Poverty overstated in US?

bobdelt

Senior member
May 26, 2006
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http://www.economist.com/agenda/displaystory.cfm?story_id=7853537

"The poverty rate is over a percentage point lower than it was when Mr Clinton signed the infamous bill. Child poverty has fallen even more dramatically."

"Among those who worked for some or all of 2005 only 6% were officially poor; for those who did not work at all, the poverty rate was over 20%."

"points out that official poverty calculations exclude taxes paid and government benefits received as well as non-cash income such as fringe benefits or the rent saved through homeownership. This leads to a growing mismatch between the official poverty rate and spending by those at the bottom, which has risen though the poverty rate has held steady."

"Obesity is now the chief nutritional woe facing America?s poor."


So America's poor, dont work, spend more money than they used to, and eat way too much. That doesnt sound too poor to me. The average povered person has as much living space as the average american in the 1980's.

America is still the best country to make a livable wage.

Individuals control their own destiny, and I feel that most poor are either just lazy, or they blame everything on someone. Look at Dick Cheney, he most certainly did not come from a wealthy family. I also have a friend who was homeless now going to a top 10 law school. If you have the will, and dont expect handouts, and work hard, it will pay off for you. There's no excuse for nobody to go to college these days, loans are very easy to get.

That is, unless you drop out of school and have kids at 17. But then again, its their own fault their poor and it shouldnt be society's burden to support their mistakes.
 

HombrePequeno

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2001
4,657
0
0
Originally posted by: bobdelt
There's no excuse for nobody to go to college these days, loans are very easy to get.

That is, unless you drop out of school and have kids at 17. But then again, its their own fault their poor and it shouldnt be society's burden to support their mistakes.

Even dropping out of school and having kids at 17 is no excuse. My mom had her first child at 16 (second and third at 18 and 19) and still managed to get her AA. There are tons of opportunities to get ahead in this country.
 

CHOPPER GOD

Senior member
Apr 14, 2005
214
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Don't have kids...stop ordering pizza's and get rid of that 100$ a month cell phone bill and cable TV....and start being a good steward of your money....

Please don't tell me that it's my responsibility to spend less than I earn..cuz that's..that's just crazy responsible talk....hmm..whose fault is it then....I know immagrant workers..no wait...Chineese engineers...ok republicans fault....no wait...Screw this man...I AM A M E R I C A N.....I've been raised on entitlement thinking and I DESERVE 11$ an hour to sweep floors. I DESERVE to get a pay raise 'just because I've been a good boy and worked a whole 6 months at your company and only called in sick twice..........I'll have to really figure this one out as I pick which shirt to put on this morning while the kid in africa doesn't even have a shirt.

P.S. next time I have 4 days notice of a hurricane comming to town... I will get my a$$ on a freakin skateboard..anything..and get inland...I'll show you mother nature, I'll rebuild in the same PLACE that you destroyed last time...the fact that the bottom part of my state is shaped like a hurricane's arch is surely coincidence...I'm American..and that was MY HOME and I DESERVE to live there mother nature..you hear me you...why I outta rebuild in the same place and teach you mother nature...whats below sea level mean anyway?

Born out of wedlock and ignoring Gods DESIGN for family...WHAT! surely THATS not the problem...lets keep looking elsewhere to put the blame...Hop in kids..get in the car that (with gas, insurance and payment) is 1/3 rd of my income and lets spend 14$ at McDonalds again...hurry up Johnny..get in.....bring your nintendo with you...JOHNNY ! Give your sister her cell phone back..RIGHT NOW ! ! ! ! Thats it...If you keep that up, mommys not gonna give you rides to school everyday and your gonna have to ride your Cannondale mountain bike to school....and all the kids will make fun of you!
 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
7,842
2
81
Take your God spouting intolerance elsewhere CHOPPER GOD. What was that about casting the first stone? Oh ya, Christians are never-ending hypocrites and frauds.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0

The government for standard for being poor doesn't take into account modern consumption patterns. If ir recall, they are still using cumsumption patterns from the 50's as the standard. Also, i saw fgures from recent years that show that medium real income has been falling.

Originally posted by: bobdelt


America is still the best country to make a livable wage.

completely and utterly untrue.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: bobdelt

America is still the best country to make a livable wage.

Link, proof?

All data shows the U.S. dropping fast compared to the rest of the world.

Wages are heading down towards $2.13hr. That's your progress?

Where the hell did you pull that number from?
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,112
930
126
Only in America, can you drive a new Cadillac to the welfare office. I don't believe people here in America really understand what poverty is, compared to living elsewhere.
 

HombrePequeno

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2001
4,657
0
0
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: bobdelt

America is still the best country to make a livable wage.

Link, proof?

All data shows the U.S. dropping fast compared to the rest of the world.

Wages are heading down towards $2.13hr. That's your progress?

Where the hell did you pull that number from?

I think you know what body part he pulled that number out of. ;)
 

jlbenedict

Banned
Jul 10, 2005
3,724
0
0
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: bobdelt

America is still the best country to make a livable wage.

