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Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: bozack


I agree, most if not all of our indiscressionary purchases are made through funds I amass through ebay sales and what not so we try our best not to touch our income....I know too many who work 40K/year jobs who buy 60K cars and other items and then kick their own asses for it later on.


You could be a millionaire in 10 years making 40K a year. Seriously, read millionaire next door. Great book, I think my dad wrote it. 😛 he never made much money while we were growing up but always managed to buy real estate, stocks, and even start a very sucessful business late in life with lots of "capitalization". How? He drove a 74' olds station wagon until 1989. Drives an old 94 buick roadmaster to this day. Always doing his own repairs. Bought his clothes at catholic charities. Basically what many would call cheap! His motto is "assets not liabilites" with every purchase he makes. And today hes what many would call wealthy..lots of assets.

Many would call him cheap and out of touch nowadays. I'd call him a man worthy of respect.

Vermonts current governor is worth over a million now. His only liability is a loan on a 2000 Dodge Neon. I find it humorous and enlightening a man who has that much money drives the same car I do: A cheap econobox. He said he made his money through careful investment and being conservative (read: cheap) with his funds. He's been applying the same policies to the government since he's been in office. The guys got my vote.
 
Originally posted by: PingSpike
I always have a hard understanding these people who have to have fancy stuff for the sake of having fancy stuff. When I was growing up, a lot of people around me all got expensive toys and many more of them while I was given a modest amount of toys and hardly any of the expensive ones. Other families got new cars every couple of years, mine usually waited until the cheap econobox we got was 7+ years old before a new one was purchased. We bought cheap clothes that were on sale and ate affordable food while other kid's parents bought their sons $80 rebock pumps that they would grow out of in one year. They didn't buy me a car when I turned 16.

Because of this, I always thought my family was poor. My parents always explained that they "couldn't afford all that stuff". I never really thought less of them for it, because my parents always worked hard and I never lacked something when I actually needed it. I just thought we weren't that well off, but my parents were doing their best.

My family isn't poor though. While both my parents grew up fairly poor, my parents are actually very successful small business owners. Again, I always had everything I needed. When it came time to go to college, I wasn't eligible for any kind of aide besides loans. But my parents had saved up money to pay for my school and my siblings. Most of those other kids got to take out loans or didn't even go...it was their parents who were now saying "we can't afford that stuff"

It wasn't until I was older that I realized that my parents weren't poor...they just weren't idiots. They had their priorities straight, and they wanted better for me than they had gotten. They knew I'd be much better off with a college education and a clean slate when I started out than I with a pair of $80 sneakers or a sports car when I turned 16. I also learned a valueable lesson about the importance of being very careful with your money.

That's why this trend of borrow yourself into a hole, and keeping up with the Jonses even if it ruins you sort of bothers me. Are these people really doing their kids any favors? It took years for my parents values to sink into me, probably made harder by the fact that everyone else around me seemed to have unlimited money. It sort of troubles me they're probably raising a generation of kids with no ability to save and an entitlement complex.

Of course, most people are sheep...so what can I expect? If the flock is walking off a cliff...they'll follow the flock because its the thing to do.



:thumbsup:

Sounds a lot like my parents...except they never said "can't afford it" but rather "it's what you save, not what you spend" And my dad's favorite when purchase was requested "is it an asset or a liability" and this made us think in those terms at very early age.

As for as the financially ignorant. They are needed in our society to make others fotunes, move the economy, provide jobs, and for some technological advancements we have today. So we really sould'nt give them much grief really, but thank them instead.
 
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Every time I drive by the trailer park...the really crappy trailer park (there are a few nice ones around here) with about 6 feet in between trailers I'm always dumbfounded when I see a huge brand new Ford F-150 or a Mustang or even some luxury car in the driveway. What are these people thinking?
Living in Trailer Parks can be so exciting. Haven't you ever watched "Cops"?

I'm not knocking on trailer parks...but it seems if your car costs more than your house something isn't right in paradise.
 
Originally posted by: Zebo
:thumbsup:

Sounds a lot like my parents...except they never said "can't afford it" but rather "it's what you save, not what you spend" And my dad's favorite when purchase was requested "is it an asset or a liability" and this made us think in those terms at very early age.

As for as the financially ignorant. They are needed in our society to make others fotunes, move the economy, provide jobs, and for some technological advancements we have today. So we really sould'nt give them much grief really, but thank them instead.

