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Pray to God for things to be easier

Originally posted by: boomerang
I like the pray for lower gas prices brigade.
Click to expand...

I'd rather pray for portable cold fusion units and put the middle east out of business overnight.
 
God isn't a genie. Prayer is communicating with God. Just as you wouldn't (or at least, I hope you wouldn't) talk to your parents only to demand them for stuff you want, you shouldn't pray to God just for what you want.

But even greater than that is the fact that you cannot just come to God on your own terms, whenever and however you like. Before you ever pray to God, you must realize that we humans are separated from God by our own sin. Unless you humble yourself, repent (turn away) from sin, and ask Him to save you, you cannot have a relationship with God. The condition of mankind is one of rebellion against a just King, and unless the rebellion ends, there cannot be fellowship between a man and God.

Once you have repented of sin, you can pray to God, and talk to Him through prayer. But again, prayer is not a wish list. You have to pray according to God's name/will. And that means actually knowing who God is. Just as a good parent won't just give a child whatever he/she wants, neither will God give a person whatever he/she asks for. You have to realize that God, and only God, can see the vast scope of history, and the consequences and results of every action, and He alone knows what is ultimately best. God will provide everything that we need, if we ask according to His name. And we can know what is according to His name by knowing His Word, the Bible, and by obeying Him.

Cliffs: Prayer is fellowship with God, not a way to get what you want.
 
Originally posted by: JEDI
or the basic win the lottery.


People think God is a genie in a lamp.

DISCUSS!
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You're right, this is such a flawed concept of God. God is more like a guy who doesn't do anything or manifest his existence in any way.
 
By praying, you're asking God to do away with his perfect plan, in favor of whatever you're asking.
Stop screwing with the balance of the Universe!



Originally posted by: Crono
God isn't a genie. Prayer is communicating with God. Just as you wouldn't (or at least, I hope you wouldn't) talk to your parents only to demand them for stuff you want, you shouldn't pray to God just for what you want.
Click to expand...
To count as "communication," information has to go both ways.
People who claim to hear God generally wind up institutionalized, for hearing voices that aren't there is a sign of a mental illness.




Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
You're right, this is such a flawed concept of God. God is more like a guy who doesn't do anything or manifest his existence in any way.
Click to expand...
And then punishes you for eternity for using logical analysis and the scientific process to determine that there exists no compelling evidence or proof of his existence.
You know, because he loves you.

 
maybe the reason god doesn't answer prayers is because he doesn't speak english. english is a hard language to learn, so do you really think he has time to learn it just to listen to the petty wants of some believers in english speaking countries?
 
By praying, you're asking God to do away with his perfect plan, in favor of whatever you're asking.
Stop screwing with the balance of the Universe!
Click to expand...

We are asking for something that we think coincides with his plan - if we thought God was against it do you think it would be the main topic of conversation?

To count as "communication," information has to go both ways.
People who claim to hear God generally wind up institutionalized, for hearing voices that aren't there is a sign of a mental illness.
Click to expand...

Care to give any examples of these people and how they demonstrate that they are Christians?

God speaks to me in many different ways - just because I don't have a dream where some glowing figure says "Do this" doesn't mean I can't understand and have a relationship with my savior.

And then punishes you for eternity for using logical analysis and the scientific process to determine that there exists no compelling evidence or proof of his existence.
You know, because he loves you.
Click to expand...

So the God you claim doesn't exist, now exists only to punish you for not believing? Not to be a jerk, but do you have any idea how cyclical what you just said was?

I believe God sacrificed his only son so we would never have to suffer in sin again if we believe in him - I don't remember ever reading that God only exists to punish, EVER.

As for the OP, this seems very cliche/goofy, but honestly I think the movie Evan Almighty put it best. "When you pray for courage, does God grant you courage, or does he give you opportunities to be courageous?". I prayed for patience and I got one heck of a challenge to deal with...

In Psalms it is written that God gives us our deepest desires - he put them on our hearts for a reason.

-Kevin
 
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
By praying, you're asking God to do away with his perfect plan, in favor of whatever you're asking.
Stop screwing with the balance of the Universe!
Click to expand...