Link, proof?

All data shows the U.S. dropping fast compared to the rest of the world.

Wages are heading down towards $2.13hr. That's your progress?

Where the hell did you pull that number from?


Inflation, cost of living, etc... outpacing working wages
 

XMan

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
12,513
49
91
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: bobdelt

America is still the best country to make a livable wage.

Link, proof?

All data shows the U.S. dropping fast compared to the rest of the world.

Wages are heading down towards $2.13hr. That's your progress?

What would you raise the minimum wage to?
 

shrumpage

Golden Member
Mar 1, 2004
1,304
0
0
Originally posted by: CHOPPER GOD
Don't have kids...stop ordering pizza's and get rid of that 100$ a month cell phone bill and cable TV....and start being a good steward of your money....

Please don't tell me that it's my responsibility to spend less than I earn..cuz that's..that's just crazy responsible talk....hmm..whose fault is it then....I know immagrant workers..no wait...Chineese engineers...ok republicans fault....no wait...Screw this man...I AM A M E R I C A N.....I've been raised on entitlement thinking and I DESERVE 11$ an hour to sweep floors. I DESERVE to get a pay raise 'just because I've been a good boy and worked a whole 6 months at your company and only called in sick twice..........I'll have to really figure this one out as I pick which shirt to put on this morning while the kid in africa doesn't even have a shirt.

P.S. next time I have 4 days notice of a hurricane comming to town... I will get my a$$ on a freakin skateboard..anything..and get inland...I'll show you mother nature, I'll rebuild in the same PLACE that you destroyed last time...the fact that the bottom part of my state is shaped like a hurricane's arch is surely coincidence...I'm American..and that was MY HOME and I DESERVE to live there mother nature..you hear me you...why I outta rebuild in the same place and teach you mother nature...whats below sea level mean anyway?

Born out of wedlock and ignoring Gods DESIGN for family...WHAT! surely THATS not the problem...lets keep looking elsewhere to put the blame...Hop in kids..get in the car that (with gas, insurance and payment) is 1/3 rd of my income and lets spend 14$ at McDonalds again...hurry up Johnny..get in.....bring your nintendo with you...JOHNNY ! Give your sister her cell phone back..RIGHT NOW ! ! ! ! Thats it...If you keep that up, mommys not gonna give you rides to school everyday and your gonna have to ride your Cannondale mountain bike to school....and all the kids will make fun of you!

:thumbsup:

Dump the cell phone.

dump cable.

dump any extra mothly expense you don't need.

buy used.

don't eat out.

don't buy designer coffee.

don't go out to bars.

don't have kids.

Destroy your credit cards (except for maybe one)

improve yourself - education/job wise.

and move if you have to.

You can get ahead.

Six years ago i was a struggling single parent living month to month - working a dead end job. Now i'm have a great job, own a home, remarried and have more kids - not rich by any means - but very content where i'm at.

It didn't happen over night i spent many hours studying, gaining certs, got myself in to school at least part time, finally wrapped up an AA degree. It took a bit of sacerifce, some luck and support of my folks - but it can be done.

Even thogh i'm doing much better, i refuse to buy a new car, shop at thrift stores and garage sales, and limit when we eat out.

What i see happen to people ( and at one point myself) is they get an "okay" job. Something pays the rent, maybe afford a just enough perks that they don't have an incentive to move on - and they just get 'stuck.'

 

bobdelt

Senior member
May 26, 2006
918
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: bobdelt

America is still the best country to make a livable wage.

Link, proof?

All data shows the U.S. dropping fast compared to the rest of the world.

Wages are heading down towards $2.13hr. That's your progress?

The rest of the world may be catching up... but that doesnt mean the US is falling behind. You're logic has flaws.
 

bobdelt

Senior member
May 26, 2006
918
0
0
Originally posted by: miketheidiot

The government for standard for being poor doesn't take into account modern consumption patterns. If ir recall, they are still using cumsumption patterns from the 50's as the standard. Also, i saw fgures from recent years that show that medium real income has been falling.

Originally posted by: bobdelt


America is still the best country to make a livable wage.

completely and utterly untrue.

Really? which country has a lower poverty rate? Which country has a higher standard of living? Which country has a higher median income than the us?

Have you even been out of the country? Even the UK doesnt have nearly as good of a quality of life as the US. I'm trying to get a job abroad, and my UK buddy keeps telling me it would be the biggest mistake of my life, because my quality of life would plummet.

 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
Originally posted by: bobdelt
Originally posted by: miketheidiot

The government for standard for being poor doesn't take into account modern consumption patterns. If ir recall, they are still using cumsumption patterns from the 50's as the standard. Also, i saw fgures from recent years that show that medium real income has been falling.

Originally posted by: bobdelt


America is still the best country to make a livable wage.

completely and utterly untrue.

Really? which country has a lower poverty rate? Which country has a higher standard of living? Which country has a higher median income than the us?