LOL...yeah. I've had discussions like that with my best friend, who is probably the cheapest bastard in the universe. (I swear he's like one step from eating trash out of dumpsters to save on groceries) We always come back around to the point that...if everyone followed these principles it wouldn't be as easy for us. Their constant spending drives the costs of everything down really. And they make us look like better and better credit risks every day.

:beer: for the morons.
 
Originally posted by: Zebo

Hehe I think it's generational... My parents grew up in war torn europe... depression babies are the same way... Sam Walden a multi billionaire drove a 73 pickup and lived in a middle class subdivsion day he died.
My wife is like that too growing up in poor rural PA.. I'm sorta like you all with only my spouse to temper my waste..have a "another" bank account for my toys and shipments from newegg which get sent to my office🙂 For example i have two omegas and like fine scotch..😛 But I'm still pretty cheap and understand the basics.

I agree with this, and also think what your situation was as a child, your parents sound alot like my father was...he only had a few vices in his older day (had a nice watch and liked nice cars) but other than that was very very frugal. We lived in a very very small home, had very few posessions in terms of "nice" stuff (old ratty furniture, broken plates, old tv's and other electronics)...not saying my brother and I didn't get anything nice as if anything that is the furthest from the case, we got tons of stuff for hollidays and such and many expensive things, but as far as living and what not my parents (or I should say my father) was very modest which in a way makes me want to have a higher quality of life now..in a way it sucks though as I know I could be far more secure if I lived well below my means instead of just about at it.....

Nice that you have two Omegas, which are they if you don't mind my asking...I also enjoy fine scotch and nicer places to eat but generally I am pretty cheap overall and unlike others who I know that expect them to be handed everything I try to work my rear off for whatever I want.
 
Originally posted by: bozack
Hey Zebo,

I have tried reading that book, or I should say going out to buy it...but honestly while I respect those who can live like that, I personally cannot bank that far into the future....I have some stocks, and we are working on realestate with our new place and I drive a somwhat older car that unfortunately I bought new after getting my first job, and I repair anything that I can....but I can only be frugal to a degree, which is why I said this article somewhat hit home to me, as I enjoy having nice stuff and shopping at nice places (as does my wife) but often wonder if it is ultimately "worth it" and or what does it mean for those who are even more absorbed than we are? I know some real status mongers out there who only buy name brand whatever and their wallets suffer...I have too much of a "well I could die tommorow" complex which gets me to purchase sometimes on a whim that which I might not.

That's actually the same feeling I had about that book. I have not read it, but I did read a review that went over the nuts and bolts of it awhile back. While I agree with the principles of saving and planning for the future, as well as not buying things that you just don't need...I'm not a robot. I need to enjoy life at the same time.

The review went over how you could become a millionare by the time you were old...but what am I saving for? My death? I could have one hell of a funeral I guess...but I would have spent my entire life eating ramen noodles and riding a used tricycle to work.

When I see something that isn't a necessity that I want I first go: Think about it for a week. 90% of the time at the end of the week, I don't even want it anymore. After that think about it for like another week, deciding whether I'll really use it or not...and then if I really REALLY want it...I buy it.

I hardly ever buy anything extra with that method, but I still get the stuff that I really enjoy.
 
Also upon further reflection, I know many members like to blame cetain agendas, policies and what not on the economics which drive this country and also the state of well being...but I also wonder if people themselves are partially to blame as they strive for such things as these premium items....many have already have said they know more than a few who put themselves into serious debt trying to "live the dream"...and Dave has already came out and blamed the Neocon agenda, but really is this specifically a component of the "neocon agenda" or more of society's stupidity where people themselves are striving for that which is truly unnecessary..

I know far too many who live in the right here and right now (which I myself am guilty of) and spend on a whim because of what they see on MTV Cribs, in movies as being cool or in magazines.

I guess what I am getting at is....Are people themselves hurting debt in america by living beyond their means and does the media and what not assist in this problem by pushing the idea that said items are necessary to have a happy life....
 
