Ppl in high cost states - How do you save money?

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z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,010
66
91
I assume the interest on the car is really low, ~2%? Pay it off faster, but don't kill yourself and your savings doing it. The real killer is cc debt or any debt that has interest above inflation + expected S&P growth, where you should be parking savings. Car debt is bad msotly because it's a chunk of money that could be going elsewhere. As long as its low interest, it isn't the worst (but it also isn't deductible like student loan debt)
3.5% rate for the car. Bought it used.

im curious where you live that you have that sweet deal on rent

even where i am in middle of fuck no where NY a non shithole place is more expensive to rent than that.
You'd be surprised though based on just the state, due to property taxes and value of the dollar there how much prices change. NY's prop taxes are still kind of high on the whole. TX is extremely low, same with states around me like PA. 30 mins away from where I live in NJ, is a little cluster of small towns (Easton, Phillipsburg) in which a GIANT house in brand new shape would go for only $400k, and the same exact house in my neighborhood would cost over $1M.

My gf's cousin just built a brand new home in PA about an hour and a half from us, and they are on a single income and have 4 small kids. The dad works from home, I believe he's a software dev. but I know for a fact he doesn't make as much as my gf and I combined. Yet, here we are dishing out over $2k a month for rent and utilities for an 800sqft condo, and they prob pay less than that a month for their 3000sqft gorgeous home.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
yea im aware of that, where i live in NY is all messed up, assuming you can afford a down payment a mortgage on a standard house is cheaper than renting a decent apt even when factoring in property taxes and such
 

RearAdmiral

Platinum Member
Jun 24, 2004
2,280
135
106
Another option I have is to move to PA. One guy at work and a friend we know does this. Housing is literally 50% of what it is here in NJ but you can work near the bigger cities (if you don't mind a 90 min commute) while still making the higher NJ salary.

I'd just need to make sure I could get 200k+ miles out of a car otherwise I'd be buying a new one every 4 years.

I live in PA and commute about an hour into NJ. 1 hour is quite tolerable for me and my co-workers get really upset when they find out my mortgage payment.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,746
6,620
126
I live in PA and commute about an hour into NJ. 1 hour is quite tolerable for me and my co-workers get really upset when they find out my mortgage payment.
Why would they get mad? Do your coworkers not understand the basic concept that it's cheaper to live where there is less demand?
 
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z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,010
66
91
I live in PA and commute about an hour into NJ. 1 hour is quite tolerable for me and my co-workers get really upset when they find out my mortgage payment.
I'm doing about 45 mins and that's tolerable.. But the 70-90 I did sucked pretty bad.

Plus there's the intangibles of living in PA like, how good are the schools, are there good/active sports teams for kids to join, etc. I know where I am in NJ, I have a huge selection of golf courses and hockey things to do, so that aspect is probably not going to be beat.
 

RearAdmiral

Platinum Member
Jun 24, 2004
2,280
135
106
I'm doing about 45 mins and that's tolerable.. But the 70-90 I did sucked pretty bad.

Plus there's the intangibles of living in PA like, how good are the schools, are there good/active sports teams for kids to join, etc. I know where I am in NJ, I have a huge selection of golf courses and hockey things to do, so that aspect is probably not going to be beat.

heh I usually hear those comments to justify my co-workers continuing to stay in NJ. I feel bad for some of these guys paying $3k+ a month on okay homes.

The balance of financial freedom and things to do weighs out pretty good for me where I currently live. I'm okay with driving 20-30 minutes to get to hotspots of activity. Besides, everyone in NJ is mean.
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,010
66
91
heh I usually hear those comments to justify my co-workers continuing to stay in NJ. I feel bad for some of these guys paying $3k+ a month on okay homes.

The balance of financial freedom and things to do weighs out pretty good for me where I currently live. I'm okay with driving 20-30 minutes to get to hotspots of activity. Besides, everyone in NJ is mean.
I thought that too but everybody I work with is pretty nice. No different than when I worked in NY and CT.
 

WhoBeDaPlaya

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2000
7,415
404
126
yea im aware of that, where i live in NY is all messed up, assuming you can afford a down payment a mortgage on a standard house is cheaper than renting a decent apt even when factoring in property taxes and such
That sounds painful. I really should look into buying rather than renting (~4 years now), but with the more limited semicon opportunities in Dallas, there's a good chance I'll move to Austin sooner rather than later.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
52,321
7,602
136
Ppl in high cost states - How do you save money?