Have you even been out of the country? Even the UK doesnt have nearly as good of a quality of life as the US. I'm trying to get a job abroad, and my UK buddy keeps telling me it would be the biggest mistake of my life, because my quality of life would plummet.

Holland.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Human_Development_Index

Norway (=)
Iceland (? 5)
Australia (=)
Luxembourg (? 11)
Canada (? 1)
Sweden (? 4)
Switzerland (? 4)
Ireland (? 2)
Belgium (? 3)
United States (? 2)
Japan (? 2)
Netherlands (? 7)
Finland (=)
Denmark (? 3)
United Kingdom (? 3)
France (=)
Austria (? 3)
Germany (? 3)
New Zealand (? 1)
Italy (? 1)
Spain (? 1)
Hong Kong (SAR of People's Republic of China (PRC)) (? 1)
Israel (? 1)
Greece (=)
Republic of China (Taiwan) (=)
Singapore (?3)
Slovenia (? 1)
Portugal (? 1)
South Korea (=)
Cyprus (? 1)
Barbados (? 1)

#1 country by year.

2005 ? Norway
2004 ? Norway
2003 ? Norway
2002 ? Norway
2001 ? Norway
2000 ? Canada
1999 ? Canada
1998 ? Canada
1997 ? Canada
1996 ? Canada
1995 ? Canada
1994 ? Canada
1993 ? Japan
1992 ? Canada
1991 ? Japan
1990 ? Canada
1985 ? Canada
1980 ? Switzerland

 

Cruise51

Senior member
Mar 2, 2005
635
0
0
Originally posted by: bobdelt
Originally posted by: miketheidiot

The government for standard for being poor doesn't take into account modern consumption patterns. If ir recall, they are still using cumsumption patterns from the 50's as the standard. Also, i saw fgures from recent years that show that medium real income has been falling.

Originally posted by: bobdelt


America is still the best country to make a livable wage.

completely and utterly untrue.

Really? which country has a lower poverty rate? Which country has a higher standard of living? Which country has a higher median income than the us?

Have you even been out of the country? Even the UK doesnt have nearly as good of a quality of life as the US. I'm trying to get a job abroad, and my UK buddy keeps telling me it would be the biggest mistake of my life, because my quality of life would plummet.

ARE YOU KIDDING!?
Something tells me you know very little about Canada, Australia, and Northern Europe.
 

CHOPPER GOD

Senior member
Apr 14, 2005
214
0
0
Originally posted by: Todd33
Take your God spouting intolerance elsewhere CHOPPER GOD. What was that about casting the first stone? Oh ya, Christians are never-ending hypocrites and frauds.

Hi todd33..how are ya doin today
....what am I 'intolerant' of again?
I am not against the 'poor'..I am only intolerant of the poor who have made and continue to make bad decesions that keep them or make them poor.

PEOPLE can be hypocrites and frauds, Christians included...I however am not a fraud or hypocrite concerning my relationship with Christ although I DO agree with you (Yes really I do) there are many phonies who give Christ a bad name....but thats off topic..

 

bobdelt

Senior member
May 26, 2006
918
0
0
Well I have a homeless friend in Australia, 3 friends who left Canada to work in the US, all of whom claim Canada is a $h*t hole, dont know anybody from Northearn Europe, but I doubt living standards are much better. Keep in mind most countries in Europe have unemployment rates that dwarf the US.

But please, show me, lead me out of my ignorance, teach about Canada, Australia, and Europe about how much greater it is than US, about how there is less poverty and people earn much more money.
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
Originally posted by: bobdelt
Well I have a homeless friend in Australia, 3 friends who left Canada to work in the US, all of whom claim Canada is a $h*t hole, dont know anybody from Northearn Europe, but I doubt living standards are much better. Keep in mind most countries in Europe have unemployment rates that dwarf the US.

But please, show me, lead me out of my ignorance, teach about Canada, Australia, and Europe about how much greater it is than US, about how there is less poverty and people earn much more money.

I am sure people will go run out and find that proof for you.. as soon as YOU offer proof to back up YOUR claim...
 

Cruise51

Senior member
Mar 2, 2005
635
0
0
Originally posted by: bobdelt
Well I have a homeless friend in Australia, 3 friends who left Canada to work in the US, all of whom claim Canada is a $h*t hole, dont know anybody from Northearn Europe, but I doubt living standards are much better. Keep in mind most countries in Europe have unemployment rates that dwarf the US.

But please, show me, lead me out of my ignorance, teach about Canada, Australia, and Europe about how much greater it is than US, about how there is less poverty and people earn much more money.

The statistics are easy to find... Google is your friend.
Just because America is "the best country in the world", doesn't mean it has the best living standards. Many countries (mainly northern and central European) have lower poverty/unemployment rates and higher average incomes.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Originally posted by: Todd33
Take your God spouting intolerance elsewhere CHOPPER GOD. What was that about casting the first stone? Oh ya, Christians are never-ending hypocrites and frauds.

Talk about being harsh!!
Chopper God actually is correct in what he is saying!