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Originally posted by: bozack
Hey Zebo,

I have tried reading that book, or I should say going out to buy it...but honestly while I respect those who can live like that, I personally cannot bank that far into the future....I have some stocks, and we are working on realestate with our new place and I drive a somwhat older car that unfortunately I bought new after getting my first job, and I repair anything that I can....but I can only be frugal to a degree, which is why I said this article somewhat hit home to me, as I enjoy having nice stuff and shopping at nice places (as does my wife) but often wonder if it is ultimately "worth it" and or what does it mean for those who are even more absorbed than we are? I know some real status mongers out there who only buy name brand whatever and their wallets suffer...I have too much of a "well I could die tommorow" complex which gets me to purchase sometimes on a whim that which I might not.

That's actually the same feeling I had about that book. I have not read it, but I did read a review that went over the nuts and bolts of it awhile back. While I agree with the principles of saving and planning for the future, as well as not buying things that you just don't need...I'm not a robot. I need to enjoy life at the same time.

The review went over how you could become a millionare by the time you were old...but what am I saving for? My death? I could have one hell of a funeral I guess...but I would have spent my entire life eating ramen noodles and riding a used tricycle to work.

When I see something that isn't a necessity that I want I first go: Think about it for a week. 90% of the time at the end of the week, I don't even want it anymore. After that think about it for like another week, deciding whether I'll really use it or not...and then if I really REALLY want it...I buy it.

I hardly ever buy anything extra with that method, but I still get the stuff that I really enjoy.

Or just make more money😉 Blah like most things in life it's all about balance. Pay yourself first...say 10% and you won't even notice it and be that much closer to your goal every month compounding. Aviod "emotional" buys then maybe retire at 40 and fish every day/ I fished 275 times this year and I'm 33.

OH BOZACK I'm a creature of habit..they are identical not sure of name...seamaster I think
 
lol I grew up in Kent, WA, and my mom and most of my friends still live there. I've graduated to Seattlite. And Costco RULES!!
 
Originally posted by: PingSpike
That's actually the same feeling I had about that book. I have not read it, but I did read a review that went over the nuts and bolts of it awhile back. While I agree with the principles of saving and planning for the future, as well as not buying things that you just don't need...I'm not a robot. I need to enjoy life at the same time.

The review went over how you could become a millionare by the time you were old...but what am I saving for? My death? I could have one hell of a funeral I guess...but I would have spent my entire life eating ramen noodles and riding a used tricycle to work.

When I see something that isn't a necessity that I want I first go: Think about it for a week. 90% of the time at the end of the week, I don't even want it anymore. After that think about it for like another week, deciding whether I'll really use it or not...and then if I really REALLY want it...I buy it.

I hardly ever buy anything extra with that method, but I still get the stuff that I really enjoy.

Seems like we are of a similar mindset, while I enjoy a degree of frugailty I also don't want to pass up on having something that I truly want especially when it is within my needs....I guess all in moderation is fine for me, however I do respect those who can save save save and not give in to their "animal" instincts....

You actually seem to give purchases less time than I do as generally I think about it for a few months before I commit....and I have a very hard time having more than one of things deemed unnecessary unless we are talking about pens.
 
Originally posted by: Zebo

Or just make more money😉 Blah like most things in life it's all about balance. Pay yourself first...say 10% and you won't even notice it and be that much closer to your goal every month compounding. Aviod "emotional" buys then maybe retire at 40 and fish every day/ I fished 275 times this year and I'm 33.

OH BOZACK I'm a creature of habit..they are identical not sure of name...seamaster I think

Hey Zebo,

Yes I just addressed this in my last post wheras I cannot have multiples of the same thing without feeling bad unless it is pens, guess in your case it is watches 🙂

That is the Omega Seamaster professional james bond model, I am wondering if they are both quartz? if one is the automatic and the other quartz or both auto? your pic was slightly fuzzy so I couldn't tell....

Here is my one vice...well watch wise....

MY watch

Hope to sell it for this someday.....

New one
 
Both auto. I don't really every wear a watch...stupid purchase really. When I go to gym I wear my heart monitor watch made by polar that's it.🙁
 
Originally posted by: Crimson
I just spent 7 days in the Dominican Republic.. let me tell you, even the poorest Americans are wealthy compared to most of the people who live there. I don't think the middle class is shrinking, I think our definitions of 'wealthy', 'poor' and 'middle class' have changed.

