Power in the Apartment

[m1ldslide1]

So I just moved into a new apartment in a very OLD building and when I went to plug in my computer I noticed that the outlets in the room were all 2-pronged. The closest 3-pronged outlets are clear in the kitchen, which would make for a LAME cable run if I were to get an extension cord. So I went out and bought a 2-3 pronged socket adaptor and everything has been running fine for the last two weeks.

I am worried about frying my rig though because my power strip is ancient and combined with the poorly conceived power solution I think I'm in line for one of those "life lessons".

So I was wondering if there is a good power strip/surge protector that I can buy? It seems that the terms power strip and surge protector are used interchangeably all the time and I want to make sure that I'm getting the best solution for my PC. I'm not sure that I could walk over to the hardware store and feel like I'm making an educated purchase...

Anybody have any ideas? Or any other input as to what I should do here?

 

[NuroMancer]

While by no means an expert,
I think you should bite the bullet, get an electrician in and get proper grounded plugs.
I not sure how a power bar disipates a surge if It has no ground...

There are lots of people here who know more,
but thats just my 2 cents

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Firstly, I won't bother asking why you didn't turn and walk the **** out when you saw that. Secondly, isn't that against some sort of electrical/fire code, depending on the building's age?

- M4H

 

[Matthias99]

That was weird. Sorry, DP.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Firstly, I won't bother asking why you didn't turn and walk the **** out when you saw that.

He may not have thought to double-check the electrical outlets in every room. And a LOT of apartments have ****** wiring; depending on what's available in the area, this could easily have been the lesser of two evils.

Secondly, isn't that against some sort of electrical/fire code, depending on the building's age?

- M4H

I would guess the building has probably been grandfathered in if it is a "very OLD building".

(nitpick: shouldn't the emphasis be on "very" rather than "old"?)

I agree that you should not run your system without it being properly grounded. A power surge could do bad, bad things.

 

[Luckyboy1]

Well, your first problem should arise from asking yourself the question...

How many times did they paint this place since they installed the wall outlets?

Remember, latex paint ain't such a good conductor and spraying a mist and having even any of it get into the connection is a bad deal all around.

Then you have to ask yourself...

Ok, a wall outlet has a spring tension as well to hold onto the plug in question. while this may be fine for a lamp, is it good enough for my PC?


So, I think we can safely say the wall outlet should be replaced, but with what?

You walk into your local Homely Depot store and reach the section where they sell wall outlets. You see a wall outlet sold for like $1.75 U.S. nd another one sold for $8.00 or more. You think...

Ok, what's the difference?

You read the UL ratings and find they are exactly the same and take home the wrong part!

Get the commercial grade outlet. It grabs onto the prongs of your power chord hard and doesn't suffer nearly as much from transient load loss as a result.

I dunnow Lucky, it's electricity and I might fry myself!

Ok, you can do two things...

1) Plug a lamp into that outlet and start flipping off breakers until the light goes out. That's fairly safe, but if someting's wired wrong, you could still be in trouble.

2) This is the safest, most foolproof measure. It is safer than a mutlimeter because there are no User type errors. That hardware store you were in will sell you on the cheap a device that plugs into the wall and checks the circuit. If you see no led's light up, you are ready to go to work with the installation. This also is good for checking your work when done. It will tell you if you've got the wires hooked up wrong and which one is the offending wire.

Now, here's the part I can't answer for you, the original question. See, some electrical boxes are grounded and some are not even if they are supposed to be. So, on some, you can run the ground lead to the box and be done. On others, you end up hunting for a copper or steel water line or even running the wire outside to a grounding rod.

It is always advised to have it grounded, but many run without it. Sorry I can't give an easier answer, but I felt a good question deserves ans complete an answer as I can give.

 

[NuroMancer]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Firstly, I won't bother asking why you didn't turn and walk the **** out when you saw that.

He may not have thought to double-check the electrical outlets in every room. And a LOT of apartments have ****** wiring; depending on what's available in the area, this could easily have been the lesser of two evils.

Secondly, isn't that against some sort of electrical/fire code, depending on the building's age?

- M4H

I would guess the building has probably been grandfathered in if it is a "very OLD building".

(nitpick: shouldn't the emphasis be on "very" rather than "old"?)

I agree that you should not run your system without it being properly grounded. A power surge could do bad, bad things.

And properly grounded would mean having an electrician come in would it not?

 

[Luckyboy1]

And properly grounded would mean having an electrician come in would it not?

