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Possible Slim Xbox 360?

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gorcorps said:
I'm worried about them making it smaller. It took them forever to work the kinks out of the larger case model, so I'm sure a smaller model would cause new issues.
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<shrug> It will depend on the heat generated which was the cause of all of the RROD problems. A single-chip should generate much less heat than even the dual-45nm chips in the Jasper but...yeah, how well it can pull the heat out of the case is going to be an issue.
 
Queasy said:
I wouldn't be posting here if I were. 😛
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i simply ask because i don't see why people are so quick to defend MS.

jasper hasn't even been out long enough to determine failure rates. most of the original xboxes were dying between years 1 and 2, many between 2 and 3. and they still get ridiculously hot. granted, it's not like my older xbox, where i legitimately fear the casing may begin to melt, but it still seems like they have some problems to work out without trying to downsize the case even further.

they should've just put the thing in a mATX PC case and called it a day.
 
smackababy said:
I saw that picture this morning and, as I said, it looks fake. What are all the things on the back? The front right "memory card" slot looks all wrong. A 140mm fan Cooler Master fan? I'm sure those are outsourced cheap Chinese made fans, why not go with that instead of a "name brand"? I just don't see this being real.
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extra ports like optical out and extra usb ports? Far right looks like the power input, going left possible optical out, component/RCA then HDMI along with USB ports(maybe 4) and Ethernet input somewhere in there. Maybe they will include on-board wifi or something and included a external antenna. Front just looks like a single USB port and memory card port.

regardless I think its pointless for a slim Xbox 360 unless it is to cut costs only I don't think the Xbox 360 is all that big. Now the original Xbox needed a slim bad. Even the PS3 slim isn't a whole lot smaller then the original PS3. Now the PS2 slim was truly a slim lol. But if they go with a slim line/slot load(laptop)dvd drive it could look good.
 
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brblx said:
i simply ask because i don't see why people are so quick to defend MS.

jasper hasn't even been out long enough to determine failure rates. most of the original xboxes were dying between years 1 and 2, many between 2 and 3. and they still get ridiculously hot. granted, it's not like my older xbox, where i legitimately fear the casing may begin to melt, but it still seems like they have some problems to work out without trying to downsize the case even further.

they should've just put the thing in a mATX PC case and called it a day.
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I've got a Jasper and I've got an original Xenon. The Jasper is ridiculously much more cooler and quieter than the Xenon.

There was a thread in the forum (started by me) showing a downward trend in the incidents of failure for the 360 especially since the introduction of the Jasper. The long-term trend is still forming but the fact that the Jasper is noticeably cooler than previous versions bodes well.
 
brblx said:
i simply ask because i don't see why people are so quick to defend MS.
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I defend them because they did the right thing with the extended warranty. All signs point to 360 failures falling to acceptable levels. I'm assuming at this point that they learned their lesson and I move on with my life.
 
I'm just hoping that they integrate the power supply in the box this time. They should be able to do this easily, since the power supply should shrink considerably with this new chip.
 
peritusONE said:
I defend them because they did the right thing with the extended warranty. All signs point to 360 failures falling to acceptable levels. I'm assuming at this point that they learned their lesson and I move on with my life.
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This.

They could have pulled a Toyota.
 
Queasy said:
<shrug> It will depend on the heat generated which was the cause of all of the RROD problems. A single-chip should generate much less heat than even the dual-45nm chips in the Jasper but...yeah, how well it can pull the heat out of the case is going to be an issue.
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The root of the RRoD problem wasn't "heat" in the traditional sense of "I melted my CPU overclocking it". It's "the BGA holding the GPU to the board sometimes fails when heated up and down too often" - that's why you'd only see the RRoD when the system was power-cycled. If they're not using a BGA to hold the new combined processing unit in place, the RRoD isn't going to happen.
 
erwos said:
The root of the RRoD problem wasn't "heat" in the traditional sense of "I melted my CPU overclocking it". It's "the BGA holding the GPU to the board sometimes fails when heated up and down too often" - that's why you'd only see the RRoD when the system was power-cycled. If they're not using a BGA to hold the new combined processing unit in place, the RRoD isn't going to happen.
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LOL, if they are not using a BGA package, what would they use? Pretty much any large pinout IC today comes in a Ball Grid Array package unless it's a socketed part.
 
tw1164 said:
Why would MS put an optical out on the redesign?
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TV + receiver. Many low-end receivers can't extract audio from HDMI.

The composite cables included with 360s now don't include the optical port that the component cables have. Even if they did, you need to fix the wiring or the xbox resets itself if you try to use optical-from-av-cable plus HDMI.

The only easy way to add optical out right now is to buy the $50 HDMI cable + optical dongle set from MS.

Of course MS is still charging $100 for wifi instead of adding a $5 chip to the motherboard, so who knows if they'll ever add a standard optical out port.
 
