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Potential customer - bringing in 15 year old PC

VirtualLarry

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Just thought I would post this for LOLs. I'll update it if I ever get a chance to work on it.

One of my neighbors asked if I fixed PCs. They said their relative had a 15 year old PC, and said it was shutting down on them.

I told my neighbor to have them bring it over some time. I figure that the PSU and / or mobo and / or HDD (or all of the above) is shot.

I told my neighbor that I have a 2.9Ghz dual-core with Win7 for $150. Cost me $300 in parts, like three years ago. Tried to sell it at a flea market, along with a few other near-identical models, it never sold, so I've had it laying around. Figured I'd get rid of it cheap, if I could. AM2+ mobo, 4GB DDR2, AM3 dual-core CPU, NV chipset / IGP.

Anyways, does anyone want to guess what processor and OS it has in it, being 15 years old? I'm wondering if it's a P4, with XP, or possibly something older, like a PIII with WinME or something. (I don't even know if I still have any install discs that old, to restore it.)

If I need to recover data off of the HDD, if the mobo or PSU is shot, it's most certainly IDE back then, right? Maybe I'll get some use out of my stash of floppies, and my USB floppy drive.

Edit: Would it even be worth repairing the old PC, if, say, the PSU was the only thing wrong with it. Although, if it's got 15 years worth of XP malware on there, I kind of shudder to work on it. Maybe a new drive (I've got a small stockpile of smaller IDE drives, just for old PCs like this), and a Linux install? I can't imagine that an older PC like that would have much RAM. The 4GB or so we take for granted these days, was like princely riches back in the days of XP. (I would say well-endowed XP PCs of that era came with 1GB of RAM.)

Edit: Maybe a replacement PSU, a PCI SATA controller, a SATA HDD (SSD? Would that be crazy?), and a nice Linux distro? I think I still have a couple of PCI NV MX400 cards... in storage somewhere.
 
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Windows XP didn't officially release until October, 2001. If it's actually 15 years old and still running the original factory installed operating system, then it may be either WindowsME or Windows2000, on an IDE hard drive. There exist IDE SSD's, so that would be a possible upgrade for such an outdated machine.
 
vailr said:
Windows XP didn't officially release until October, 2001. If it's actually 15 years old and still running the original factory installed operating system, then it may be either WindowsME or Windows2000, on an IDE hard drive. There exist IDE SSD's, so that would be a possible upgrade for such an outdated machine.
Click to expand...

I thought that the IDE SSDs were in laptop (44-pin) form-factor, which supplies +5V power through the IDE connector, and does not have a separate power jack.
 
Yes, correct. I still have a laptop to desktop IDE hard drive adapter.
It was used only a few times when the IOpener was still a popular item, for a hacked installation of Windows XP.
It would allow use of an IDE SSD designed for a laptop in a desktop system.
However, the better idea would be to make a burned CD copy of whatever data may be still be useful, and then encourage the owner to donate the system "as is" to Goodwill.
 
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I don't see any reason to try to prop up an ancient system like that unless it's just for sits and giggles.

I bought a custom-built HP in OCT 2000... it was a PIII/ME system, so that would be about the right timeframe. I still have the build sheet for it: PIII @850MHz, 45GB HDD, 128MB RAM ($180 upgrade!) floppy and CD writer... $1665. Lasted less than a year. It was also the last HP anything I ever bought.
 
Perhaps I could sell the potential customer... hmm, S775 Q9300 too old? Maybe an i3-3240 rig? A4-6300 rig? With SSD? Is it best to have as future-proof a rig a possible, with the expectation that if they ran the old rig until it died, that they would do the same thing with a new one? I guess budget would dictate how future-proof I could make them a new rig.

Maybe a mini-PC?
 
VirtualLarry said:
Perhaps I could sell the potential customer... hmm, S775 Q9300 too old? Maybe an i3-3240 rig? A4-6300 rig? With SSD? Is it best to have as future-proof a rig a possible, with the expectation that if they ran the old rig until it died, that they would do the same thing with a new one? I guess budget would dictate how future-proof I could make them a new rig.

Maybe a mini-PC?
Click to expand...

My guess is they only use the old PC as a browser and emailer... I don't really see it being used for anything else. There are a bunch of options... new and used... that could fit that bill. Find out what the customer does and expects their equipment to do...

