PPU PhysX disabled for ATI too?

[SRoode]

Originally posted by: Shaq
I believe they had to pay to port it to the GPU. I probably wouldn't have bothered disabling it since it is so slow.

Who is "they"? Is it nVidia (since they now own the rights to Physx)? Why would nVidia have to pay nVidia?

Why would they have to "port" anything? The card is sitting in the slot ready to work.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: SRoode

Originally posted by: Shaq
I believe they had to pay to port it to the GPU. I probably wouldn't have bothered disabling it since it is so slow.

Who is "they"? Is it nVidia (since they now own the rights to Physx)? Why would nVidia have to pay nVidia?

Why would they have to "port" anything? The card is sitting in the slot ready to work.

I think he's talking about the R&D cost to NVIDIA after the acquisition for making PhysX run on their GPUs as opposed to only on AGEIA's PPU. NVIDIA bought the API and intellectual property from AGIEA, but it didn't run on NVIDIA hardware out of the box.

 

[Modular]

Originally posted by: thilanliyan

Originally posted by: Modular
you need to have satisfied customers, and those customers must come first. Decisions like this make me run to the red side.

These days it's about satisfying shareholders (and for the short term this might work)...one thing I don't like about publicly traded companies.

Right, and that's the real problem with many American (and foreign) companies these days. The bottom line can be made to look really good for one quarter by selling off a profitable part of a company. But the long-term cost of selling off a profitable division ends up hurting the company in the long run.

In this case it's the sacrifice of the long term (the customer) for the short term (the shareholder). It's a strategy that's full of fail. Just look at the general feel on these forums concerning nVidia these days. There's only a select few that still have the gall to back ridiculous decisions like these.

 

[SRoode]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: SRoode

Originally posted by: Shaq
I believe they had to pay to port it to the GPU. I probably wouldn't have bothered disabling it since it is so slow.

Who is "they"? Is it nVidia (since they now own the rights to Physx)? Why would nVidia have to pay nVidia?

Why would they have to "port" anything? The card is sitting in the slot ready to work.

I think he's talking about the R&D cost to NVIDIA after the acquisition for making PhysX run on their GPUs as opposed to only on AGEIA's PPU. NVIDIA bought the API and intellectual property from AGIEA, but it didn't run on NVIDIA hardware out of the box.

Okay, I'm confused.

1) Did the PPU work at one time with the older drivers? (From what I read, I assumed yes)
2) Does it work with the newer drivers? (From what I read, I assumed no)

If this is the case, why would nVidia disable Physx on a card that is supposedly slow and out of date, and not really a competitor at all?

If I read wrong... Sorry. I'm stupid I guess...

 

[YBS1]

I think we may be in the midst of watching a graphics giant fall (don't laugh it's happened before). I've always been fairly vendor neutral (motherboards, GPUs, soundcards, etc., etc., though I do tend to favor Intel platforms performance being equal or better even with a price premium), in fact I'm pretty certain I've owned at least two nVidia GPUs for every one ATI GPU I've owned. However, nVidia's actions as of late have left a very, very bad taste in my mouth. Enough so that I honestly don't know if I can bring myself to purchase a product from them again.

I'm running a 4890 at the moment so I wasn't really terribly pressed to jump at the first upgrade that came along. I was planning to wait it out and see what NV had to offer this generation before upgrading, I don't care to now. I'm just going to wait on the 5870 X2 and grab that. Stuff like this will hurt nVidia, and they just keep adding fuel to the fire. Remember, over time the mainstream follows the enthusiasts and you can plainly see from recent threads here and similar sites the vendor agnostic, middle of the road'ers are up in arms about recent happenings. Which way do you think they are leaning now?

Soon enough nV will have to also deal with the 800lb gorilla in the room as well. Now like most I don't really believe Intel's initial entry into the discrete GPU market is going to be all that spectacular, but I also don't think they are going to quit this time like they did previously. They do have the clout and money to push nV around. What would the nVidia zealots say about vendor lockouts then? "We're sorry, we just can't assure the reliable operation of CPU turbo mode/dual-triple channel memory/16X pci-e mode etc. while using GPUs manufactured by non x86 licensed vendors."

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: SRoode
Okay, I'm confused.

1) Did the PPU work at one time with the older drivers? (From what I read, I assumed yes)
2) Does it work with the newer drivers? (From what I read, I assumed no)

If this is the case, why would nVidia disable Physx on a card that is supposedly slow and out of date, and not really a competitor at all?

If I read wrong... Sorry. I'm stupid I guess...

No, you got it right. It really doesn't make any sense in terms of the PPU being too slow to really make it worthwhile, but NVIDIA disabled PhysX on everything that used to run PhysX if the primary GPU was not an NVIDIA GPU.