I'm in CT now, really my only complaint is the cost. But generally, no wildfires, earthquakes, droughts, hurricanes, gators, endless mosquitos, flooding, tornadoes, extreme temperatures, etc., so it's nice because there's not really any major natural disasters that happen in a big way here. Anyway, two big things are food & entertainment bills. Cut cable & went to Netflix, that saved like $150/mo. Also started cooking way more at home (yay appliances) & recently got a deep freezer to buy food in bulk from Sam's/Costco/BJ's/local grocery sales. It's crazy because your food bill can vary from hundreds to thousands a month depending on how you eat.

If you haven't done it already, start tracking every penny you spend - guessing is useless, you need to know exactly where your money goes, and you do that by tracking everything 100% for awhile. Just a simple gDocs spreadsheet, one worksheet per month, do it for 3 months. Optionally use Mint or another tool if you want to auto-categorize, but as you spend & then look at the numbers & lump them into what groups you're spending on, you'll start to see where you can save money. One rule I have is cash or bust. Only exceptions for debt are a reasonable house, reasonable car, and education/training for job (i.e. college). I've mentioned in another thread we basically do a weekly allowance. Paychecks go to bank, bank auto-pays bills, his & hers reloadable AMEX Serve cards with weekly auto-transfers for set amounts, plus a small $1k credit card for gas (due to the $150 hold they put on these days) & emergencies, which gets auto-paid off monthly. Rent, car, school debt is OK, everything else we save up for & pay cash, no credit or loans. It's limiting in some ways because you don't get instant gratification unless you have savings, but it's also nice to know you own what you own. Plus once you get into the habit of saving up, it's pretty easy...tuck $20 a week away into something like Smartypig & boom, every 2 years you can buy a new $2,000 computer. Then you don't have to shell out $2k up front, unless you're ballin', then it doesn't matter haha.

Being able to afford living in an expensive state is more about where you put your money than how much you make, at least up to a certain point (obviously on poverty level, there's only so much you can manage because the available fundage pool is smaller). I have friends who drink $100 away every weekend, complain about never having any money, but aren't willing to change. I have friends who chain smoke; I think pack minimums are $9 or $10 each (at least) in CT. Those habits can be $300, $400, $500 a month easily. Going out to eat is a huge money drain, even if it's just fast-food - it adds up pretty quickly. More for girls, but shopping addictions are huge. Retail therapy, especially on credit, can really kill your budget (or, uh, Amazon Prime...lol).

Bigger picture, a good starter book is Rich Dad, Poor Dad. The main takeaway is understanding what income, assets, expenses, and liabilities truly are. A house is a liability because it costs you money every month to own & operate (house = liability is a principle a lot of people have a really hard time grasping). Most people don't have any real assets (i.e. things that put money in your pocket every month, other than a job paycheck). Stuff like that. Another good thing to look into is FI/ER, not so much for early retirement as much as just getting your financial picture organized & planning ahead into the future.

So other than cutting costs, automating things as mentioned above is another good trick. Spend less than you earn, which you do by tracking every little thing for a few months to get a clear picture, setting limits for yourself (ex. allowance on a separate card), setting rules for yourself (ex. anything that isn't a house/car/school is cash-only, not to be spread out over months on a credit card). I mean, everyone has a different approach, this is just one way, but I like being nearly completely hands-off thanks to the system automation. Never really have to think about it, just a few minutes a week to make sure everything is kosher. Obviously you can get into investments, churning, side jobs, all kinds of stuff, just depends on where you want to put your money & your time.

But anyway, TL;DR: for me, cut entertainment & food costs. Track what you spend so you know what you spend down to the last penny, automate the system, spend less than you make. Regular house/car/schooling debt is OK; everything else is cash-only (from savings or from saving up). I'm not living a life of luxury by any means, but I've got a decent place to live, nice TV, good food, etc. Have to work for a living, but that's life eh? :D
 
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z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,010
66
91
^^ I have done this already, as far as tracking where all money goes and which are my highest costs.

Basically, I don't go out to eat often. 1-2x per month with the ball & chain. Most of my extra $$ ends up getting dumped into Golf/Hockey. About $900 per year on hockey, and ~$160 a month or so on playing golf.

I also just built a new PC because my current one crapped the bed (it lasted 6 years luckily) so that was a decent chunk of change. I can't "cut" golf and hockey out of my life, and hockey season costs what it costs. I could golf less, which I technically do in the winter (don't play at all) but I think it's normal to want to play once a week during the summer for $40 a pop. Otherwise, I'd have no life and be miserable. I don't have friends so pretty much cutting those social activities turns me into a hermit.

G/f insists on having cable, so I make her pay it, even though I'm 100% cool with Netflix/streaming sports.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
52,321
7,602
136
^^ I have done this already, as far as tracking where all money goes and which are my highest costs.

Basically, I don't go out to eat often. 1-2x per month with the ball & chain. Most of my extra $$ ends up getting dumped into Golf/Hockey. About $900 per year on hockey, and ~$160 a month or so on playing golf.