Nope, it's a physical thing, not an Guild thing! It simply needs to be done correctly and stores like Ace Hardware and Homely Depot and whatnot have been advising people for ages on how to do this themselves. If it was so dangerous, then don't you think their lawyers would have put a stop to that sort of thing long ago?

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: Luckyboy1
I dunnow Lucky, it's electricity and I might fry myself!

You could also get sued if you try to do your own electrical work in an apartment building (and God help you if you accidentally hurt yourself or start a fire or something). Depending on where you live, it could even be illegal unless you're a licensed electrician.

Talk to the landlord first and check your local laws.

I'd also be slightly skeptical taking electical advice from someone who uses "chord" instead of "cord" when talking about wiring.

 

[Luckyboy1]

What complete hysterics!

You can hire a licensed electrician, and if he or she sees that doing a proper ground job is a hassle, they may and often do think...

I'll just wire it up to look like it's grounded and not mention a thing because I'm getting paid by the job here and not by the hour!

Then when something goes toasty, they just deny everything and say someone else played with the outlet after they were done.

 

[m1ldslide1]

So in other words it's not a good idea for me to just leave it the way it is?

I've heard that not all outlets have grounding capability at all, so there could be the two-pronged outlet there for a reason. And yes, the building is VERY old (thank you matthias - I'm sure your nit picking is very endearing IRL) and they even will fine me $50 for putting a bulb that's over 60 watts into any of the permanent fixtures. So I'm not sure how all of this will go over.

But it's insane for them to expect people to not have computers and power strips that need to be plugged in so I'll just have to give a call and see what the deal is. Maybe they'll bring an electrician out for me, or maybe I'll be stuck with learning to replace the outlet myself. Or maybe I get to duct-tape a giant extension cord across 25 feet of hardwoods...

 

[Luckyboy1]

I'd also be slightly skeptical taking electical advice from someone who uses "chord" instead of "cord" when talking about wiring.

So, do all English and Library Science majors make for good electricians?

 

[NuroMancer]

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1
So in other words it's not a good idea for me to just leave it the way it is?

I've heard that not all outlets have grounding capability at all, so there could be the two-pronged outlet there for a reason. And yes, the building is VERY old (thank you matthias - I'm sure your nit picking is very endearing IRL) and they even will fine me $50 for putting a bulb that's over 60 watts into any of the permanent fixtures. So I'm not sure how all of this will go over.

But it's insane for them to expect people to not have computers and power strips that need to be plugged in so I'll just have to give a call and see what the deal is. Maybe they'll bring an electrician out for me, or maybe I'll be stuck with learning to replace the outlet myself. Or maybe I get to duct-tape a giant extension cord across 25 feet of hardwoods...

I would choose option a.
Rendering a 5 hour project and then trip over the power cord at 4:56:59. NOOOO!

 

[Luckyboy1]

Maybe for a fee, you can buy the commercial grade outlet and have the apartment crew put it in.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: Luckyboy1
What complete hysterics!

You can hire a licensed electrician, and if he or she sees that doing a proper ground job is a hassle, they may and often do think...

I'll just wire it up to look like it's grounded and not mention a thing because I'm getting paid by the job here and not by the hour!

Then when something goes toasty, they just deny everything and say someone else played with the outlet after they were done.

Don't like electricians much?

I stand by:

You could also get sued if you try to do your own electrical work in an apartment building (and God help you if you accidentally hurt yourself or start a fire or something). Depending on where you live, it could even be illegal unless you're a licensed electrician.

Talk to the landlord first and check your local laws.

Maybe for a fee, you can buy the commercial grade outlet and have the apartment crew put it in.

Sounds like a more sensible plan to me.

 

[Luckyboy1]

No, I find most electricians to be a waste of skin as currently proposed in use. A wall outlet is easily handled by even the most nOOb person with some help from the guy or gal at the hardware store, so getting hysterical in response is useless at best.

Again, if it was so frought... did I spell that right?... only electricians know for sure! if it was such a liability, then the very smart lawyers and other top brass at these companies would ask to see your electrician's license before selling you the part and I'm sure you'd love for it to be that way so we can all go pay the electrician to keep our collective diapers clean!

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: Luckyboy1A wall outlet is easily handled by even the most nOOb person with some help from the guy or gal at the hardware store, so getting hysterical in response is useless at best.

I didn't get 'hysterical'; I pointed out that what you told the OP to do may not be legal where they live unless they have an electrician's license, and almost certainly requires the permission of their landlord if they are renting.

Again, if it was so frought... did I spell that right?