We are asking for something that we think coincides with his plan - if we thought God was against it do you think it would be the main topic of conversation?
Click to expand...
So if it's already part of his plan, what's the point of praying?


To count as "communication," information has to go both ways.
People who claim to hear God generally wind up institutionalized, for hearing voices that aren't there is a sign of a mental illness.
Click to expand...

Care to give any examples of these people and how they demonstrate that they are Christians?

God speaks to me in many different ways - just because I don't have a dream where some glowing figure says "Do this" doesn't mean I can't understand and have a relationship with my savior.
Click to expand...
Off the top of my head, I have no examples. I know that there have been crazy people who have claimed to do things because "God told me to do it."
Demonstrate that they're Christians? There are lots of definitions of "Christian," and it's often in the eye of the beholder, and that eye tends to belong to many different people.



And then punishes you for eternity for using logical analysis and the scientific process to determine that there exists no compelling evidence or proof of his existence.
You know, because he loves you.
Click to expand...

So the God you claim doesn't exist, now exists only to punish you for not believing? Not to be a jerk, but do you have any idea how cyclical what you just said was?
Click to expand...
In order for me to argue about the nature of an entity I believe to be nonexistent, I must first assume its existence for the sake of argument.
And you want "cyclical," yet you are the one who apparently believes that the Bible is accurate because it says so.


I believe God sacrificed his only son so we would never have to suffer in sin again if we believe in him - I don't remember ever reading that God only exists to punish, EVER.
Click to expand...
I also did not suggest that he ONLY exists to punish. That's just one of the many things this deity does.
And if Jesus died for our sins, why do the effects of "original sin" still linger?


As for the OP, this seems very cliche/goofy, but honestly I think the movie Evan Almighty put it best. "When you pray for courage, does God grant you courage, or does he give you opportunities to be courageous?". I prayed for patience and I got one heck of a challenge to deal with...

In Psalms it is written that God gives us our deepest desires - he put them on our hearts for a reason.

-Kevin
Click to expand...

This too is cyclical. You believe in God's plan because of events like this - pray for courage, and you (eventually) get an opportunity for it. And in turn, you received courage, not because you prayed for it, but because it was in God's plan, as per your own statement.
Very circular logic. It's in the plan because it happened, and it happened because it's in the plan.

 
Praying is a waste of time. While there is still some part of me that wishes there was a magical land in the afterlife, there isn't going to be one. It will either be just nonexistence or reincarnation, those are the only two logical options IMO as much as I would hate to be nonexistent... do animals go to heaven? do dead fetuses go to heaven? is the magical man in the christian afterlife white? does he grant you wishes? is there sex in heaven? do they have computers? technology at all? what is the purpose? do you communicate? do dead babies communicate? do dead babies go to hell? can you get out of hell?

;p
 
Originally posted by: Jeff7
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
By praying, you're asking God to do away with his perfect plan, in favor of whatever you're asking.
Stop screwing with the balance of the Universe!
Click to expand...

We are asking for something that we think coincides with his plan - if we thought God was against it do you think it would be the main topic of conversation?
Click to expand...
So if it's already part of his plan, what's the point of praying?


To count as "communication," information has to go both ways.
People who claim to hear God generally wind up institutionalized, for hearing voices that aren't there is a sign of a mental illness.
Click to expand...

Care to give any examples of these people and how they demonstrate that they are Christians?

God speaks to me in many different ways - just because I don't have a dream where some glowing figure says "Do this" doesn't mean I can't understand and have a relationship with my savior.
Click to expand...
Off the top of my head, I have no examples. I know that there have been crazy people who have claimed to do things because "God told me to do it."
Demonstrate that they're Christians? There are lots of definitions of "Christian," and it's often in the eye of the beholder, and that eye tends to belong to many different people.



And then punishes you for eternity for using logical analysis and the scientific process to determine that there exists no compelling evidence or proof of his existence.
You know, because he loves you.
Click to expand...

So the God you claim doesn't exist, now exists only to punish you for not believing? Not to be a jerk, but do you have any idea how cyclical what you just said was?
Click to expand...
In order for me to argue about the nature of an entity I believe to be nonexistent, I must first assume its existence for the sake of argument.
And you want "cyclical," yet you are the one who apparently believes that the Bible is accurate because it says so.


