Pot A Tax Windfall?

[actuarial]

I don't where the demarcation is, but , e.g., I wouldn't care about paying a tax of $5 per oz. You slap a $100 tax per oz and I'd be growing my own even if it were dirt weed.

My point is that at some point a tax gets too high and provides a strong motivation to evade it. In this case we'd be back to illegal dealers selling black market weed or people just opting to grow their own.

I absolutely think there's a good deal of revenue to be had by legalizing and taxing if done correctly.

Fern

The taxes on cigarettes are really high in Canada (Nearly 40% effective rate looking at this rate table and an $11 pack of smokes after tax) and people rarely get black market smokes. A lot of it is because black market smokes are not nearly as good (or at least aren't perceived as good) as name brand smokes.

Now, weed is certainly easier to grow, but most still won't do it out of laziness. In addition, once you factor in mass production of marijuana (real mass production that comes with legalization not the piddly shit they do now) cost per ounce to produce is going to plummet. I wouldn't be surprised if the price of weed in the absence of any taxes would be less than $50 (or much less, I don't see why a pack of weed smokes would be that much more expensive than a pack of cigarette smokes) and you can tax it all to hell and it'd still be a significant discount over what it is now.

 

[dawp]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/release...th+&+Medicine+News)&utm_content=Google+Reader

ScienceDaily (Sep. 10, 2012) — A new study from the University of Southern California (USC) has found a link between recreational marijuana use and an increased risk of developing subtypes of testicular cancer that tend to carry a somewhat worse prognosis. Published early online in Cancer, a peer-reviewed journal of the American Cancer Society, the findings suggest that the potential cancer-causing effects of marijuana on testicular cells should be considered not only in personal decisions regarding recreational drug use, but also when marijuana and its derivatives are used for therapeutic purposes in young male patients.

Alcohol causes far more health problems than pot and it's legal. How many long term alcoholics do you know?

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Looks like it cures cancer now too. Really.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/19/marijuana-and-cancer_n_1898208.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

 

[werepossum]

Disclaimer: I've never smoked pot, nor do I have any desire to.

There's no good reason for pot to be illegal. In fact, what people do in the privacy of their own home is no business of the government.

Seriously, if it's not negatively affecting anyone else, why do we waste so many hundreds of billions of dollars trying to stop it?

Exactly my position, no desire to try it but no good reason for it to be illegal either.

 

[wirednuts]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/release...th+&+Medicine+News)&utm_content=Google+Reader

ScienceDaily (Sep. 10, 2012) — A new study from the University of Southern California (USC) has found a link between recreational marijuana use and an increased risk of developing subtypes of testicular cancer that tend to carry a somewhat worse prognosis. Published early online in Cancer, a peer-reviewed journal of the American Cancer Society, the findings suggest that the potential cancer-causing effects of marijuana on testicular cells should be considered not only in personal decisions regarding recreational drug use, but also when marijuana and its derivatives are used for therapeutic purposes in young male patients.

if i had to replace my balls with rubber, i would get bigger ones then i have now. so where is the loss? i dont want kids either

 

[hal2kilo]

if i had to replace my balls with rubber, i would get bigger ones then i have now. so where is the loss? i dont want kids either

Figures, a response about balls from wirednuts:awe:

 

[Ns1]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/release...UOTE] newsflash: everything causes cancer

 

[Spungo]

The difference is pot is retarded.

The pot calls the kettle black. The pot is banned for racism.

Cancer is a retarded reason to ban tobacco or weed. If anything, that just means it should be illegal to smoke. You can still eat these plants (although eating straight tobacco would probably kill you).

 

[TechBoyJK]

The pot calls the kettle black. The pot is banned for racism.

Cancer is a retarded reason to ban tobacco or weed. If anything, that just means it should be illegal to smoke. You can still eat these plants (although eating straight tobacco would probably kill you).

I'm sure smoking newspaper is bad for you. We should ban newspaper.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I'm sure smoking newspaper is bad for you. We should ban newspaper.

We're doing our damnedest as a nation to not buy the things, but publishers just keep pushing these stacks of cancer paper down our throats. They could at least wrap it around some weed to make it more appealing.

 

[Fern]

The taxes on cigarettes are really high in Canada (Nearly 40% effective rate looking at this rate table and an $11 pack of smokes after tax) and people rarely get black market smokes.
-snip-

They do it here. it's not rare.

Heck, we had an AQ related gang smuggling cigs from NC (low tax state) to NY (high tax state) and putting counterfeit NY tax stamps on them that was busted a few yrs ago.