Honestly, its insane what we have in the United States.. I saw true poverty while I was there, but I also saw people who were happy and made a living for themselves... there is no welfare there.. you work, or you don't eat.. Being 'poor' in the United States means having to settle for that mid 80's Caddy, or 1988 Chevy Cavellier as your mode of transportation.. instead of having to ride around on 20 year old mopeds if you are lucky.. and having to live in an apartment with only a window airconditioner instead of central air.. or perhaps several fans... instead of living in a 1 room shack with no windows, with your mother, father, brothers, sisters, cousins.. etc... being poor means having to use your food stamps to get your grocerys, instead of having to farm your own food and raise your own chickens.

Running water in the rural areas of the Dominican Republic meant you pumped rain water up to the roof your your house into a huge tank..

There is no true 'poverty' in the United States.. there is varying degrees of 'wealthy' as I see it.

Being poor doesn't mean settling for the 27inch Color TV with surround sound as opposed to the 42" Plasma with 5.1.. but thats honestly how we define it in this country. When I was in highschool (10 years ago now) we brought food to the 'hungry' during Thanksgiving. When we dropped off this food we saw what the poor had in our country. They all had TV's, they all had expensive tennis shoes, they all had nintendo, and stereo systems.. they all had cable.. they all had cars.. they all had stoves, pots, pans, running water, at least some fans, usually air conditioners, they all had running water, gas, furnaces, etc...

Thats not poverty.. it may not be 'rich', but its not poverty.. we have redefinited the poor in this country to mean those who who don't have as much as other people..

This whole 'The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer' line that people use is just BS.. The poor of today have WAY more than the poor of the 1970's.. and the 1950's.. and the 1920's.. etc.. etc.. etc.. We just keep raising the bar of what we consider poor, then make the statement that there are more poor people. Well, OK.. but lets be realistic.. do the poor of today live better than the poor of 20-30 years ago? Is there standard of living better? Of course, MUCH better.. Living in Poverty in the United States means living like a king in most 3rd and even 2nd world countries.. And I think thats the point this article was trying to make.. we all live the life of luxery in the United States to some extent..


I'm from India. In my country, being poor means that you wear a loincloth, and you do backbreaking labor in 110 degree heat. If you're lucky, you live in a straw hut, otherwise you eat, sleep, and crap on the streets. Your misery continues until you hit 40 which is likely when you die from something like tuberculosis.

People's accounts of "poverty" here in the states is usually enough to make me fall out of my chair laughing. Most poor people here own their own homes, cars, microwave ovens, televisions, etc.
 
Pfft...We have to same thing here Garuda. Naturally at Cornell you anit seeing it. I've been to a number of SE Asian countries, including the Phillipines and China, and honestly the levels of poverty in the USA match them. Go to inner cities sometime and you'll see plenty of 40 yr olds near thier death bed. IF they don't get shot already by gang bangers. I've seen beggars on the street almost everywhere I went in LA. Many places felt completely unsafe to be walking around. Some places felt unsafe to even be driving through. We have extremes here that are unacceptable for such a wealthy country IMO.
 
Thoughtful, interesting topic, bozack. While I'm as materialistic as the next person, I long ago realized that the wanting and the getting can far exceed the joy of having. Desire is a moving target, as far as I can see. When I was young, I worked and saved one entire summer to buy the stereo components of my dreams, which were seperates but would be solidly low/middle end by today's standards. Yet, because I worked so hard for them, I truly appreciated my system more fervently and deeply than I would anything I might choose to acquire today.

We are awash in a sea of goods, but I don't think they bring much happiness. I come out of a time and an ethos when people used to save for years for the things they truly wanted, then really appreciated them when they got them. Even the old line truly rich used to disdain conspicuous consumption.

When I was 30, I lived with and was engaged to a blue blood. Her mother was a Wharton, her father a Lippincott. She herself was worth 14 million, but her parents had way over 100 million. You know what kind of car they had? A Dodge Dart sedan! Her car was a deisel Golf (yeah, the head went). It used to be considered gauche to overindulge. Now, people seem to consider it their right.

When you have less, you more fully appreciate what you have. I'll soon be 54. When and where I grew up, the consumer society hadn't yet been fever pitched to kids. We wore tees, standard Lee/Levi/Wrangler (then Bell) jeans, stupid limberjack style coats in the winter, and black high top Converse Chuck Taylor All Stars, and that was that was that.

