Possible move to northern Arizona-questions

slag

Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
10,473
81
101
My wife is looking at a job based in the Phoenix or Flagstaff area. It will include travel in the area up to south utah occasionally, but primarily be in the northern AZ region and not that often.

We currently live in Lawrence KS where we have all 4 seasons, snow, etc. Wondering what the main gotchas of moving to the desert would be, aside from lack of water, no snow, a lot more indian and hispanic peoples, illegals, etc. What other major hurdles, barriers would there be, and, is it a smart move? She'd be making approximately 10-15% more, but the cost of living is basically a push. I'd have to find work again, and I make more than she does.

I'm hoping someone who lives in the southwest will chime in and give me their opinion of the area and if they like it or not.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
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Phoenix and Flagstaff are two wildly different areas. Flagstaff is a much smaller town that's at a very high elevation. As a city it's one of the "snowiest" cities in the US. They get over 100" of snow a year. It's sort of a weird combination of people...you get ski bunnies, rednecks, native americans and some academics all mingled together. It's a small town feel with a VERY high cost of living. The summer temps are awesome and there's little humity, and the spring and falls will be much cooler than you are used to. Winters are A LOT of snow, but probably no more cold than Kansas gets.

Phoenix is a huge sprawling metro area. From the far east side of Mesa to the West edge of Avondale it's like 50 miles. Seriously...you drive...and drive....and drive...and drive...and it's much the same going from the north edge to the south edge. Just about anything you want (and don't want) you can get there. It was one of the worst hit places in the real estate collapse so house prices have dropped a lot and they are reasonable again. It's an HOA ruled city where almost all housing is under some HOA's control. Every house looks mostly the same, and you have very little actual yard. Most back yards are nothing more than a pool, a patio, and some gravel. Summmers are pretty miserable...expect it to be 110+ starting in May and lasting through labor day. In late July/August the monsoon season hits and brings in extra humidity (not a lot) but it's enough to make the 118 degree temps feel even more horrible. It's not unbearable though...it really is a "dry" heat and you can walk outside without being drench in sweat like the muggy midwest/south east. But it's no fun being 100+ degrees at 10:30 at night. Late fall through winter and spring are awesome though.

If you have kids you need to be selective. Gilbert and Chandler have decent schools as they are newer suburbias, and some of the farther east newer developments in Mesa are good. I'm more familiar with the east valley. Once you go west of I-17 I'm not too familiar with the towns. There's many AZ atot'ers so they can chime in.

You really need to visit these two places though as they are worlds different from each other.
 

olds

Elite Member
Mar 3, 2000
50,122
778
126
That's quite the move for very little extra money and a lot of uncertainty.
 

tboo

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2000
7,626
1
81
Phoenix and Flagstaff are two wildly different areas. Flagstaff is a much smaller town that's at a very high elevation. As a city it's one of the "snowiest" cities in the US. They get over 100" of snow a year. It's sort of a weird combination of people...you get ski bunnies, rednecks, native americans and some academics all mingled together. It's a small town feel with a VERY high cost of living. The summer temps are awesome and there's little humity, and the spring and falls will be much cooler than you are used to. Winters are A LOT of snow, but probably no more cold than Kansas gets.

Phoenix is a huge sprawling metro area. From the far east side of Mesa to the West edge of Avondale it's like 50 miles. Seriously...you drive...and drive....and drive...and drive...and it's much the same going from the north edge to the south edge. Just about anything you want (and don't want) you can get there. It was one of the worst hit places in the real estate collapse so house prices have dropped a lot and they are reasonable again. It's an HOA ruled city where almost all housing is under some HOA's control. Every house looks mostly the same, and you have very little actual yard. Most back yards are nothing more than a pool, a patio, and some gravel. Summmers are pretty miserable...expect it to be 110+ starting in May and lasting through labor day. In late July/August the monsoon season hits and brings in extra humidity (not a lot) but it's enough to make the 118 degree temps feel even more horrible. It's not unbearable though...it really is a "dry" heat and you can walk outside without being drench in sweat like the muggy midwest/south east. But it's no fun being 100+ degrees at 10:30 at night. Late fall through winter and spring are awesome though.

If you have kids you need to be selective. Gilbert and Chandler have decent schools as they are newer suburbias, and some of the farther east newer developments in Mesa are good. I'm more familiar with the east valley. Once you go west of I-17 I'm not too familiar with the towns. There's many AZ atot'ers so they can chime in.

You really need to visit these two places though as they are worlds different from each other.

