Pregnant Women Warned: Consent to Surgical Birth or Else

[abj13]

None of that matters, zilch, zero, nada.

She has a basic human right to deny certain forms of treatment.

We all have a basic human right to define what happens to our body.

So says the internet physician claiming her attempted decision was not "risky." Once shown your poorly understood medical knowledge is false, now you try to invalidate your claims. What was that you said?

Vaginal birth after c-section is "not" risky.

If the risk doesn't matter, why were you bragging how it is not "risky?" Leave the doctoring to the real doctors, not your poorly informed opinion.

 

[Texashiker]

So says the internet physician claiming her attempted decision was not "risky." Once shown your poorly understood medical knowledge is false, now you try to invalidate your claims. What was that you said?

How is 1 in 2,000 risky? Its not.

Even with those numbers how many women and/or children die?

If the risk doesn't matter, why were you bragging how it is not "risky?" Leave the doctoring to the real doctors, not your poorly informed opinion.

She has to live with the risk, not you, not the doctor, nor the judge.

This is not "just" about doctoring, it is also about basic human rights. We, all of us, have a basic human right to define our course of treatment.

Regardless of what the doctor says, or the hospital, or the judge, we all have a right to define what happens to our bodies.

 

[MrPickins]

More like Steve Jobs tells his doctor he wants to go a different route for treatment. His doctors gets a court order, the police go to Steves house, arrest him, bring him to the hospital where Steve is forced to undergo treatment against his will.

Was this woman arrested and forced to undergo a c-section?

Keep it up. One of these days you'll stumble on a valid analogy.


(After all, you know what they say about stopped clocks...)

Regardless of what the doctor says, or the hospital, or the judge, we all have a right to define what happens to our bodies.

Unless she wants an abortion, amirite?

 

[zinfamous]

I was not going to bring abortion into this topic. The two twos could be related since both deal with womens rights.

But I would rather this not veer into an abortion debate.

Fucking horseshit. It's in your very first post; and you and everyone here knows exactly what you meant:

For those of you who staunchly defend a womans right of "her body her choice", how do you feel about this?

Even though it is your body and your choice, a judge will issue an order to make someone go through an involuntary medical procedure.

Here's my advice: more time trying to be a good dad. Less time trolling here.

 

[werepossum]

The OP's article, which apparently no one read.

http://reason.com/archives/2014/07/31/hospitals-forcing-c-section-deliveries/

Life of the mother takes precedence, no?

I'm not saying it changes my original statement, and she could have specific medical history / concerns that greatly favor c-section, but it helps if we understand that VBAC are not inherently worse.

I did not understand that VBAC was potentially safer until Nehalem posted his link. Used to be that if you had one C-section, all subsequent births had to be C-section. I cannot however judge whether for this particular birth, those statistics apply.

EDIT: Texashiker does have a point about hospitals requiring certain procedures, but in the age of astronomical jury awards for malpractice which often isn't, I can certainly see why this practice exists. And in any case this is favoring medically safer procedures, although none of us can make informed specific judgements on this particular case.

 

[abj13]

How is 1 in 2,000 risky? Its not.

As already mentioned many posts ago that you failed to read, that risk does not apply to her. The risk of uterine rupture in a VBAC after a second c-section is 1.6%. Hers is even higher given this was her FOURTH pregnancy, in fact her risk for uterine rupture can't even be quantified, because hardly any women has undergone a VBAC in that situation.

And I suggest YOU read your links next time. 1 in 2000 is the risk of serious PERMANENT BRAIN DAMAGE TO THE BABY. That isn't high risk, based on what medical training?

 

[Texashiker]

As already mentioned many posts ago that you failed to read, that risk does not apply to her. The risk of uterine rupture in a VBAC after a second c-section is 1.6%. Hers is even higher given this was her FOURTH pregnancy, in fact her risk for uterine rupture can't even be quantified, because hardly any women has undergone a VBAC in that situation.

And I suggest YOU read your links next time. 1 in 2000 is the risk of serious PERMANENT BRAIN DAMAGE TO THE BABY. That isn't high risk, based on what medical training?

All that aside, do you have a human right to define what treatments you should receive?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

She has a basic human right to deny certain treatments.

So she has the moral right to force you to shoot her. OK.

Steve turned down surgery that could have saved his life.

That's nice. Suppose he wanted it and you to do it. Scrub up!

 

[Texashiker]

So she has the moral right to force you to shoot her. OK.

Nowhere near the same.

Do patients have a human right to define their course of treatment?

Yes or no?

 

[theeedude]

I'll give you credit, TH, you keep it semi-interesting, considering you are going in circles and repeating same thing over and over again. There has to be a good professional use for that talent.