'Future proof' is such an overused phrase... needlessly so. A general purpose PC will work for many years (barring component failures) without upgrades... case in point with the 15-year old system and my 10-year old single-core Dell PATA laptop. They still work after all these years... just not at the level compared to newer tech. I can see 'future proofing' something like a high-end gaming computer, a PC for technical applications, etc, where obsolescence may be just 1 or 2 generations away.
 
Future-proofing a web browser box requires a good single-threaded performance and, quite importantly, powerful Has well43xx)graphics to play the best video quality, let's arbitarily say, 10 years from now. One must guess what the standards will be 10 years from now. It could be just 4k, or it could be 8k.

Now, I will say that a web browser box is legitimately future-proofable where as a gaming box be obsoleted by new software more easily or the desire for the benefits of lower power consumption. A gaming box actually reaches future-proof status when the user no longer has interest in more demanding titles and can afford to play the titles he does have at desired frame rates and noise levels.

Also, some people are "expansive" when suddenly given CPU power and want to try the a demanding software product.

So given all that, for a legitimately "future-proof" browser box, an A8, A10, or i3 with the best IGP available(Haswell 43xx) is the way to go.
 
"15 years old" sounds like a rough estimate. It could possibly be 13 years old, which means it is going to have at best a P4 with a low speed FSB. So it would still be completely useless. It is not worth repairing unless there is software on it that cannot be updated.
 
Charlie98 said:
My guess is they only use the old PC as a browser and emailer... I don't really see it being used for anything else.
Click to expand...
That's my guess as well. Person is in their later years, I don't see 3D gaming as being necessary to their PC enjoyment.
Torn Mind said:
Future-proofing a web browser box requires a good single-threaded performance and, quite importantly, powerful Has well43xx)graphics to play the best video quality, let's arbitarily say, 10 years from now. One must guess what the standards will be 10 years from now. It could be just 4k, or it could be 8k.
Click to expand...
Considering that Haswell's video-decode block is in hardware, and is AFAIK unchanged between i3-43xx and i3-41xx (only the EU count differs, or maybe even only the clocks), and, realistically, those CPUs will only be able to decode what the hardware can already handle (codecs, etc)., then neither one of the Haswell i3 series will do H.265 decoding very well, especially at 4K.

Given what I know of the rough age of the person, I don't think that they would be buying a 4K monitor anytime soon.

I agree that ST performance is important.
So given all that, for a legitimately "future-proof" browser box, an A8, A10, or i3 with the best IGP available(Haswell 43xx) is the way to go.
Click to expand...
I don't really see the benefit of the i3-43xx over the i3-41xx, but other than that, I'm basically in agreement.
sm625 said:
It is not worth repairing unless there is software on it that cannot be updated.
Click to expand...
That's a good observation.

Edit: In light of the requirement of high ST performance, should OCing be on the table? I'm thinking specifically of the G3258. Although, if they keep their PCs for 15 years, I think that a degraded rig after a few years would be a problem. So I vote no on that option, myself.

I'm thinking of the $200 barebones Broadwell 3805U Pentium CPU MSI Cubi unit. $30 for 4GB of RAM, or $50-55 for 8GB, $70 for a 120GB 850 EVO, could be a nice, small, quiet web-browsing machine.
http://promotions.newegg.com/msi/15-1486/index.html?icid=313636
 
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My brother bought a Compaq desktop at a thrift shop for $15 last year.

It worked fine. Had an AMD dual core chip in it. There was nothing wrong with it at all.

I put a Phenom 2 X4 in it that I had laying around, and away it went for sale to soemone who needed a newer system. I can't remember what I sold it for. Probably $150.00

Later on I realized that the AMD chip unlocked to 4 cores, so I got that out of it, too.

I put it in another computer that I still have as an office backup.

Anyway, that $15 was well worth it.
 
IDE SSD talk? Seriously?

No effing way I would 'work' on their PC other than to recover data off the disk to a new system. There simply is no point.

If I were to suggest something, it would likely be one of the $99 specials at newegg with Win7 included. As you already have complete systems laying around, definitely do that.
 
LTC8K6 said:
My brother bought a Compaq desktop at a thrift shop for $15 last year.

It worked fine. Had an AMD dual core chip in it. There was nothing wrong with it at all.