Sammy Sgro. His family name probably originally had a lot more consonants and syllables. For a couple of years, we walked home from our hideously overcrowded Catholic grade school together, so we'd stop and play in his yard until 4:30, when his Dad came home and they would eat supper, and I'd walk the last block and a half to my home. He had a bunch of brothers and sisters, mostly sisters. For some reason, his Mom was really fond of me.

Sometime around '63 or so, I remember Mr. Sgro finally parting with his black, beaten but unbowed, 1949 Chevy sedan. It was big news. I starkly remember Mr. Sgro coming out for one last look at the car that had served him so long and so well, and the guy nearly had tears in his eyes, his eyes welled up, because he'd loved and deeply apprciated his faithful companion. That somewhat small, dark skinned, soft spoken man scarcely ever had much to say, but this afternoon, his voice nearly breaking, he put his arm around Sammy and me and quietly talked about how much that car had meant to him, and how reluctant he was to let it go. I'll never forget that.

And if I have just one thing in my life that meant as much as that old Chevy meant to Mr. Sgro, then I'll consider myself a rich man indeed.
 
Originally posted by: Perknose
Thoughtful, interesting topic, bozack. While I'm as materialistic as the next person, I long ago realized that the wanting and the getting can far exceed the joy of having. Desire is a moving target, as far as I can see. When I was young, I worked and saved one entire summer to buy the stereo components of my dreams, which were seperates but would be solidly low/middle end by today's standards. Yet, because I worked so hard for them, I truly appreciated my system more fervently and deeply than I would anything I might choose to acquire today.

We are awash in a sea of goods, but I don't think they bring much happiness. I come out of a time and an ethos when people used to save for years for the things they truly wanted, then really appreciated them when they got them. Even the old line truly rich used to disdain conspicuous consumption.

When I was 30, I lived with and was engaged to a blue blood. Her mother was a Wharton, her father a Lippincott. She herself was worth 14 million, but her parents had way over 100 million. You know what kind of car they had? A Dodge Dart sedan! Her car was a deisel Golf (yeah, the head went). It used to be considered gauche to overindulge. Now, people seem to consider it their right.

When you have less, you more fully appreciate what you have. I'll soon be 54. When and where I grew up, the consumer society hadn't yet been fever pitched to kids. We wore tees, standard Lee/Levi/Wrangler (then Bell) jeans, stupid limberjack style coats in the winter, and black high top Converse Chuck Taylor All Stars, and that was that was that.

Sammy Sgro. His family name probably originally had a lot more consonants and syllables. For a couple of years, we walked home from our hideously overcrowded Catholic grade school together, so we'd stop and play in his yard until 4:30, when his Dad came home and they would eat supper, and I'd walk the last block and a half to my home. He had a bunch of brothers and sisters, mostly sisters. For some reason, his Mom was really fond of me.

Sometime around '63 or so, I remember Mr. Sgro finally parting with his black, beaten but unbowed, 1949 Chevy sedan. It was big news. I starkly remember Mr. Sgro coming out for one last look at the car that had served him so long and so well, and the guy nearly had tears in his eyes, his eyes welled up, because he'd loved and deeply apprciated his faithful companion. That somewhat small, dark skinned, soft spoken man scarcely ever had much to say, but this afternoon, his voice nearly breaking, he put his arm around Sammy and me and quietly talked about how much that car had meant to him, and how reluctant he was to let it go. I'll never forget that.

And if I have just one thing in my life that meant as much as that old Chevy meant to Mr. Sgro, then I'll consider myself a rich man indeed.

What happend america🙁


I even feel pressure sometimes for "conspicous consumption" and when i catch it I hate the fact I'm being manipulated unconsiously. We don't need all this sh1t, in fact it's a waste of both natual resources and time/work to get it.


Wonderful story BTW🙂
 
I don't know how old most of you guys are...but at least you seem to be able to remember the good old days. I'm only 23. They were dead already when I was born.
 
Originally posted by: PingSpike
I don't know how old most of you guys are...but at least you seem to be able to remember the good old days. I'm only 23. They were dead already when I was born.
Give it time, grasshopper. The past is also a moving target.
"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and
respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise
[disrespectful] and impatient of restraint" (Hesiod, 8th century BC).


 
Originally posted by: Crimson
I just spent 7 days in the Dominican Republic.. let me tell you, even the poorest Americans are wealthy compared to most of the people who live there. I don't think the middle class is shrinking, I think our definitions of 'wealthy', 'poor' and 'middle class' have changed.