Do you have the Monsoon season up in Phoenix? I lived in Tucson for a while & the summers weren't that bad when the monsoon season kicked in. Its was really only very hot from the middle of May to the middle of June.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
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Do you have the Monsoon season up in Phoenix? I lived in Tucson for a while & the summers weren't that bad when the monsoon season kicked in. Its was really only very hot from the middle of May to the middle of June.

Tucson is a higher elevation and not in a pit like Phoenix. It also doesn't have an unnaturally higher humidity level like Phoenix does from all of the people who moved there trying to make it look like something it isn't and watering their yards non-stop to keep a green yard & grass growing.

Phoenix does get a monsoon season that brings some pretty crazy weather. Walls of dust coming at you that turn into mud when the rain hits. Bleh. High winds. Some of the most crazy lightning I've ever seen. And rainfalls of an 1" or more in what seems like minutes creating flash floods on a hard packed desert soil make for flooded roads and low laying areas.
 

slag

Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
10,473
81
101
That's quite the move for very little extra money and a lot of uncertainty.

She's burned out and we've always wanted to move out of the midwest. The move would be paid for but yeah, we are weighing the pros and cons of uprooting everything and moving and a lot of uncertainty.
 

Roidranger999

Junior Member
Dec 10, 2016
1
0
1
My wife is looking at a job based in the Phoenix or Flagstaff area. It will include travel in the area up to south utah occasionally, but primarily be in the northern AZ region and not that often.

We currently live in Lawrence KS where we have all 4 seasons, snow, etc. Wondering what the main gotchas of moving to the desert would be, aside from lack of water, no snow, a lot more indian and hispanic peoples, illegals, etc. What other major hurdles, barriers would there be, and, is it a smart move? She'd be making approximately 10-15% more, but the cost of living is basically a push. I'd have to find work again, and I make more than she does.

I'm hoping someone who lives in the southwest will chime in and give me their opinion of the area and if they like it or not.
 

Dr. Detroit

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2004
8,527
931
126
Flagstaff is an amazing gorgeous place. It's home to a large University, lots of retirees, lots of ski-bum granola/hippie types, and has that smaller town feel.

Its not in a desert, its in a pine forest. While not cheap, its still pretty reasonable.

Massive outdoor enthusiast community with lots to do and explore. Good amount of tourists as well as it links to the Grand Canyon and Lake Powell to the North.

Phoenix is a sprawling mega city with no redeeming value. Tucson is nicer but more rustic and poorer. Tucson is cooler summer compared to Phoenix and colder winters as its at a much higher elevation.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,444
5,852
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OP, I made a similar move (almost same area, but small town north of Topeka so bit more shock going from that to large metro, to Phoenix - well East Valley) in July.

The weather isn't too bad. Yes it gets hot but if you stay out of the sun and can get into A/C you'll be more than fine. I hate hot weather (just now finally is starting to feel like the fall cooldown that Kansas would have in like early September, its ~70 in the day and 40-50 at night), but I didn't have too much issue. It is much less humid than Kansas, but also because of the monsoon season it doesn't get too awful dry during the summer (I think it rained almost every day for like the first week we were here, but it'd have a dust storm then it'd rain for like an hour, then it'd get sunny). And it hasn't been too terribly dry right now (where normally I'd be having issues with dry skin in Kansas; likewise with dry sinuses, I haven't really had that much down here). It is sunny a lot too. It is very dusty though (will basically perpetually have a layer of dust on your windows/car, even without the full dust storms/haboobs).

You can get to snow without much effort (as pointed out Flagstaff gets plenty). If you're outdoorsy I think you'd find a lot to enjoy down here (there's a full on forest not far away, and Sedona and Flagstaff area, of course the Grand Canyon, and if you get up to Utah there's plenty to enjoy). Oh and Lake Havasu. And Vegas and San Diego aren't far if you want what those offer.

Unless you're some pyschotic asshole about immigrants I don't think you'll have a problem down here. Kansas has plenty as well. But if seeing Spanish text or hearing "press _ for English" sends you into a rage then, well you probably need to see a psychiatrist as you have anger issues, but you'll be exposed to some of that (not that its overbearing).