I believe God sacrificed his only son so we would never have to suffer in sin again if we believe in him - I don't remember ever reading that God only exists to punish, EVER.
Click to expand...
I also did not suggest that he ONLY exists to punish. That's just one of the many things this deity does.
And if Jesus died for our sins, why do the effects of "original sin" still linger?


As for the OP, this seems very cliche/goofy, but honestly I think the movie Evan Almighty put it best. "When you pray for courage, does God grant you courage, or does he give you opportunities to be courageous?". I prayed for patience and I got one heck of a challenge to deal with...

In Psalms it is written that God gives us our deepest desires - he put them on our hearts for a reason.

-Kevin
Click to expand...

This too is cyclical. You believe in God's plan because of events like this - pray for courage, and you (eventually) get an opportunity for it. And in turn, you received courage, not because you prayed for it, but because it was in God's plan, as per your own statement.
Very circular logic. It's in the plan because it happened, and it happened because it's in the plan.
Click to expand...

and thus, if its in the plan, why the fuck pray for it in the first place? Carlin put it best. Don't pray for things, because this god character isn't going to bend over backwards to alter his plan, and answering prayers would in fact alter his plan. If you pray for something and it happens, it was in his plan. If you pray and nothing happens, it was in his plan. If it's in his plan, why are you bothering to waste his time with prayer? Ridiculous.

Religious folk always have a way to bend wording to make non-followers look like the clown, and to reinterpret things in historical texts to make them always be right, even if what they say may be backwards compared to what they had previously said. Arguing in any way with the religious is a worthless waste of effort, because their circular logic always hurts the brain of those of us with actual logic. 😛

Now, before any of the religious attack me, realize that one, I don't care. And two, I respect the right to have religious beliefs for those that want to believe. All I ask is that no one acts like a cynical prick because of what I choose not to believe. 😉 Or do, I don't care. 😛 I don't attack the religious, at least not individually. Unless that individual is a zealot.
 
So if it's already part of his plan, what's the point of praying?
Click to expand...

We don't know his plan so how there is no way of knowing if something is part of it until that point in time.

Also, God desires a personal relationship with each of his daughters/sons. Sure he knows your thoughts and feelings, but when you take the time and sit down and talk and just put all those thoughts and feelings that are on your shoulders and lift them to him, he takes them.

Off the top of my head, I have no examples. I know that there have been crazy people who have claimed to do things because "God told me to do it."
Demonstrate that they're Christians? There are lots of definitions of "Christian," and it's often in the eye of the beholder, and that eye tends to belong to many different people.
Click to expand...

Just because they claim to be Christian doesn't mean they are. In 1-3 John, he actually speaks of all the false prophets (Commonly referred to as the anti-christs (note: not THE anti-christ)) and warns us to watch out for them and to not be deceived.

Are those people killing? Are they hurting other people? If any of the following are true, then they are not following Jesus's commandment to "love one another" as he has loved us.

In order for me to argue about the nature of an entity I believe to be nonexistent, I must first assume its existence for the sake of argument.
And you want "cyclical," yet you are the one who apparently believes that the Bible is accurate because it says so.
Click to expand...

When did I ever say that? I posted my testimony and how I gave my life to Christ (even after being raised Lutheran) when I came to college - perhaps you should read through it before passing judgment on me.

I also did not suggest that he ONLY exists to punish. That's just one of the many things this deity does.
And if Jesus died for our sins, why do the effects of "original sin" still linger?
Click to expand...

As humans we are born into sin - but that same sin is taken away by the blood of Jesus by merely believing in him. It is a gift that we have to do nothing for but ask and truly mean it.

As for babies/small children (Which I am sure would come up if I didn't address this 😉 ) - it is my personal belief (after a lot of studying) that there is an age of accountability (Not necessarily and age as in years). Not only does Jesus say in Matthew that the heart of a child is pure, but he also says "Let the little children come" (This is only part of what I have found).

This too is cyclical. You believe in God's plan because of events like this - pray for courage, and you (eventually) get an opportunity for it. And in turn, you received courage, not because you prayed for it, but because it was in God's plan, as per your own statement.
Very circular logic. It's in the plan because it happened, and it happened because it's in the plan.
Click to expand...