Honestly, its insane what we have in the United States.. I saw true poverty while I was there, but I also saw people who were happy and made a living for themselves... there is no welfare there.. you work, or you don't eat.. Being 'poor' in the United States means having to settle for that mid 80's Caddy, or 1988 Chevy Cavellier as your mode of transportation.. instead of having to ride around on 20 year old mopeds if you are lucky.. and having to live in an apartment with only a window airconditioner instead of central air.. or perhaps several fans... instead of living in a 1 room shack with no windows, with your mother, father, brothers, sisters, cousins.. etc... being poor means having to use your food stamps to get your grocerys, instead of having to farm your own food and raise your own chickens.

Running water in the rural areas of the Dominican Republic meant you pumped rain water up to the roof your your house into a huge tank..

There is no true 'poverty' in the United States.. there is varying degrees of 'wealthy' as I see it.

Being poor doesn't mean settling for the 27inch Color TV with surround sound as opposed to the 42" Plasma with 5.1.. but thats honestly how we define it in this country. When I was in highschool (10 years ago now) we brought food to the 'hungry' during Thanksgiving. When we dropped off this food we saw what the poor had in our country. They all had TV's, they all had expensive tennis shoes, they all had nintendo, and stereo systems.. they all had cable.. they all had cars.. they all had stoves, pots, pans, running water, at least some fans, usually air conditioners, they all had running water, gas, furnaces, etc...

Thats not poverty.. it may not be 'rich', but its not poverty.. we have redefinited the poor in this country to mean those who who don't have as much as other people..

This whole 'The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer' line that people use is just BS.. The poor of today have WAY more than the poor of the 1970's.. and the 1950's.. and the 1920's.. etc.. etc.. etc.. We just keep raising the bar of what we consider poor, then make the statement that there are more poor people. Well, OK.. but lets be realistic.. do the poor of today live better than the poor of 20-30 years ago? Is there standard of living better? Of course, MUCH better.. Living in Poverty in the United States means living like a king in most 3rd and even 2nd world countries.. And I think thats the point this article was trying to make.. we all live the life of luxery in the United States to some extent..

Great post. I just returned from three years in one of the former Soviet Bloc countries. Project housing that is rejected by the so-called poor here would be luxury flats to most of those people. We are just a very fortunate nation whose people like to feel sorry for themselves.

 
Originally posted by: Infohawk
...meanwhile.... a woman dies because she didn't get a flu shot...

She died because she panicked and stood in line for a shot long enough that she fell and struck her head. That was sad, but doesn't need to be distorted. Flu season hasn't even started yet.

 
Originally posted by: Perknose
Thoughtful, interesting topic, bozack. While I'm as materialistic as the next person, I long ago realized that the wanting and the getting can far exceed the joy of having. Desire is a moving target, as far as I can see. When I was young, I worked and saved one entire summer to buy the stereo components of my dreams, which were seperates but would be solidly low/middle end by today's standards. Yet, because I worked so hard for them, I truly appreciated my system more fervently and deeply than I would anything I might choose to acquire today.

We are awash in a sea of goods, but I don't think they bring much happiness. I come out of a time and an ethos when people used to save for years for the things they truly wanted, then really appreciated them when they got them. Even the old line truly rich used to disdain conspicuous consumption.

When I was 30, I lived with and was engaged to a blue blood. Her mother was a Wharton, her father a Lippincott. She herself was worth 14 million, but her parents had way over 100 million. You know what kind of car they had? A Dodge Dart sedan! Her car was a deisel Golf (yeah, the head went). It used to be considered gauche to overindulge. Now, people seem to consider it their right.

When you have less, you more fully appreciate what you have. I'll soon be 54. When and where I grew up, the consumer society hadn't yet been fever pitched to kids. We wore tees, standard Lee/Levi/Wrangler (then Bell) jeans, stupid limberjack style coats in the winter, and black high top Converse Chuck Taylor All Stars, and that was that was that.

Sammy Sgro. His family name probably originally had a lot more consonants and syllables. For a couple of years, we walked home from our hideously overcrowded Catholic grade school together, so we'd stop and play in his yard until 4:30, when his Dad came home and they would eat supper, and I'd walk the last block and a half to my home. He had a bunch of brothers and sisters, mostly sisters. For some reason, his Mom was really fond of me.

