Power supply for this stuff?

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
HardWarrior, perhaps. Perhaps it's a poor choice of words. I really wonder who needs 750w + psu's, and if the people reading those reviews on jonnyguru's and such are among those people needing those psu's. So perhaps I should say I don't even know why they bother making those psu's. Unless theres a huge market of people/pc's/servers who need 750w + psu's, that I'm unaware of.

Don't take this the wrong way Marc, but if you have the time to wonder about things like this, then you have a way too much spare time. I think I'm a fair sight older than lots of people here, and I can say in all honesty that I've never wasted a thought pondering what other people "need" in terms of consumer products. I'm way to occupied trying to meet the real and perceived needs of me and mine.

Why are high-wattage units produced? That's an easy one, because there's a market for them! There doesn't have to be a huge market, right? In fact, when I was buying my 850 ($249), units of its type were the clear minority on the shelves, though there was a nice selection up to 1200 watters. I'm starting to suspect that at least some of you guys are funning me here. People have, and probably always will, acquire things that an outside observer might consider superfluous.

 

[MarcVenice]

Heh to much time, on sundays, definately If someone asks what PSU to get though, and people tell him to get something he doesn't need, it's not a bad idea to explain why he doesn't need one.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Heh to much time, on sundays, definately If someone asks what PSU to get though, and people tell him to get something he doesn't need, it's not a bad idea to explain why he doesn't need one.

Bad Idea? Perhaps, it depends. A waste of time that has the potential to get out of hand? Maybe, we'll see. You seem like a nice guy Marc, and that helps a bit.

 

[dclive]

I'm still curious about a Kill-A-Watt test - if you hook one up to measure actual usage, what is the number given?

 

[John]

Originally posted by: dclive
I'm still curious about a Kill-A-Watt test - if you hook one up to measure actual usage, what is the number given?

As an example if your kill-a-watt is showing 350W then you need to figure out the efficiency of your psu. Let's say the psu is 80% efficient so that would be 350*.8=280W load on the psu. If your psu is only 70% efficient then a 280W load on the psu would be 400W at the wall.

 

[dclive]

Right. I was asking HardWarrior for his numbers, as I was curious what kind of power his setup required.

 

[John]

Doh, sorry about that.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: dclive
Right. I was asking HardWarrior for his numbers, as I was curious what kind of power his setup required.

I really have no hard numbers for you dc, as I mentioned earlier. When it comes to PSU's I just don't think low-balling makes any sense in terms of efficiency, expense or in making sure that my hardware has everything it needs, and more, to function well. Having said this, I am in no way suggesting that people who decide to do otherwise are wrong. To each his own. It would be nice, however, and condusive to some peace in places like this, if the other side thought the same way.

 

[dclive]

How do you know that 300W is low-balling, if you've never run numbers, and if Anandtech's reports (I think it was them...) say 165W (max) and 130W (normal) for a Core2Duo system, 965 chipset, 7900, 1 HDD (and adjust numbers upwards as you add hardware, of course)?

In other words, how do we (all of us) even form a baseline for what is low-end or a "just barely enough" power supply, without objective numbers?

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: dclive
How do you know that 300W is low-balling, if you've never run numbers, and if Anandtech's reports (I think it was them...) say 165W (max) and 130W (normal) for a Core2Duo system, 965 chipset, 7900, 1 HDD (and adjust numbers upwards as you add hardware, of course)?

In other words, how do we (all of us) even form a baseline for what is low-end or a "just barely enough" power supply, without objective numbers?

Let's try this another way: Do you spend time trying to calculate the amount of processor power you need before buying a new CPU? I really doubt it, and I'd be willing to bet good money that ANYONE who'd jaw-harp someone for buying a QX6700 would be in the extreme minority. It is, apparently, acceptable to "buy up" as far as your wallet will allow in that arena. Why isn't the same true for PSU's?

I await your thoughts on this.

As I explained earlier, I'm not interested in a "baseline." I buy more than I need based on my subjective assesment, with a decent margin to spare. It really is okay if you, or anyone else for that matter, thinks otherwise. The lack of comity, and sometimes out-right warfare begins when people start making statements like: "So perhaps I should say I don't even know why they bother making those psu's."

 

[dclive]

So basically we're admitting we have no idea what is required, and we're buying huge PSUs because vendors put bigger numbers on them? C'mon - surely we can do better than this.

The CPU comparison isn't valid because I can look at CPU charts and see what the performance differences are. With PSUs, there is no performance difference for what we're talking about - either it works or it won't, and a 300W PSU that works and has 50 watts to spare works no better than an 800 watt PSU that was 550 watts to spare (aka wasted)....so that's a bad comparison.

I'm just pointing out that given Anandtech's research (that with a single drive and normal 965/Core2Duo/nVidia 7900 setup people need about 160W max), that would suggest, to me, that most other people who heavily load their system could use a max of 300 - 400W.

 

[HardWarrior]

"We?" Why do so you seem so intent on finding fault here? I simply DON'T CARE to scratch for numbers that won't play a role in my choice for a PSU anyway. You don't get to choose my priorities, I do. This should be easy to understand.