Phoenix is kinda like two big blocks of metro (Really the Phoenix Metro area makes me think of if KC Metro over to Manhattan (so Lawrence and Topeka too) were all right next to each other. Most cities really look similar these days (with lots of suburb style housing/apartments and strip malls dominating). Scottsdale would be like Johnson County area, Tempe would be like K-State/KU, Mesa would be like the area around K-State/KU (some nicer some less nice). Chandler would be like the bedroom communities (between KC/Lawrence, Lawrence/Topeka, Topeka/Manhattan) and nicer parts of Topeka. There's plenty of nice parts (lots of neighborhoods with lagoons where you can go out on paddleboats), and some less nice parts. Some areas you can tell were built up in like the 50s (lots of single story ranch style houses). Guess I can't comment too much on the Northwest part of the metro area (I've been that way but not a lot, seems typical, some nice areas, some not, lots of the strip mall and suburban housing areas).

As pointed out HOAs seem very common around here (might be a good thing to you, I personally hate them, but they don't seem particularly worse or anything). Depending on area prices can be kinda high for housing. I don't know they'd be much worse than KC area, but your cost of living will likely go up. Might have more opportunity though. Supposedly Phoenix area is doing very well (I think best in the nation even?) in economic growth. That can change though (understand that if they get tough on immigrants, that could absolutely hurt the economy here).

Schools actually seem less good than Kansas (if you can believe that, although it sounds like Kansas government was trying to make sure Kansas stays the butt of the jokes with regards to education), in that my nephews in elementary school were actually ahead of where the students (in Chandler, supposedly one of the better districts I believe) were when they started. High school seems roughly similar (two nephews in high school and they're basically doing the same as they were in Kansas). Chandler also does quarters instead of semesters (so summer vacation is much shorter, but they get big breaks in the fall, winter, and spring).

If you like casinos/gambling and resorts there's a lot of them down here. There's plenty of stuff to do (lots of mountainy areas to hike just in and around the city, Camelback in Scottsdale for instance and there's another one that I know is popular). Tempe even has a beach area (where they put a beach up to the canal reservoir area they have).

Driving sucks because it does take plenty of time to get places (it'd probably take you two hours on even a good traffic day to get from the NW corner to the SE corner of the metro area, or 1-1.5 hours north to south or east to west) and traffic can be bad (from what I've seen its worse than KC), so if you have to commute it can suck, but its not California (and probably Eastern corridor DC-Boston) bad. The roads aren't bad but they seem to flood easily, and some little things to get used to but nothing too bad. I can't comment on driver quality (initially they seemed better than Kansas, but I've seen a lot of people drive without their lights on at night, and with the snowbirds here you'll find some people holding up traffic by driving slow).

Tucson is a higher elevation and not in a pit like Phoenix. It also doesn't have an unnaturally higher humidity level like Phoenix does from all of the people who moved there trying to make it look like something it isn't and watering their yards non-stop to keep a green yard & grass growing.

Phoenix does get a monsoon season that brings some pretty crazy weather. Walls of dust coming at you that turn into mud when the rain hits. Bleh. High winds. Some of the most crazy lightning I've ever seen. And rainfalls of an 1" or more in what seems like minutes creating flash floods on a hard packed desert soil make for flooded roads and low laying areas.

The humidity isn't due to people watering their shitty yards (which is ridiculously stupid, but you should be blaming the senseless sprawling green golf courses more), its from them literally paying to import water from the Colorado River via canal to prop up literal farming (that's something that's fairly unique to Phoenix, there's full on farms and ranches in the middle of some of the city areas, most of them in the more dense areas having been bought out finally but there's still quite a few, I pass by a big cotton field and there were multiple cornfields when we first got down here). Actually I think Phoenix being less dry is caused by the ring of mountains getting the the weather from Baja area of Mexico to drop (much like how Western New Mexico gets the rain because the Rockies get it to drop).

After living in Kansas the monsoons are overrated (and people in Asia would likely roll their eyes), they're only bad because the poor drainage causes flash flooding. They're basically just typical thunderstorms only not lasting as long as typical thunderstorm outbreak in Kansas (considering what they called 1 in 100 year events down here this year, seemed like we'd get one a year and often times 2-3 in Kansas, and plenty of other storming). Sure the dust storms can get kinda bad (but not really any worse than say the snowstorms that plenty of other places get, and typically is closer to just fog; and usually they're followed by a quick rain that clears the air).
 

XavierMace

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2013
4,307
450
126
Phoenix is a sprawling mega city with no redeeming value. Tucson is nicer but more rustic and poorer. Tucson is cooler summer compared to Phoenix and colder winters as its at a much higher elevation.

That may well be the first time I've heard somebody call Tucson the nicer of the two.

My wife is looking at a job based in the Phoenix or Flagstaff area. It will include travel in the area up to south utah occasionally, but primarily be in the northern AZ region and not that often.