Sometime around '63 or so, I remember Mr. Sgro finally parting with his black, beaten but unbowed, 1949 Chevy sedan. It was big news. I starkly remember Mr. Sgro coming out for one last look at the car that had served him so long and so well, and the guy nearly had tears in his eyes, his eyes welled up, because he'd loved and deeply apprciated his faithful companion. That somewhat small, dark skinned, soft spoken man scarcely ever had much to say, but this afternoon, his voice nearly breaking, he put his arm around Sammy and me and quietly talked about how much that car had meant to him, and how reluctant he was to let it go. I'll never forget that.

And if I have just one thing in my life that meant as much as that old Chevy meant to Mr. Sgro, then I'll consider myself a rich man indeed.

Sad story - when I was in RVN, I bought Sansui stereo equipment AND GOLD WAS $32.00 PER OUNCE!! I've gotten over it.

 
Originally posted by: Perknose
Thoughtful, interesting topic, bozack. While I'm as materialistic as the next person, I long ago realized that the wanting and the getting can far exceed the joy of having. Desire is a moving target, as far as I can see. When I was young, I worked and saved one entire summer to buy the stereo components of my dreams, which were seperates but would be solidly low/middle end by today's standards. Yet, because I worked so hard for them, I truly appreciated my system more fervently and deeply than I would anything I might choose to acquire today.

We are awash in a sea of goods, but I don't think they bring much happiness. I come out of a time and an ethos when people used to save for years for the things they truly wanted, then really appreciated them when they got them. Even the old line truly rich used to disdain conspicuous consumption.

When I was 30, I lived with and was engaged to a blue blood. Her mother was a Wharton, her father a Lippincott. She herself was worth 14 million, but her parents had way over 100 million. You know what kind of car they had? A Dodge Dart sedan! Her car was a deisel Golf (yeah, the head went). It used to be considered gauche to overindulge. Now, people seem to consider it their right.

When you have less, you more fully appreciate what you have. I'll soon be 54. When and where I grew up, the consumer society hadn't yet been fever pitched to kids. We wore tees, standard Lee/Levi/Wrangler (then Bell) jeans, stupid limberjack style coats in the winter, and black high top Converse Chuck Taylor All Stars, and that was that was that.

Sammy Sgro. His family name probably originally had a lot more consonants and syllables. For a couple of years, we walked home from our hideously overcrowded Catholic grade school together, so we'd stop and play in his yard until 4:30, when his Dad came home and they would eat supper, and I'd walk the last block and a half to my home. He had a bunch of brothers and sisters, mostly sisters. For some reason, his Mom was really fond of me.

Sometime around '63 or so, I remember Mr. Sgro finally parting with his black, beaten but unbowed, 1949 Chevy sedan. It was big news. I starkly remember Mr. Sgro coming out for one last look at the car that had served him so long and so well, and the guy nearly had tears in his eyes, his eyes welled up, because he'd loved and deeply apprciated his faithful companion. That somewhat small, dark skinned, soft spoken man scarcely ever had much to say, but this afternoon, his voice nearly breaking, he put his arm around Sammy and me and quietly talked about how much that car had meant to him, and how reluctant he was to let it go. I'll never forget that.

And if I have just one thing in my life that meant as much as that old Chevy meant to Mr. Sgro, then I'll consider myself a rich man indeed.

Perk,

I think you really hit home when you said that now people seem to consider overindulgence a right or they are entitled to it, I remember back when I was younger and going out with my parents to nicer places (very very rarely as they only went out once in a blue moon and when they did it was somewhere worth going) you would see people dressed to the nines but wearing very tasteful clothing and minimal amounts of jewelery, however today I see more people going to chain eateries wearing more branded and IMHO tacky items than ever before, driving their big suvs with chrome wheels and every ostentatious item they can carry.

I agree that the desire can and generally does superceede the joy of actually owning it, I have purchased many a thing that I "had" to have up until I got it, then you fret if it has a slight imperfection and worry non stop about its perfection....often times wishing you never got it in the first place 🙂

I think what is truly scary is what is happening to the youth of the nation especially with branding and image, I like you when growing up was not overly influenced by designer labels up until my senior year in high school which is when having the name brand really took off for everyone in my peer group...now I see children who are very very young buying and wearing clothing and having items which IMHO are crazy....whenever I speak with my wife's cousins who have to have abercrombie where a pair of jeans tops $80 I cringe.