I put a Phenom 2 X4 in it that I had laying around, and away it went for sale to soemone who needed a newer system. I can't remember what I sold it for. Probably $150.00
Click to expand...
Yeah. I have a custom-built rig with an Asus NV 7025-chipset AM2+ board, and 4GB / 500GB. It originally had an X4 630 in it, but I removed that and put in an X2 255 (2.9Ghz). I could always swap the X4 back in, I suppose, and jack up the price $50.
mvbighead said:
If I were to suggest something, it would likely be one of the $99 specials at newegg with Win7 included. As you already have complete systems laying around, definitely do that.
Click to expand...
I not only have custom unsold systems around, I also have one of those "$99 Newegg Core2 specials with Win7" around, that I'm trying to get rid of. But I wonder if that would really be future-proof enough, or a good fit, considering: 1) The (relatively) poor IGP, and 2) the age of the rig. If they keep their PCs until they die, shouldn't I provide them with one with maximum lifespan? (new components? mobo with solid caps?)

Edit: Oh, almost forgot, picked up a Lenovo i3 (SB 3.4Ghz) rig, BNIB, that I could upgrade the RAM from 4 to 8GB, and install an SSD, and put a fresh copy of Win8.1 on the SSD for them. $200 for the base unit, $50 for the RAM, $70 for a 120GB 850 EVO, figure $325 w/USB wifi, maybe $350 if I throw in a new Logitech wireless keyboard / mouse? I should charge $50 for doing an OS re-install, so maybe $400, for a pretty powerful machine.

In comparison, you can get refurb SFF Acers with Haswell i3 CPUs, with 4GB / 500GB for $230-ish on ebay.
 
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You know, the thought occurred to me, why would an otherwise-rational person, be looking for a computer tech, for a 15 year old machine that is failing? Wouldn't they rationally figure that the PC had done its time, and it was a sign to buy a new one?

It might be true, that this person actually wants me to fix their PC, rather than sell them a new one. *Shudder*. Hope it's just the PSU.

Edit: On the plus side, if their HDD isn't dead, I think that AM2+ NV board has an IDE port on it.
 
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VirtualLarry said:
I not only have custom unsold systems around, I also have one of those "$99 Newegg Core2 specials with Win7" around, that I'm trying to get rid of. But I wonder if that would really be future-proof enough, or a good fit, considering: 1) The (relatively) poor IGP, and 2) the age of the rig. If they keep their PCs until they die, shouldn't I provide them with one with maximum lifespan? (new components? mobo with solid caps?)
Click to expand...

I don't think the poor iGPU would be much a problem for this person if they were used to a Pentium III/IV rig.

If you think the person might need a CPU with more grunt E6750 is under $5 shipped on ebay. (And on the DC5800 the priocessor is super easy to change out. In fact, I really like how HP designed the HSF (with screws) compared to the Intel push pin cooler)

Used Samsung 2 x 1GB was $10 shipped on ebay last time I checked, but I bet she could get by with the stock 2GB the machine came with.

EDIT: Here were my notes on the GMA 3100 iGPU (which is the stock iGPU on the DC5800):

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37250587&postcount=92

cbn said:
As far as the iGPU goes all three of my Core 2 Pre-built desktops have GMA 3100 iGPUs (via Q33, Q35 and G31 chipsets). So far this iGPU appears to work well enough (though currently two of the machines are using dGPU for gaming and the need for additional video outputs). My Dell Optiplex 755 with E6550 and GMA 3100 smoothly plays 1080p youtube in the chrome browser. For some reason Firefox has trouble though. My Dell Optiplex 360 with Xeon E5440 and GMA 3100 has no trouble with 1080p youtube using firefox.

EDIT: I disabled two cores on my E5440 Xeon (2.83 GHz dual core with 6MB cache remaining) and I had no problem with 1080p youtube when using the GMA 3100 iGPU in Firefox.

EDIT 2: Dell Optiplex 755 with E6550 and GMA 3100 now confirmed to play 1080p youtube smoothly with Firefox.
Click to expand...

So yeah, E6750 (which is like $1 more than E6550) would be a good upgrade choice. No need to bother with E6550 when the prices are that close.
 
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What about one of those Acer J1900 SFF rigs? Those come with 4GB / 500GB, for $140. (They were $130 on special last week.)

Although, I think my AM2+ rig for around the same price would be a better deal. At least you can upgrade to a discrete card with my custom rig.
 