I also just built a new PC because my current one crapped the bed (it lasted 6 years luckily) so that was a decent chunk of change. I can't "cut" golf and hockey out of my life, and hockey season costs what it costs. I could golf less, which I technically do in the winter (don't play at all) but I think it's normal to want to play once a week during the summer for $40 a pop. Otherwise, I'd have no life and be miserable. I don't have friends so pretty much cutting those social activities turns me into a hermit.

G/f insists on having cable, so I make her pay it, even though I'm 100% cool with Netflix/streaming sports.

That's good, you're ahead of most people then. That's why stuff like the Dave Ramsey snowball system works, most people pay next to zero attention to their finances. But it's like anything else, same with H&F, one day you wake up & want to do better.

And that's the whole point of budgeting, not only to allow you to live but to allow you to do what you (reasonably) want, whether that's hockey or golf or whatever.

CT & NE in general is nuts tho. I need to move somewhere cheaper to live :p
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,010
66
91
That's good, you're ahead of most people then. That's why stuff like the Dave Ramsey snowball system works, most people pay next to zero attention to their finances. But it's like anything else, same with H&F, one day you wake up & want to do better.

And that's the whole point of budgeting, not only to allow you to live but to allow you to do what you (reasonably) want, whether that's hockey or golf or whatever.

CT & NE in general is nuts tho. I need to move somewhere cheaper to live :p
I was in CT for 6 years. Moved to NJ. NJ is somehow like 2x as expensive in everything (slight exaggeration) other than gas. The real killer is the price of homes and rent.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,450
126
Moved from CT to NJ this year, and got just a minor bump in pay, barely enough to cover the higher cost of living. I got bored at work yesterday and was looking around at slightly larger condo's in the area to see what rent was like once I need to upgrade size.

It seems like going from 2 beds --->3 beds makes the price jump a huge amount if you aren't willing to live in a dump in my area. I pay $1850 right now for a 2bed 2bath that's about 800sqft. To add just an extra bedroom, makes prices go over $2400 on average. Long story short... assuming I only get raises barely above inflation for the foreseeable future, even with no car payment or student loans, how the heck do middle class people afford a family? My g/f and I make quite above the median income level, yet with her student debt, my student debt, car loans, etc.. I'm really not sure how we will be able to live in a bigger place, let alone afford the kids to fill said space. No clue how we'd even begin to save up for a house.

Are we now in a generation of life long renters who can't get ahead until their mid 40s?

I have to wonder where you lived in CT if you cost of living actually went up by moving to New Jersey. Near the western coastline, I seem to be paying NYC level pricing and taxes for many items.
 

TwiceOver

Lifer
Dec 20, 2002
13,544
44
91
Wow. Yeah, I don't know how people save in major cities unless you have some crazy awesome job. I get the appeal of big city big living, but it's just not for me.

Good luck man, get rid of your payments is about all I got.
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,010
66
91
I have to wonder where you lived in CT if you cost of living actually went up by moving to New Jersey. Near the western coastline, I seem to be paying NYC level pricing and taxes for many items.
Near RI, southern tip of CT.

FWIW, my rent was $1200 and now I pay $1850 for something about the same size.
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,010
66
91
Make more money, buy less shit, or move.

I can't believe an adult is asking this question.
I love how simply ATOT makes life seem. Why didn't I think of this?!?!

This is more of a gauge to see if folks around my age truly are able to save money or not. If they are, yes of course make more money, but it's not THAT simple. Cut costs, yes, but what specifically? Move, sure.. but then income may go down, plus my g/f is only licensed to practice in this state, and she's locked in for another year. Furthermore, her mom will give us free kid care once that time comes. If we move any further away, I highly doubt she's going to leave the husband behind just to come take care of our chillunz.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
41,298
10,443
136
Speaking for myself, I live in one of the highest cost areas in the country. I am frugal, I've learned to be over a long period of time because I've found it difficult to have what they call "disposable income." I seldom eat out, I pay less for groceries than most although I buy quality food, which I prepare myself.

I don't have expensive tastes. I get my DVDs from the library, mostly. I don't have subscription TV (rooftop antennas instead). Debt is something I've almost never had. I paid off my student loans in short order.

I suppose I got good at this because for the longest time the jobs I was able to find were arduous to the point where there was little temptation to spend my money on anything I didn't need.

- - - -
He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have. - Socrates
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,741
456
126
I love how simply ATOT makes life seem. Why didn't I think of this?!?!