 

[T2k]

Since I already posted the solution why are we still debating this?

Just updated my Catalyst etc and run Fluidmark (confirmed HW PhysX) in 1920x1200: http://www.ozone3d.net/benchma...f2593aa4ccd85b35860e52

And yes, Nvidia is acting as usual, an utter PoS, worthless giant corporate douchbag - what's the news?

Nvidia was always about making as much money as possible and nothing else.

 

[extra]

Whut..but...but...I thought physX was an open platforahahaha damnit I can't make it all the way through that sentence without laughing.

(And yes my video card actually is an nvidia card---at this rate I don't think the next one will be though).

 

[HurleyBird]

Well, looks like it's been confirmed. Nvidia, you truly are a disappointment. I've bought 5 of your GPUs but now you've permanently lost a customer. Disgusting.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: HurleyBird
Well, looks like it's been confirmed. Nvidia, you truly are a disappointment. I've bought 5 of your GPUs but now you've permanently lost a customer. Disgusting.

I agree. I think NVIDIA's strategy was to make customers re-think their gpu purchase based on PhysX capability. Imagine they will succeed on this, but they may not like the conclusion that we come up with.

I purchased a GTX 280 last year for $500+, and it would have been nice to actually keep using it for PhysX with whatever card I buy this year. However, due to NVIDIA's antics I sold it for $175, which is a pretty substantial loss even for a video card. While I won't say I have sworn off NVIDIA forever, I will certainly consider how much NVIDIA values its customers in the long term. It might be NVIDIA's job to maximize their shareholder's profits, but it's my job to maximize my income and stretch it to meet my needs/wants.

 

[Wreckage]

The problem with supporting this is that people will try to run it on Vista. Thanks to Vistas driver scheme it won't work. So people will complain. Better to just disable it and avoid the headache.

The best part about this is how many ATI fans say "PhysX is useless" and then cry when they can't get it to work. Priceless. Truly priceless.

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
The problem with supporting this is that people will try to run it on Vista. Thanks to Vistas driver scheme it won't work. So people will complain. Better to just disable it and avoid the headache.

That's the lamest argument yet. Even worse than "We can't test every configuration with AMD cards, so best to just disable it... even though it worked ok before."

 

[Extrem1st]

Originally posted by: T2k

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
Ah, the Demerjian clan.
How can I help?
PhysX has been disabled when ATI cards are present in the system. Why are any of you surprised? What would be the point of disabling only Nvidia GPU's running PhysX alongside an ATI card and still let PhysX PPU's do it? If they had, might as well have never blocked PhsyX in the first place.

A paid NV mouthpiece trying to make a laughably nonsensical excuse?
Color me surprised...


Please dial back your tendency to personally insult those you disagree with or you will earn yourself some time off from here.

Perknose
Senior AT Mod

lol

 

[Extrem1st]

Originally posted by: Shaq
Nvidia owns the rights to PhysX. End of story. The PPU is too weak to run modern games anyway. I have tried it and performance was worse using it with 260 SLI.

LOL End of story, spoken like a true nvidiot.

 

[MrK6]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: HurleyBird
Well, looks like it's been confirmed. Nvidia, you truly are a disappointment. I've bought 5 of your GPUs but now you've permanently lost a customer. Disgusting.

I agree. I think NVIDIA's strategy was to make customers re-think their gpu purchase based on PhysX capability. Imagine they will succeed on this, but they may not like the conclusion that we come up with.

I purchased a GTX 280 last year for $500+, and it would have been nice to actually keep using it for PhysX with whatever card I buy this year. However, due to NVIDIA's antics I sold it for $175, which is a pretty substantial loss even for a video card. While I won't say I have sworn off NVIDIA forever, I will certainly consider how much NVIDIA values its customers in the long term. It might be NVIDIA's job to maximize their shareholder's profits, but it's my job to maximize my income and stretch it to meet my needs/wants.

Right, some companies, for whatever reason, become arrogant/greedy at some point, forgetting that a customer base still provides their bread and butter. I imagine a lot of people with cards from the 8800GT line are pissed right now that they've been pigeonholed. Not officially supporting it is different from outright disabling. NVIDIA obviously went with the latter. I'm in the same boat of "never say never" but I too will seriously reconsider purchasing any NVIDIA products in the future if this is how they treat customers.

Originally posted by: Wreckage
The problem with supporting this is that people will try to run it on Vista. Thanks to Vistas driver scheme it won't work. So people will complain. Better to just disable it and avoid the headache.
The best part about this is how many ATI fans say "PhysX is useless" and then cry when they can't get it to work. Priceless. Truly priceless.

