balanced itself.

 

[spidey07]

they were? fewer turned out than for the bu-bu-bush/kerry elections in 2004. Lol.

And that will be what drives November. Motivation. Anger is the most powerful emotion that forces one to act. Never before gas a congress or president gone so directly against the the will of the people.

Anger is the most powerful call to action. That action is squarely pointed at Obama and congress.

 

[IronWing]

And that will be what drives November. Motivation. Anger is the most powerful emotion that forces one to act. Never before gas a congress or president gone so directly against the the will of the Spidey.

Anger is the most powerful call to action. That action is squarely pointed at Obama and congress.

Cleared that up for you. The people most pissed at Obama aren't your nuthouse tea baggers. It's the liberals who are super-pissed because Obama has been missing in action since the election. He was elected to implement the agenda he articulated during the campaign and he hasn't even tried.

 

[HendrixFan]

it's really really hard to not have a strong economy when typewriters everywhere are being replaced with computers and printers. Lol. I bet Obama could pull it off though. All Clinton had to do was sit around and the budget balanced itself.

As the numbers show, growth was robust and extended to all class levels. Whatever innovation there was (there is always innovation, kind of a red herring) in no way guarantees that everyone will see the benefits of it. You could easily have said the jobs disappeared as computers replaced them, but that did not happen. The strength of the economy during the Clinton years was that it permeated all classes. Any advancements we have seen in the last decade go straight to lining the pockets of those at the top and cutting jobs of those at the bottom.

Of course, I could just as easily point out that there would be no internet if not for Al Gore pushing the legislation through to open it up to commercial interests; and therefore likely no boom in the computer industry.

 

[spidey07]

Cleared that up for you. The people most pissed at Obama aren't your nuthouse tea baggers. It's the liberals who are super-pissed because Obama has been missing in action since the election. He was elected to implement the agenda he articulated during the campaign and he hasn't even tried.

If you think so. Just the mere mention of his name in my workplace brings "fuck that fucker" very quickly. You have no idea how much he is hated, it's not just me. See you in November. teabagtag.

 

[HendrixFan]

And that will be what drives November. Motivation. Anger is the most powerful emotion that forces one to act. Never before gas a congress or president gone so directly against the the will of the people.

I think you are correct with what you stated, but not what you mean. The Daily Show had a nice clip about this very topic the other day, showing all the things Obama campaigned for and subsequently dropped after taking office. The will of the people was for him to enact what he campaigned on and instead he has been flaccid. He certainly wasn't elected to not do the things he told people he would do.

 

[IronWing]

If you think so. Just the mere mention of his name in my workplace brings "fuck that fucker" very quickly. You have no idea how much he is hated, it's not just me. See you in November. teabagtag.

I thought you worked for a health insurance company? You guys should be giggling over all the dough you're going to rake in with the newly passed "health care reform" law.