No.

if it was such a liability, then the very smart lawyers and other top brass at these companies would ask to see your electrician's license before selling you the part and I'm sure you'd love for it to be that way so we can all go pay the electrician to keep our collective diapers clean!

I just don't want the OP to get sued or fined or piss off their landlord. Chill out.

 

[m1ldslide1]

I definately don't want to piss of the landlord since they seem so concerned about the electrical in this building. I'll get ahold of them first and see what they say, and then if worst comes to worst and I can't replace the socket at all then I'll look at running a ground wire from my 3-pronged adaptor.

I've been thinking about where to run my grounding wire...the closest plumbing is as far away as the right sockets are, and the only appliance I have close by is my forced-air gas heat thing. It has several pipes disappearing into the wall, and besides the obvious task of finding one that actually will work as a ground, my question is:

Is it bad to ground my electrical to my natural gas pipes??? :laugh: I know what my mother might say but I was wondering what the science is here...

 

[Varun]

Pipes aren't ground. You have to ground the wire to a good ground source, or it's not worth having (and potentially more dangerous)

Even the 3 prong receptacles in your kitchen may not even be grounded, someone might have just changed the outlets when they got tired of not being able to plug in any kitchen devices. (who really needs grounded appliances in a wet area anyways?)

Definately talk to the landlord about it. Old wiring is a hazard and with some prompting maybe he will look into it.

 

[OSX]

Water pipes make an excellent ground. They're conductive, and always end up going into the ground. I have some exposed water pipes in the basement that I use to discharge static before doing computer work.

 

[alimoalem]

yea if the landlord looks into it that would be good...that way the OP doesn't have to pay

 

[Luckyboy1]

I'd stay away from mixing gas pipes with electricity.

The problem with using the apartment people to do the work is...

1) They don't hire licenced electricians to do their electrical work. Don't believe me? Just ask to see the licence of the next guy installing a new ceiling fan!

2) They will look at you as one of those pains they'd rather not deal with. Even if they do the work, did they do it right or could they care less if your PC fries or goes to another planet for all they care?

3) The chickidoo who rented the apartment... is she going to do a wall outlet audit when you move out?

So, it's not that I don't respect electricians. It is because I respect their time and skills that I wouldn't waste it on a weiner job like this, but hey, if you can find someone who actually takes pride in their work and you don't henpeck them on cost, it's an option, although unneeded in my book. If not and the fact that you'll have to be homely to let them in and all, I'd just do it myself, but then again, I was building breadboards that Waz and Cousin Billy looked at in fascination when I was 12 years old and knew how to weld and also repair basic electrical problems at 8 years of age, so maybe my personal experience is a bit out of line from the average?

Still, millions do it yourself every year without it leading to like... dancing or something bad like that!

 

[CrispyFried]

its probably illegal to change the outlet without being licensed (not 100% sure though) since you dont own it and others live in the building too.

just get an outlet checker (a few bucks) and run a heavy extention cord to a properly grounded outlet. dont run the cord under carpets etc.

some 3 to 2 prong adapters have a pig tail or lug that you connect to the screw that holds the cover plate, try hooking that up and check it, you may find the ground ok.

the 60 watt rule is a bit scary, means the wireing is probably old. but many modern light fixtures have the 60 watt rules also, so thats not always true.

 

[Maxspeed996]

I've worked in the residential and commercial electrical field a while ago , and as a renter , I've done some changes (minor) to the electrical outlets , switches in apartments before I bought my home. AND , I've never heard of it to be illegal for someone to relace a NON-grounded outlet to a Grounded one.
It is very easy to do...just do it smart. Tools you will need are:
Phillips screwdriver
Flat Head screwdriver
Needle nose pliers
New outlet
and screw (to hold the grounding wire)

a vaccuum with the crevice attachment works well for removing the dust , insulation and other junk that builds up in the box from years of sitting.
Work smart , turn off the breaker , and always treat the wires as if the power is turned on to them. Never touch two wires together , or complete a circuit with your tools. The Green screw on the bottom of newer outlets is the ground. Black is Hot , white is Neutral. use a nice piece of copper wire to ground the outlet to a screw on the inside of the box will do the trick.

A qualified electrician is always the best route , and check with your landlord to see what they think about it ,they may be willing to foot the bill to have someone come over to do a little updating for you.

 

[Varun]

Originally posted by: Maxspeed996
The Green screw on the bottom of newer outlets is the ground. Black is Hot , white is Neutral. use a nice piece of copper wire to ground the outlet to a screw on the inside of the box will do the trick.

Ok, but how do you know if the box is grounded?