VirtualLarry said:
Just thought I would post this for LOLs. I'll update it if I ever get a chance to work on it.

One of my neighbors asked if I fixed PCs. They said their relative had a 15 year old PC, and said it was shutting down on them.

I told my neighbor to have them bring it over some time. I figure that the PSU and / or mobo and / or HDD (or all of the above) is shot.

I told my neighbor that I have a 2.9Ghz dual-core with Win7 for $150. Cost me $300 in parts, like three years ago. Tried to sell it at a flea market, along with a few other near-identical models, it never sold, so I've had it laying around. Figured I'd get rid of it cheap, if I could. AM2+ mobo, 4GB DDR2, AM3 dual-core CPU, NV chipset / IGP.

Anyways, does anyone want to guess what processor and OS it has in it, being 15 years old? I'm wondering if it's a P4, with XP, or possibly something older, like a PIII with WinME or something. (I don't even know if I still have any install discs that old, to restore it.)

If I need to recover data off of the HDD, if the mobo or PSU is shot, it's most certainly IDE back then, right? Maybe I'll get some use out of my stash of floppies, and my USB floppy drive.

Edit: Would it even be worth repairing the old PC, if, say, the PSU was the only thing wrong with it. Although, if it's got 15 years worth of XP malware on there, I kind of shudder to work on it. Maybe a new drive (I've got a small stockpile of smaller IDE drives, just for old PCs like this), and a Linux install? I can't imagine that an older PC like that would have much RAM. The 4GB or so we take for granted these days, was like princely riches back in the days of XP. (I would say well-endowed XP PCs of that era came with 1GB of RAM.)

Edit: Maybe a replacement PSU, a PCI SATA controller, a SATA HDD (SSD? Would that be crazy?), and a nice Linux distro? I think I still have a couple of PCI NV MX400 cards... in storage somewhere.
Click to expand...
Did you get the PC yet? If not, most likely it has Windows XP installed for sure, and between Pentium III and Pentium IV range for sure. It's not even worth fixing and checking out at all as they don't have any power to run Windows 10 coming out in few months. The memory RAMs most likely use DDR 1 inside with only 400 MHz speed, plus IDE drives. Putting in 4GB of RAM will not help much at all due to lower RAM speed. We need at least 800MHz (PC2-6400U) at minimum to compete with today's time.

In case it's a Prescott Pentium 4 or Celeron D types, it MAY be worth repairing at minimum best, but don't spend too much time on it. Some of the later Prescotts have 64-bit capability, which will act on par with AMD E1-6010 10W APU Beema with Windows 8.1 installed.
 
When you get the computer, might want to check what scanners/printers the person had hooked up, if any. If you replace it with a newer computer, they might not have driver support, which might mean they'd need a new printer/scanner/etc.
 
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VirtualLarry said:
What about one of those Acer J1900 SFF rigs? Those come with 4GB / 500GB, for $140. (They were $130 on special last week.)

Although, I think my AM2+ rig for around the same price would be a better deal. At least you can upgrade to a discrete card with my custom rig.
Click to expand...
It's just in my own opinion (and you can disagree with me), but the cheapest and fastest route is to go with a refurbished Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 board plus a $7 Sempron 145 CPU capable of unlocking to dual-core known as Athlon 4450e, and bus-overclock it up to 3.40 GHz max on stock voltage. I would avoid any of these Bay-Trail Acer refurb specials.
 
waltchan said:
It's just in my own opinion (and you can disagree with me), but the cheapest and fastest route is to go with a refurbished Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 board plus a $7 Sempron 145 CPU capable of unlocking to dual-core known as Athlon 4450e, and bus-overclock it up to 3.40 GHz max on stock voltage. I would avoid any of these Bay-Trail Acer refurb specials.
Click to expand...

How much are you paying for that refurbed Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3?
 
waltchan said:
This refurbished $24.99 shipped Asus FM2 A55 board sounds like a good budget choice:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132475
Click to expand...

That's a great deal, but I already have a stock of three MSI A55M FM2+ boards, brand new, that I got from TD for around $27 ea. Along with three A4-6300 APUs for them.

While the idea of overclocking and unlocking a Sempron 145 sounds like a great deal, budget-wise, I don't think I would risk doing such things with a customer's machine. Especially with someone that might not be so savvy with PCs.
 
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