Ben Heck takes a look at the rumored 360 slim motherboard over at Joystiq.

new-360-callouts---benheck.jpg
 
DaveSimmons said:
TV + receiver. Many low-end receivers can't extract audio from HDMI.

The composite cables included with 360s now don't include the optical port that the component cables have. Even if they did, you need to fix the wiring or the xbox resets itself if you try to use optical-from-av-cable plus HDMI.

The only easy way to add optical out right now is to buy the $50 HDMI cable + optical dongle set from MS.

Of course MS is still charging $100 for wifi instead of adding a $5 chip to the motherboard, so who knows if they'll ever add a standard optical out port.
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I understand why they're needed, but MS has no reason to. Like you said they have a 'solution' already available, it's just going to you cost $50 more. I could see them adding wifi before an optical port.
 
tw1164 said:
I could see them adding wifi before an optical port.
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I can't. Doesn't really fit in with what they've done in the past.

Adding USB storage support takes the place of the memory cards which weren't selling that well or meeting consumer needs in the first place.

Adding internal WiFi would increase the costs of the Xbox 360 and harm sales of the WiFi adapter. Though, I do think the WiFi adapter could stand at least a 40-50% price cut even if it is A/B/G/N.
 
Queasy said:
Ben Heck takes a look at the rumored 360 slim motherboard over at Joystiq.

new-360-callouts---benheck.jpg
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It could still have an external hard drive, just that the port the hard drive connects to may be attached to the case or something instead of the motherboard. Then the port is connected to the board through sata. Maybe they don't want the HDD to be perpendicular to the board for slimness?
 
Well with USB stick drives being supported soon, further increases the idea of 360 slim-down. Here's my take on it.

In the 4 1/2 years of the 360's life it has gone through two significant revisions.

The original Xenon had a CPU/GPU of 90nm/90nm and a 203W PSU. Then came Zephyr; same as Xenon except with an HDMI port. Then came the Falcon w/ a CPU/GPU of 65nm/90nm and a 175W PSU. The latest revision; Jasper (released early September 2008) has a CPU/GPU of 65nm/65nm and a 150W PSU: Not too shabby, but...

It's 2010, technology has advanced; 45nm CPU's are now the norm (PS3 slim has a CPU/GPU of 45nm/65nm). 32nm is even starting to emerge (Core i3, Dual Core i5). Another 360 revision is imminent.

The 360 uses an ATI derived GPU. ATI's next family of GPU's, "Northen Islands" will be 32nm, or possibly 28nm. ATI's latest family, "Evergreen" (released 6 months ago) run very cool and efficiently (using 40nm). It may be such that the new CPU/GPU combo will incorporate some variation of this new tech further reducing or even eliminating the RROD completely. Of course performance will remain the same.

Personally, I don't care if it comes in a smaller package, but M$ is pushing Natal as the next big thing. And seeing how well PS3 Slim sales did, marketing probably sees a new sleeker-looking system as a good way to put an even bigger spotlight on Natal; helping drive sales of both it and the 360 in general.

Lastly (and quite obviously) a 360 "slim" won't cost more than current models. If anything, it'll get a price-cut, again, to help drive sales.
 
You don't just apply an optical die strink to a preexisting computing technology unless it was designed to shrink that low. You saw one major revision with the Xbox when they went from 90nm to 65nm. The PS3 has an identical CPU as the main proc in the Cell as the Xenon. Therefore it wouldn't be out of the question to see a 45nm shrink on that... because the PowerPC was designed to shrink.

However, I would highly doubt you will see anything more than a half node reduction... 55nm on any future revision of the ATI GPU as it is a hell of a lot harder to do an optical die shrink AGAIN as it wasn't built with 45nm being an option.
 
peritusONE said:
I defend them because they did the right thing with the extended warranty. All signs point to 360 failures falling to acceptable levels. I'm assuming at this point that they learned their lesson and I move on with my life.
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Lotheron said:
This.

They could have pulled a Toyota.
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lol that's funny

They knowing let these systems come out defective and it took them how long to accept that it was their fault and how long to offer extended warranties???

Toyota knew they had the problem and still sold them as they were just like Microsoft.

Anywho with that out of the way, if there really is a smaller version coming out, I'll buy it to replace my launch system which is insanely loud.
 
hooflung said:
However, I would highly doubt you will see anything more than a half node reduction... 55nm on any future revision of the ATI GPU as it is a hell of a lot harder to do an optical die shrink AGAIN as it wasn't built with 45nm being an option.
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Thanks for the info, but couldn't they just use a new, redesigned GPU that has the same performance as the previous design? Seems plausible if the new board has a CPU/GPU combo chip instead of two seperate chips.
 
Did I call it or what? And with a 45nm CPU/GPU chip to boot. No price drop though... yet. I sold my Jasper 360 last month based on the slim rumor, damn glad I did since everyone will want the new one now. :ninja:
 
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