It enables the apoptic mechanism. Now why don't you tell me what it does in human vivo? Oh that's right, you can't. It could work exactly like expected, but being a pre-med you should know that this doesn't always apply. The fact it cannot be patented is as much a blessing as it is a curse.
May I treat you to a DCA cocktail?
That definitely won't make you live forever. In fact I'm pretty sure that would kill you in no time
Actually, it breaks down fats to form acetyl co-a which directly enters the mitochondria, reactivating it and causing the krebs cycle to run. This forms NADH which goes to the ETC which will form superoxides. These are neutralized to form H2O2 which makes up lysosomes which are instrumental in cell mediated death.
And if you didnt read what I said earlier, I said it had serious potential. Not to mention it already is being tested in vivo on rats with sucess.
BTW can you mix me up one of those DCA cocktails?
Not to quote myself or anything but this is how it was useful in rare metabolic disease as a source of energy. The superoxide is a side product, ATP formation is the main product of the ETC cycle.
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
- 111,863
- 31,351
- 146
Originally posted by: funboy42
Why would you think the government would look into it since they are in it with the pharmaceutical companies? If anything they will side with them, try to say there is no cure, and make sure to do everything they can to hide it, get rid of it, or buy the rights to it and make sure it never becomes a reality except for those in power will get the treatment, im sorry cure if this is in fact true.
There is no money to be made in a cure, only treatment to keep the sickness at bay for as long as they can till you die. If you get cured, they cant sell you the drugs anymore which means no profit for them OR the government and THEY cant have that
I may be jaded...but I'm not that jaded. I agree that there is no interest in the pharm companies to research this (getting a drug through phase 3 costs many billions of dollars). While they may be out for profit, they do provide important services. Running themselves into the ground does them, and everyone else, a pretty big disservice.
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 20
- 81
The question then is, will they lower their rates once their costs drastically decline? Or will it be more like, "Costs have gone down by 40%! Let's give each customer $10 off their next bill."
Hopefully this goes somewhere. This could be quite an incredible breakthrough. Got cancer? Hey, no problem! Imagine how that could feel to someone with otherwise terminal cancer - here's your cure. It's $10.
Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Also known as apoptosis without the unnecessary PubMed C&P
Actually, you wrong. I was explaining the mechanism of how it makes the cell able to do the natural process of apoptosis. The process of apoptosis has nothing to do with the krebs cycle, ETC, any of this. The missing ingredient is the H2O2 because it is not made due to the mitochondria being inactivated. Not to mention any biology based individual that would need to c&p this from anywhere is an absolute moron. You learn the basis of this stuff in 9th grade bio.
If you really want me to, I could go into the steps of the krebs cycle where the acoa enters, or maybe how and why the ETC makes superoxides... but that would just be falling into the pis sing contest you want to start.
destrekor
Lifer
- Nov 18, 2005
- 28,799
- 359
- 126
Originally posted by: SirStev0
Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Also known as apoptosis without the unnecessary PubMed C&P
Actually, you wrong. I was explaining the mechanism of how it makes the cell able to do the natural process of apoptosis. The process of apoptosis has nothing to do with the krebs cycle, ETC, any of this. The missing ingredient is the H2O2 because it is not made due to the mitochondria being inactivated. Not to mention any biology based individual that would need to c&p this from anywhere is an absolute moron. You learn the basis of this stuff in 9th grade bio.
If you really want me to, I could go into the steps of the krebs cycle where the acoa enters, or maybe how and why the ETC makes superoxides... but that would just be falling into the pis sing contest you want to start.
not to start anything myself... but I never learned any of that, through any reading I have done through random research of things that I find interesting, nor through Bio class in high school.
Originally posted by: destrekor
Originally posted by: SirStev0
Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Also known as apoptosis without the unnecessary PubMed C&P
Actually, you wrong. I was explaining the mechanism of how it makes the cell able to do the natural process of apoptosis. The process of apoptosis has nothing to do with the krebs cycle, ETC, any of this. The missing ingredient is the H2O2 because it is not made due to the mitochondria being inactivated. Not to mention any biology based individual that would need to c&p this from anywhere is an absolute moron. You learn the basis of this stuff in 9th grade bio.
If you really want me to, I could go into the steps of the krebs cycle where the acoa enters, or maybe how and why the ETC makes superoxides... but that would just be falling into the pis sing contest you want to start.
not to start anything myself... but I never learned any of that, through any reading I have done through random research of things that I find interesting, nor through Bio class in high school.
[Not trying to be a dick or insult your intelligence just think you are thinking about this too deeply] You have never had krebs cycle (citric acid cycle, TCA cycle) or Electric transport in highschool bio or learn that lysosomes contain degrading enzymes and H2O2 that eats a cell when it is programmed to die? Acetyl CoA is an important cofactor to the sytem as well. This is actually very basic biology of the cancer cell that was not previously understood.
If their data proves true, they found at least part of the mechanism that keeps cancer cells alive and growing. This potentially is a major breakthrough.