If someone is willing to pop for a 1600 watter, why does it matter to you?

 

[dclive]

For a one-off I don't care what anyone does.

In the aggregate, though, I'd rather help people here spend more money on things that matter in their system, and less money on things that don't. Obviously, a larger PSU than what one needs is wasted.

Many people here believe a 700W PS or somesuch is required for SLI'd boxes, and 500-600W are required for a Core2Duo/modern graphics card setup. Now many will know better....we've shown otherwise.... Anandtech has, and the overall E700 demonstration (300W PSU for nVidia 8800GTS, Quad6600, 4x1GB, 4 HDDs, 1xDVD, Hauppauge Dual TV tuner card, etc.) has as well.

 

[HardWarrior]

Sure you care, so much so that you're fit to burst over this. How DARE anyone not play your game, right?

 

[dclive]

If you were uncomfortable talking about it, why did you reply to this post?

 

[John]

Please keep the bickering to a minimum and stay on topic.

 

[HardWarrior]

Yeah dc, stop bickering and learn to love diversity in choice!

 

[MarcVenice]

Hardwarrior I think that you are taking this to personal, for all he, and perhaps I care, you buy 2 1600 watters and use them in 1 single system that doesn't even pull 50W. What I ment, and what he is discussing, is that it is just crazy to have these huge PSU's when a normal to high-end rigs can't even come near the amount of power such a PSU can deliver.

Then comes the simple fact that this is forum is for people who have questions about PSU's. Questions need answers, and preferably the right answers. The right answer in our opinion would be, go with a 400-500W PSU, since those PSU's will be able to handle 90% of the rigs just fine.

You are arguing against that, and I don't see why ?

 

[HardWarrior]

Not once have I even approached taking anything said here "personal." Either state specific, objective examples of such, or stay away from the idea that you can read emotions from cold text.

2x1600 watters for a 50w system? Come one Marc, surely you can offer a better example than this to support the way you conjure PSU's!

Absolutely, this place can be used as a learning tool, but to mix that with the idea that you can will choices out of existence is just plane anti-social. Why do sites review large wattage units? Because people want to read those reviews. Why do companies produce said units? Because people are buying them. This should have been obvious to you. The fact that is wasn't is an interesing indication that just answering questions, helping people, isn't the only thing that motivates you to be here.

400-500watts, huh?

"500watt plus on a quality unit. If you want the PSU itself to remain relatively cool and ultra stable, go to the "+" side. As someone else mentioned, consider future expansion as well."

Wow, it seems like I was in the ball-park, and I didn't need a group-hug to validate what I said. Also, and read this carefully, all of us are different in terms of the way we view computers. Some have to REALLY look closely at their purchases, either due to financial concerns, or simply because counting beans is fun. Others are enthusiasts, who enjoy the technology and the constant hunt for something newer and cooler. Consider me part of the latter mindset. Any advice I offer is going to be from that perspective, and that's just the way it is.

 

[dclive]

There's another group - those that don't understand what they're buying, and don't understand how to quantify their needs. They buy the biggest because someone online told them to do so. I think cutting down on that number is A Good Thing.

One way to quantify needs is to use devices like Kill-A-Watt (from Amazon.com, $24) or online reviews in trusted sites (like Anand's) to determine actual requirements prior to purchase. That's what the wise folks are doing. As they read, they are learning that these monster power supplies are only making NewEgg and others in the upgrade market wealthy, and giving no benefit to themselves.

Anandtech has done reviews of modern systems WITH 8800GTX BOARDS IN THEM (that and the 8800 Ultra are the two heaviest-power-consuming boards out there right now) - and they *still* found that power requirements were significantly under 300W, (example: Core2Duo 6600 was 203 watts - WITH the 8800GTX) even when the machine was fully loaded. Here's another URL: http://anandtech.com/cpuchipse...howdoc.aspx?i=2903&p=7

Just posting the facts...make of them what you will...

 

[MarcVenice]

I think you're taking it personal coz you are arguing against perfectly sound advice, advice you have given yourself. I'm losing track of everything that has been said though, and dclive basicaly said what I would like to say, so no need to repeat him.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
I think you're taking it personal coz you are arguing against perfectly sound advice, advice you have given yourself. I'm losing track of everything that has been said though, and dclive basicaly said what I would like to say, so no need to repeat him.

You're lying to cover yourself, or you haven't been as into the minutiae of this thread as you'd like everyone to think. Either way, you've lost any "argument" there was.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: dclive
There's another group - those that don't understand what they're buying, and don't understand how to quantify their needs. They buy the biggest because someone online told them to do so. I think cutting down on that number is A Good Thing.

Has anyone in this thread suggested the "biggest", or are you just making stuff up for effect?

 

[dclive]

I've been posting nothing but facts - backed up by Anand's own articles!

You tell us (see your first few posts) you use them too, but when I asked for them, you took it very personally and started insulting people - you've made snide and nasty remarks to MarcV and now to me.

What's the problem? We're just making suggestions to people based on actual usage and actual tests. Do you disagree with doing that?

 

[rise]

what are the specs on that psu again?