And? Why is that a problem? Disabling the functionality completely is an underhanded move to corner a market and the excuse "oh, we can't support it" is lame. Honestly, come up with a better reason or don't post.

 

[Atechie]

First the red team declare that PhysX is useless...and then they whine when they can't useit...get real :roll:

 

[MrK6]

Originally posted by: Extrem1st

Originally posted by: T2k

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
Ah, the Demerjian clan.
How can I help?
PhysX has been disabled when ATI cards are present in the system. Why are any of you surprised? What would be the point of disabling only Nvidia GPU's running PhysX alongside an ATI card and still let PhysX PPU's do it? If they had, might as well have never blocked PhsyX in the first place.

A paid NV mouthpiece trying to make a laughably nonsensical excuse?
Color me surprised...


Please dial back your tendency to personally insult those you disagree with or you will earn yourself some time off from here.

Perknose
Senior AT Mod

lol

The best part is there's no insult in that statement (unless being called part of the NVIDIA focus group is an insult, and hey, I won't argue against that ); did someone go running to a mod for calling it like it is? Hilarious.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: MrK6

And? Why is that a problem?

Post your phone number, have em all call you. I bet you would start to see a problem

 

[WelshBloke]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
The problem with supporting this is that people will try to run it on Vista. Thanks to Vistas driver scheme it won't work. So people will complain. Better to just disable it and avoid the headache.

Yeah

They should disable all dx10 calls as well, I mean they don't work in XP.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: Atechie
First the red team declare that PhysX is useless...and then they whine when they can't useit...get real :roll:

Curiously people that can complain about this are nvidia costumers... I'm sure people that only own ATI products don't care if nvidia disable nvidia hardware.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
The problem with supporting this is that people will try to run it on Vista. Thanks to Vistas driver scheme it won't work. So people will complain. Better to just disable it and avoid the headache.

The PhysX PPU works fine under Vista with another video card. I ran it along side an X1900XTX for quite a while until the fan starting giving out (the PPU, not the X1900). The PPU isn't a graphical device, so it doesn't use WDDM drivers and hence Vista's limitations do not come in to play.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
The problem with supporting this is that people will try to run it on Vista. Thanks to Vistas driver scheme it won't work. So people will complain. Better to just disable it and avoid the headache.

The best part about this is how many ATI fans say "PhysX is useless" and then cry when they can't get it to work. Priceless. Truly priceless.

Physx is useless in it's current state. The reason you see so many people posting in these threads is because we are amazed at Nvidia's complete disregard for their customers. Customers who paid for Nvidia's product for the reason of using it to perform it's advertised function.

 

[v8envy]

Yo. Current nvidia customer here representin'. And yes, today PhysX is useless. This may or may not have changed with wider adoption and support. That's not the bone of contention -- NV has decided the way to maximize shareholder equity is by marginalizing the current customer base. Including enthusiasts.

That is precisely why I am becoming an ATI customer instead.

I intended to keep my 8800GT to use as a physics processor instead of selling it or giving it away -- the cost is low enough, just in case there is some future benefit. Similar intentions on behalf of tens of thousands of current cusotmers may have a trickle down effect on sales of current NV hardware. Someone getting a hand-me-down 8800GT would have otherwise forked over for a budget or lower mainstream card retail.

Since NV clearly doesn't want enthusiasts to keep their hardware around and would rather have that hardware compete with today's low end sales I for one will respect their wishes.

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
The problem with supporting this is that people will try to run it on Vista. Thanks to Vistas driver scheme it won't work. So people will complain. Better to just disable it and avoid the headache.

The best part about this is how many ATI fans say "PhysX is useless" and then cry when they can't get it to work. Priceless. Truly priceless.

You know whats really funny? In 2001 to recently this place was pretty nvidia pro. What happened during that time to create all these people who don't like your product? Maybe you and the company you work for should look inside to better understand this shift.

 

[T2k]

Originally posted by: Extrem1st

Originally posted by: T2k

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
Ah, the Demerjian clan.
How can I help?
PhysX has been disabled when ATI cards are present in the system. Why are any of you surprised? What would be the point of disabling only Nvidia GPU's running PhysX alongside an ATI card and still let PhysX PPU's do it? If they had, might as well have never blocked PhsyX in the first place.

A paid NV mouthpiece trying to make a laughably nonsensical excuse?
Color me surprised...


Please dial back your tendency to personally insult those you disagree with or you will earn yourself some time off from here.

Perknose
Senior AT Mod

lol

Yeah, it's nice to see that a Mod, especially an "Nvidia Focus Group"-badged one can start the name calling free at will but I get warned when I throw back at him, completely correctly, as he is what I said (NV Focus Group badge clearly shows it.)