EDIT: to continue to clearify, they believe the mitochondria becomes inactive somehow (mechanism unknown). The cell then relies solely on glycolysis in the cytoplasm to fuel cell growth. Without the Krebs cycle producing a lot of NADH the ETC does not produce enough H2O2 and other enzymes to sucessfully and naturally kill the cell. The dichloroacetic acid is instruemental in supplying acetyl CoA (one fuel that can enter the TCA (krebs) cycle) that reactives the mito and gives the cell enought NADH energy to be able to destroy itself.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
- 136
I knew it!
No, seriously, DCA won't be that cheap anymore when it gets re-scheduled by the FDA for treatment. That's how this works. Maybe it won't be as expensive as chemo (assuming that it is actually successful), but then there is (as you already noted) the insurance pressures.
The conspiracy theorists' arguments always collapse in the face of the reality that there is NOT a single unified force of evil in this world.
Originally posted by: Vic
I knew it!
No, seriously, DCA won't be that cheap anymore when it gets re-scheduled by the FDA for treatment. That's how this works. Maybe it won't be as expensive as chemo (assuming that it is actually successful), but then there is (as you already noted) the insurance pressures.
The conspiracy theorists' arguments always collapse in the face of the reality that there is NOT a single unified force of evil in this world.
THe best part is it can not be patented. It has been around forever as it is a basic simple chemical. Yes prices will go up as a new very highly demanded need may have arrised, however drug companies will not be able to charge an arm and a leg for it as they will not own the patent. Chemo drugs cost so much not because they are ridiculously expensive to make (that is part of it) or because research is long and expensive (again part of it) but because drug companies spend tons on advertising and patents. Some estimate that drug companies spend nearly 75% of their "research costs" on lobbying and advertising (I dont have the link to the info but it was an actual report in major newspapers, one I am sure I could find if I looked).
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
- 136
Originally posted by: SirStev0
Originally posted by: Vic
I knew it!
No, seriously, DCA won't be that cheap anymore when it gets re-scheduled by the FDA for treatment. That's how this works. Maybe it won't be as expensive as chemo (assuming that it is actually successful), but then there is (as you already noted) the insurance pressures.
The conspiracy theorists' arguments always collapse in the face of the reality that there is NOT a single unified force of evil in this world.
THe best part is it can not be patented. It has been around forever as it is a basic simple chemical. Yes prices will go up as a new very highly demanded need may have arrised, however drug companies will not be able to charge an arm and a leg for it as they will not own the patent. Chemo drugs cost so much not because they are ridiculously expensive to make (that is part of it) or because research is long and expensive (again part of it) but because drug companies spend tons on advertising and patents. Some estimate that drug companies spend nearly 75% of their "research costs" on lobbying and advertising (I dont have the link to the info but it was an actual report in major newspapers, one I am sure I could find if I looked).
That's why I mentioned the FDA re-scheduling. There are many drugs and even basic chemicals out there that cannot be patented, but whose prices are controlled through FDA scheduling as controlled substances. Pure cocaine is barely more complex than DCA. Trust me, if this works, a way WILL be found to make it profitable for those involved.
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: SirStev0
Originally posted by: Vic
I knew it!
No, seriously, DCA won't be that cheap anymore when it gets re-scheduled by the FDA for treatment. That's how this works. Maybe it won't be as expensive as chemo (assuming that it is actually successful), but then there is (as you already noted) the insurance pressures.
The conspiracy theorists' arguments always collapse in the face of the reality that there is NOT a single unified force of evil in this world.
THe best part is it can not be patented. It has been around forever as it is a basic simple chemical. Yes prices will go up as a new very highly demanded need may have arrised, however drug companies will not be able to charge an arm and a leg for it as they will not own the patent. Chemo drugs cost so much not because they are ridiculously expensive to make (that is part of it) or because research is long and expensive (again part of it) but because drug companies spend tons on advertising and patents. Some estimate that drug companies spend nearly 75% of their "research costs" on lobbying and advertising (I dont have the link to the info but it was an actual report in major newspapers, one I am sure I could find if I looked).
That's why I mentioned the FDA re-scheduling. There are many drugs and even basic chemicals out there that cannot be patented, but whose prices are controlled through FDA scheduling as controlled substances. Pure cocaine is barely more complex than DCA. Trust me, if this works, a way WILL be found to make it profitable for those involved.
Oh, I believe the FDA will cause a lot of problems with this... mostly because they are in drug companies pockets. Why do you think the US does no research on diet type therapies or antioxidants. The only major data we have on antioxidants were done by the chinese and the japanese. I have a feeling canada will be all over this though. With their healthcare system the idea is to save money curing the disease, not to make money off the disease. It is the reason why medications are so inexpensive there. The Canadians and the Brits (as well as most of Europe who all have very socialized systems) will be all over this. We may very well lose our medical technical superiority, the only thing that barely makes our system seem to work.
James3shin
Diamond Member
- Apr 5, 2004
- 4,426
- 0
- 76
Drugs like DCA that can kill cancer cells are nothing new. The biggest problem is getting these drugs to their cancer targets without interacting with our normal cells.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 22K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
News NVIDIA and Intel to Develop AI Infrastructure and Personal Computing Products- Started by poke01
- Replies: 411
-
Facebook
Twitter