I guess while I see accessability to pseudo luxury items as a good thing I sometimes think that people today are taking it a bit too far and are risking their finiancial future...I know many cite the job market as a cause for concern in the US with regards to growing personal debt, but I also think that this relatively new mindset of having the most expensive lifestyle or living well beyond ones means does not help the situation in the least....

Thanks for the great response, it is great to get away from all of the partisan issues and focus on something outside of the political spectrum that also has a bearing on our changing cluture.
 
Perknose: Very interesting quote. I guess people have been saying the youth will doom our society for hundreds of years and it hasn't happened. Perhaps we're worried for nothing. 😀

Originally posted by: bozack
I think what is truly scary is what is happening to the youth of the nation especially with branding and image, I like you when growing up was not overly influenced by designer labels up until my senior year in high school which is when having the name brand really took off for everyone in my peer group...now I see children who are very very young buying and wearing clothing and having items which IMHO are crazy....whenever I speak with my wife's cousins who have to have abercrombie where a pair of jeans tops $80 I cringe.
Heh. I remember purchasing a pair of name brand jeans at JC Penny. These particular jeans had the brand name prominately displayed. The guy checking me out was an older gentleman and said how he thought it was odd how when he was a kid NO ONE wanted any brand names visible on their clothes...and now everyone does.

I guess while I see accessability to pseudo luxury items as a good thing I sometimes think that people today are taking it a bit too far and are risking their finiancial future...I know many cite the job market as a cause for concern in the US with regards to growing personal debt, but I also think that this relatively new mindset of having the most expensive lifestyle or living well beyond ones means does not help the situation in the least....

The job market is a concern. However, I don't even think it shoulders the majority of the blame for the increase in personal bankrupties and increased debt. I think that lies largely on the individual. People are living to close to their means, so when a bump in the road hits...they fall off their wagon. Surely some are truely victims of bad luck...but I think most are victims of bad planning.

Thanks for the great response, it is great to get away from all of the partisan issues and focus on something outside of the political spectrum that also has a bearing on our changing cluture.

It is refreshing to see common ground found on this forum between those who usually disagree. I may disagree with what a lot of you guys say...but I can understand where you are coming from.
 
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Perknose: Very interesting quote. I guess people have been saying the youth will doom our society for hundreds of years and it hasn't happened. Perhaps we're worried for nothing. 😀

Heh. I remember purchasing a pair of name brand jeans at JC Penny. These particular jeans had the brand name prominately displayed. The guy checking me out was an older gentleman and said how he thought it was odd how when he was a kid NO ONE wanted any brand names visible on their clothes...and now everyone does.

The job market is a concern. However, I don't even think it shoulders the majority of the blame for the increase in personal bankrupties and increased debt. I think that lies largely on the individual. People are living to close to their means, so when a bump in the road hits...they fall off their wagon. Surely some are truely victims of bad luck...but I think most are victims of bad planning.


It is refreshing to see common ground found on this forum between those who usually disagree. I may disagree with what a lot of you guys say...but I can understand where you are coming from.

At least you are willing to shop at JC Penny, I know many younger people who won't even consider that a store worthy of looking at, instead they must have Disel, Hugo Boss, Lucky or any of the other much more expensive botique stores...but I do understand where that guy was comming from, branding on clothing for me wasn't known about until mid high school and I didn't get caught up in it due to peer pressure until my senior year, funny thing was it was the poorest of my friends who introduced me to designer labels wheras those who came from well to do families just didn't care. Seems as if now everyone wants to have a logo on their clothing, the best example I can think of are those womens purses from Louis Vuitton with the logo all over them, my wife finds them tacky (thank god since they are $700 and up) but just seeing all that badging makes me queasy, it is like people enjoy being walking billboards...

I also agree that people are living too close to their means, in many cases it is due to their lack of income however in most that I see personally it is from those who are trying to put off an image of affluence and sacrifice financial responsibility to do so...
 
Deepest thread ever!

Just a note, the trend you are all seeing in the US is occurring elsewhere as well. Australia's econimc boom over the last 4-5 years has been fueled by a combination of property price increases and easy property equity debt.
 
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