We currently live in Lawrence KS where we have all 4 seasons, snow, etc. Wondering what the main gotchas of moving to the desert would be, aside from lack of water, no snow, a lot more indian and hispanic peoples, illegals, etc. What other major hurdles, barriers would there be, and, is it a smart move? She'd be making approximately 10-15% more, but the cost of living is basically a push. I'd have to find work again, and I make more than she does.

I'm hoping someone who lives in the southwest will chime in and give me their opinion of the area and if they like it or not.

I'd mostly echo what vi edit said although I tell everybody to come out once in summer before moving out here. Some people don't mind it, some people can't stand it. It's not just the fact that it's hot (and a lot of people underestimate the heat itself), it's the fact it's hot for half the year. We were still in the 90's in October. On the other hand, it's December now, an I'm sitting here with my windows open in my room laughing as I watch videos of people driving in the snow and failing. Cost of living is a fraction of what it is in most major cities, especially the ones on the coasts. Not just the housing itself, electricity is cheap, food is cheap, etc. If you're a car or gun guy, we don't have the restrictive laws of Cali (mostly). If you're an outdoors guy, there's plenty of stuff to do in the desert and it's only a couple of hours to snow and ski country. LA, San Diego, and Vegas are all under a days drive. Phoenix itself is NOT a tourist destination, there's largely nothing to do here in that regards. There's a handful of museums and the zoo. That's about it. No real amusement parks or things like that. Finding a non-HOA home can certainly be done, it just means you'll be looking at older houses.

I'd have to get a pretty enticing offer to consider moving anywhere. You couldn't pay me enough to live in California.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,847
33,907
136
OP, depending on the kind of stuff you like to do, you may want to look at some of the smaller towns near Flagstaff. Williams isn't too far from Flagstaff and is much cheaper though there is absolutely nothing to there wrt cultural events, night life, or urban amenities. With the university, Flag pulls in pretty decent musical acts (Phoenix pulls in the big names). Outdoor activities are about as easily accessible from there as from Flagstaff. A bit further west is Ashfork which is lower in elevation and makes Williams look like Paris bit is cheaper still. Moving east from Flagstaff is, nevermind, just don't, it's horrible. Don't get me wrong, the Painted Desert is awesome for hiking but living there is no. Between Flag and Phoenix are several small towns that cost almost as much as Flag so you might as well live in Flag.

You mention needing to travel to southern Utah. If this is going to be frequent, try to find out specific locations in southern Utah then take a close look at the highway network because there are only a handful of connecting routes between AZ and NM (that pesky canyon thing on the west side and the mesas on the east tend to mess up travel routes). Depending on where your wife needs to drive may affect where you want to live.


That may well be the first time I've heard somebody call Tucson the nicer of the two.

Tucson embraces the desert, Phoenix stomps that sucker flat. Well not so much anymore, Tucson has mostly adopted Phoenix style earth raping.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
60,031
10,522
126
I can't imagine what it would take to get me to move into that kind of heat. Captured alive, and dragged in chains probably. No other options?
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,847
33,907
136
I can't imagine what it would take to get me to move into that kind of heat. Captured alive, and dragged in chains probably. No other options?
Flagstaff isn't hot. At 7000 feet, it's in the pine forest. Burns like a mofo every few years but heat isn't an issue.

Phoenix sucks dog's balls at 1100ft with Tucson slightly better at 2400ft. Elevation means everything in the west.
 

Carson Dyle

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2012
8,173
524
126
That's quite the move for very little extra money and a lot of uncertainty.

I'd move from Lawrence to Flagstaff so fast that I'd leave everything I owned behind. Yes, quite a move.

Wouldn't live in Phoenix if you put a gun to my head.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,067
24,396
136
I was in Phoenix once for work. Boring town. The downtown area was like 2 blocks. Talking to most random residents the most common theme was 'It get's real real hot'
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,067
24,396
136
lol, 5 year old necro

and the bot didn't even add anything

lol

Man the OP had really few replies to his thread. I hope he found some other great sources and made the right decision - which seems to have been definitely anywhere besides Phoenix.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,444
5,852
146
lol, 5 year old necro

and the bot didn't even add anything

Hahaha, just noticed that.

lol

Man the OP had really few replies to his thread. I hope he found some other great sources and made the right decision - which seems to have been definitely anywhere besides Phoenix.

Maybe things were different 5 years ago?

Oh, man... How awesome is that?

Wonder where the OP is living now? Probably Vermont. More likely they're still in Lawrence.

Yeah I think he's still in that same area, he had a thread about doing cancer treatment earlier this year or maybe it was last year.