Many things sound cyclical when you break something complex down to something simple like that 😉

-Kevin
 
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
So if it's already part of his plan, what's the point of praying?
Click to expand...

We don't know his plan so how there is no way of knowing if something is part of it until that point in time.
Click to expand...
Aren't you supposed to have faith in his plan though? By that reasoning, praying for something is because you believe that some aspect of your life has somehow deviated from his plan, almost like you're saying, "Um, God? Should this be happening? Did you screw up here?" It sounds kind of like you've lost faith then in doing that, in questioning something God's doing.


Also, God desires a personal relationship with each of his daughters/sons. Sure he knows your thoughts and feelings, but when you take the time and sit down and talk and just put all those thoughts and feelings that are on your shoulders and lift them to him, he takes them.
Click to expand...
But again, he has to talk back. If you say something to God, and then look around for evidence, you're going to fit aspects of your life into an expected response. It's along these lines: "When all you have is a hammer, your problems all start to look like nails."
If you pray for courage, the first opportunity where you think you can show courage suddenly becomes the "answer" to your prayer. Doing that is fitting evidence to match the desired results.




Off the top of my head, I have no examples. I know that there have been crazy people who have claimed to do things because "God told me to do it."
Demonstrate that they're Christians? There are lots of definitions of "Christian," and it's often in the eye of the beholder, and that eye tends to belong to many different people.
Click to expand...

Just because they claim to be Christian doesn't mean they are. In 1-3 John, he actually speaks of all the false prophets (Commonly referred to as the anti-christs (note: not THE anti-christ)) and warns us to watch out for them and to not be deceived.
Are those people killing? Are they hurting other people? If any of the following are true, then they are not following Jesus's commandment to "love one another" as he has loved us.
Click to expand...
Well again, you then need to figure out who's judging, and who's rightfully called a "Christian." By some measures, I'd say there was one true Christian, ever - Jesus. Everyone else is just close, but no cigar. By other measures, you just need to say, "I accept Jesus, amen," and you're in.



In order for me to argue about the nature of an entity I believe to be nonexistent, I must first assume its existence for the sake of argument.
And you want "cyclical," yet you are the one who apparently believes that the Bible is accurate because it says so.
Click to expand...
When did I ever say that? I posted my testimony and how I gave my life to Christ (even after being raised Lutheran) when I came to college - perhaps you should read through it before passing judgment on me.
Click to expand...
You said, "So the God you claim doesn't exist, now exists only to punish you for not believing? Not to be a jerk, but do you have any idea how cyclical what you just said was?"



I also did not suggest that he ONLY exists to punish. That's just one of the many things this deity does.
And if Jesus died for our sins, why do the effects of "original sin" still linger?
Click to expand...

As humans we are born into sin - but that same sin is taken away by the blood of Jesus by merely believing in him. It is a gift that we have to do nothing for but ask and truly mean it.
Click to expand...
So why do we still suffer the effects of original sin? Women still experience great pain during childbirth. Thorny plants still grow from the ground, and men still have to toil in the dirt.
Jesus died for our sins, but we have to deal with the punishments? What's the point then?


As for babies/small children (Which I am sure would come up if I didn't address this 😉 ) - it is my personal belief (after a lot of studying) that there is an age of accountability (Not necessarily and age as in years). Not only does Jesus say in Matthew that the heart of a child is pure, but he also says "Let the little children come" (This is only part of what I have found).
Click to expand...
Why parent a child then? If they're pure, won't contact with "impure" adults threaten that purity?



This too is cyclical. You believe in God's plan because of events like this - pray for courage, and you (eventually) get an opportunity for it. And in turn, you received courage, not because you prayed for it, but because it was in God's plan, as per your own statement.
Very circular logic. It's in the plan because it happened, and it happened because it's in the plan.
Click to expand...

Many things sound cyclical when you break something complex down to something simple like that 😉

-Kevin
Click to expand...
So the plan supposedly fails comprehension when it's in all its full glory, but fails basic logic when it's made explainable.
The expectation then seems to be: Follow that which you cannot possibly understand, and follow that which fails logically when it is explained.
Noooooo thank you.

 
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