Fern

 

[Smoblikat]

the only problem i have is legalizing weed wont stop the drug war. all drugs should be legal for anyone over 21. control it, sure. make it as evil as sudafed. but dont go putting people in jail just for possessing personal amounts. its completely counterproductive.

Why 21? That number is extremely arbitrary. Make EVERYTHING 18, if im an adult I should be treated as one. Its not like weed is the only drug you can get high on, DXM and LSA are two great examples of things I could have gotten when I was 14.

 

[actuarial]

They do it here. it's not rare.

Heck, we had an AQ related gang smuggling cigs from NC (low tax state) to NY (high tax state) and putting counterfeit NY tax stamps on them that was busted a few yrs ago.

Fern

While I'm not questioning your example, how much money can possibly be in that racket?

 

[Anarchist420]

Why 21? That number is extremely arbitrary.

Aren't all numbers picked by govts arbitrary?

 

[DucatiMonster696]

There is no sound reason to tax pot directly if it is legalized. If pot is completely benign and harmless then it should not be taxed. Taxation just serves as a mechanism to discourage use/consumption. In addition taxation of pot won't solve the budgetary spending problems which effect states and at most it will only serve as a short term boost on tax revenues up until politicians think of new ways to blow through any increased tax revenue brought about taxation of pot and dig their debt holes deeeper.

Furthermore state governments should not be in the role of determining who can or cannot enter the market place to sell pot if it is indeed legalized. Doing so would severely come at the cost of higher prices for the consumer if producers are not allowed to naturally compete in a free market based on prices and without government propping up and supporting large players by giving them an unfair advantage in establishing a early consumer base.

 

[unokitty]

There is no sound reason to tax pot directly if it is legalized. If pot is completely benign and harmless then it should not be taxed. Taxation just serves as a mechanism to discourage use/consumption. In addition taxation of pot won't solve the budgetary spending problems which effect states and at most it will only serve as a short term boost on tax revenues up until politicians think of new ways to blow through any increased tax revenue brought about taxation of pot and dig their debt holes deeeper.

Furthermore state governments should not be in the role of determining who can or cannot enter the market place to sell pot if it is indeed legalized. Doing so would severely come at the cost of higher prices for the consumer if producers are not allowed to naturally compete in a free market based on prices and without government propping up and supporting large players by giving them an unfair advantage in establishing a early consumer base.

Now with pot illegal, we all pay taxes to provide for the court system, the law enforcement system, the prison system, and so on... Just because it is not a dedicated tax, doesn't mean that you, and I, are not paying.

My perception is that currently we have an immovable object meets an irresistible force situation.

It seems that the current political situation is that the general public finds the legalisation of pot unacceptable. At the same time, we have a status quo where many people use pot and contribute money to ipso facto criminal organizations for their pot.

It seems that these conflicting dynamics have combined to create a deadlock where each side finds the other's position politically unacceptable.

From my perspective, if one state could create a situation where they legalize pot and generate a positive revenue stream, I think that that would break the deadlock.

Note that I don't disagree with you that in an ideal world the tax system would be different.

Still, I am willing to chance some extra taxes to get to a more stable situation quicker. And I strongly suspect that there will be overall tax savings as LE, courts, and prisons have less need for funds.

Uno

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Now with pot illegal, we all pay taxes to provide for the court system, the law enforcement system, the prison system, and so on... Just because it is not a dedicated tax, doesn't mean that you, and I, are not paying.

My perception is that currently we have an immovable object meets an irresistible force situation.

It seems that the current political situation is that the general public finds the legalisation of pot unacceptable. At the same time, we have a status quo where many people use pot and contribute money to ipso facto criminal organizations for their pot.

It seems that these conflicting dynamics have combined to create a deadlock where each side finds the other's position politically unacceptable.

From my perspective, if one state could create a situation where they legalize pot and generate a positive revenue stream, I think that that would break the deadlock.

Note that I don't disagree with you that in an ideal world the tax system would be different.

Still, I am willing to chance some extra taxes to get to a more stable situation quicker. And I strongly suspect that there will be overall tax savings as LE, courts, and prisons have less need for funds.

Uno

Taxes are in and of themselves regressive endeavors which society should only support if the benefits are greater then the taxes being levied. The windfall for states will be in a giant reduction and nullification of tax payer money spent combating, prosecuting and incarcerating pot users and dealers today.

The so called "Tax Windfall" will be sort lived and thrown into the black hole of state budgets in due time. No state is going to solve their budgetary issues from solely by taxing legalized pot. Furthermore more tax revenue would actually be generated indirectly via growth and expansion of businesses which sell pot related products if the cash crop is not taxed so as to create a disincentive to use hemp/pot plants for alternative uses which are not recreational in use.