This is more of a gauge to see if folks around my age truly are able to save money or not. If they are, yes of course make more money, but it's not THAT simple. Cut costs, yes, but what specifically? Move, sure.. but then income may go down, plus my g/f is only licensed to practice in this state, and she's locked in for another year. Furthermore, her mom will give us free kid care once that time comes. If we move any further away, I highly doubt she's going to leave the husband behind just to come take care of our chillunz.

Yes, I was being kind of a dick to make a point... but the point is still valid and really IS that simple.

Everything you posted is totally valid, and yes it appears to make things more complicated. However, everything you mentioned has a cost that can be put into a finance program or just a simple spreadsheet to do comparisons about your options. Compare child care costs vs. decrease in rent in another location if you did move. You should be able to come up with a number that answers the question: How much do we have to save on the rent to make losing the support of the MIL affordable?

If child care is so expensive that it's not feasible at all, then you have to look at your income. What does your income have to be to afford your rent goal? How much of a raise do you need? Have you asked for a raise? Have you asked what you have to do to reach your income goal? Companies rarely just give large raises out, as it makes business sense to pay what they're happy with. If you don't say anything, then they assume you're happy with what you get and any more would just be an extra cost for them. Once you bring up that you have a specific income goal and you're very serious about meeting it, you might be surprised how much they're willing to work with you. People who just ask for more money don't have as much success as those who come in with "I need to be making $XXX,XXX by July for my family to remain happy here, what do I need to do to get there?"

And cutting costs... you don't HAVE to golf every week, you just want to. And when you do, do you HAVE to go to the $40/round course? Maybe skip a week per month, or start going to cheaper one twice a month instead. Right now you're delaying your long term family goals for your own short term social fun. It's up to you to decide which has priority if you can't make any more money.
 
Dec 10, 2005
29,622
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If you're in a city, there are several things you can do:

If there is good public transit, get rid of your car(s) and use car-sharing/renting on the rare occasion you'll need one. Look for smaller places to live - you could potentially shed stuff you don't need, get better at organizing your stuff (shelving, under-furniture storage, etc...). Shop around for insurance - I found on renter's insurance alone that there could be > $150/year swing in cost between different companies. Bring your lunch to work instead of always spending several dollars per day on mediocre lunch places, etc... Lots of little things can add up to big savings.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
52,321
7,602
136
I love how simply ATOT makes life seem. Why didn't I think of this?!?!

This is more of a gauge to see if folks around my age truly are able to save money or not. If they are, yes of course make more money, but it's not THAT simple. Cut costs, yes, but what specifically? Move, sure.. but then income may go down, plus my g/f is only licensed to practice in this state, and she's locked in for another year. Furthermore, her mom will give us free kid care once that time comes. If we move any further away, I highly doubt she's going to leave the husband behind just to come take care of our chillunz.

Cost of living is rough. My buddy (my age) stayed in FL. Owns 2 houses now. Rents one out. Making bank & living in an awesome crib. Would be a LOT harder to do that in CT. I'm almost in my mid-30's & am only just now looking at buying a house :p
 

mztykal

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
6,713
48
91
I'm in Hawaii which has a really high cost of living. I do have a house and a decently high mortgage. We never really scrimp by and usually buy what we want. I don't have any car payments though and I hardly buy big ticket items as I don't feel their necessary...

I'm going to start keeping track of my finances as just skimming the credit card bill before paying it off is a bad habit lol.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,746
6,620
126
I wish there were more developer jobs in Hawaii. When I talked to a company in Hawaii they were paying less than I make now by a lot although the cost of living is way more there than in the DMV area. There reasoning was the "sunshine tax" or some bullshit. Fuck that, I won't live anywhere that I'd be housepoor.
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,844
1,049
126
I'm going to start keeping track of my finances as just skimming the credit card bill before paying it off is a bad habit lol.

I have a mint.com account but I feel like just skimming the credit card bill is enough. I mark out utilities, gas stations, eating out (even McD's), and groceries (eating in). Mortgage is not on the CC obviously. Everything else is pretty much extra that we can cut if needed. For some odd reason, this Amazon.com entry seems to be repeated a lot. :(
 

monkeydelmagico

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2011
3,961
145
106
This is more of a gauge to see if folks around my age truly are able to save money or not.

If you have any left over after expenses you are doing better than a lot of people "around" your age, or any other age. Yes, everyone is, in essence, making it seem simple. That's because the choice is yours.

You are living the New American Dream (NAD). Clothes on your back, gas for a car that barely runs to take you to your dead end job that will be offshored the second they can work out the logistics of moving. Don't forget the fun stuff that comes at you out of nowhere like getting sick, needing $$$$ worth of medicine, and having to take a couple days off work even if you are out of sick days.

People who don't have to worry about things like that are living the NAD.

The bar is considerably lower now than it used to be.