 

[Texashiker]

I'll give you credit, TH, you keep it semi-interesting,

Thank you

considering you are going in circles and repeating same thing over and over again. There has to be a good professional use for that talent.

I am just waiting for someone to answer my question.

Seems everyone wants to beat around the bush.

All I want is a simple yes or no answer.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

All that aside, do you have a human right to define what treatments you should receive?

By all means define them as you wish. Now you are asked to saw off a persons legs to cure a headache. Do you have the right to force someone to do that?

This requires a "Yes" or "No"

I'll bet you can't do that.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Thank you



I am just waiting for someone to answer my question.

Seems everyone wants to beat around the bush.

All I want is a simple yes or no answer.

I'll give you a simple answer at least as far as I am concerned. No, she does not have the right to force people to harm her or her child.

 

[alzan]

Thank you



I am just waiting for someone to answer my question.

Seems everyone wants to beat around the bush.

All I want is a simple yes or no answer.

No you don't. You simply want to argue and to trap people into a corner with their answers.

You want black and white answers in a gray world.

It must suck to be you.

 

[Texashiker]

I'll give you a simple answer at least as far as I am concerned. No, she does not have the right to force people to harm her or her child.

No you don't. You simply want to argue and to trap people into a corner with their answers.

So no, people do not have the right to pick their course of treatment.

Is that what yall are saying?

 

[alzan]

So no, people do not have the right to pick their course of treatment.

Is that what yall are saying?

What I'm saying is that you're an ass.

And it's y'all, not yall.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

No you don't. You simply want to argue and to trap people into a corner with their answers.

You want black and white answers in a gray world.

It must suck to be you.

This happens when he's trapped. He seeks an unqualified yes or no, the implications of either would be that all parents and patient must be allowed to have everything or nothing. When faced with the outrageous consequences of such foolish requirements he proceeds to ignore them and just ask the same question over and over. Only a fool would believe a parent has the right to have their childrens limbs amputated in order to repair a cavity, but even worse he demands that the parents should be able to force others to do so. Bizarre.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

So no, people do not have the right to pick their course of treatment.

Is that what yall are saying?

See my prior post and lets go with that.

Does a parent have the right to demand their childs arms and legs be amputated in order to fix a cavity? If you say yes then you are despicable. If you say no then by your own words you are a suppressor of human rights.

So are you for the maiming of children or a tyrant? You leave yourself only one of these as a possibility.

 

[Texashiker]

What I'm saying is that you're an ass.

So yes patients do have a right to define their course of treatment, or no they do not?

Which is it?

This happens when he's trapped. He seeks an unqualified yes or no, the implications of either would be that all parents and patient must be allowed to have everything or nothing. When faced with the outrageous consequences of such foolish requirements he proceeds to ignore them and just ask the same question over and over. Only a fool would believe a parent has the right to have their childrens limbs amputated in order to repair a cavity, but even worse he demands that the parents should be able to force others to do so. Bizarre.

This is a basic human rights issue. A woman goes to a hospital and doctor for treatment, both tell her no.

To add insult to injury, the hospital threatens to get a court order, restrain her and perform a medical procedure against her will. What kind of nation do we live in where a hospital can threaten to restrain someone?

The judge rubbed salt in the wound by telling the woman no, she does not have the right to define her course of treatment.

What is so difficult to understand the doctor, the hospital and the judge trampled one of her most basic human rights.

 

[notposting]

Many hospitals wont do any VBACs due to the risk. This is just some stupid bitch trying to force her will on the hospital. dont like the policy, go somewhere else.

C-sections have higher risk of complications than VBACs. Facts are so annoying. But hitch yourself up to the American medical insurance money train hog while it feeds at the trough. Who exactly is the stupid bitch?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Pregnant Women Warned: Consent to Surgical ("C" Section) Birth At This Hospital Or Go To Another Hospital Or Facility That Will Allow you To Give Birth Vaginally

FTFY

 

[MrPickins]

Seems everyone wants to beat around the bush.

I seriously LOLed so loud one my coworkers asked me to forward a link.

You're accusing others of beating around the bush, Mr Refuses-to-answer-any-logical-questions? :biggrin:

 

[Texashiker]

FTFY

Not very many hospitals allow vaginal birth after c-section.

Did you read the article in the opening post? One lady had to drive 6 hours to find a hospital.

 

[alzan]

So yes TH does have a right to remain ignorant despite his ability to get a clue, or no TH does not?

FTFY

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Not very many hospitals allow vaginal birth after c-section.

Did you read the article in the opening post? One lady had to drive 6 hours to find a hospital.

Okay, let us know when you decide to underwrite the hospital's malpractice insurance. I'm sure you won't mind putting up your property as collateral....right???