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Possible coup in Turkey

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MongGrel said:
Your not even worth trying to have a conversation with.

Talk about faux intellectual superiority, you're pretty much the definition of it.
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Show me one news source that says the isn't eroding the democracy. Except for Turkish state media.

How did the theocratic edrogan put it? Ohh yes, this insurgency was a "gift from Allah". Then he dismisses thousands of judges and prosecutors, likely all of the secular ones. Now why would he do that when it was the military?

Hmm...gee...

And your great 40 years of insight has led you to what? The belief that edrogan is a benevolent secularist democratic loving person who will step down when he is asked to and not rig elections so he isnt asked? What kind of stupid are you?
 
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MongGrel said:
Your not even worth trying to have a conversation with. Your basically just a rude shit poster, more or less. I've been well aware of what Edrogan has been up to a long time now.

My point was in mentioning that was I have had a pretty interactive knowledge of what has been going on in Turkey for almost over 30 years, not that is was one interaction.

Talk about faux intellectual superiority, you're pretty much the definition of it.
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Turkey was a model for decades. Why do you think they have fallen to Islamists? I personally don't have a clue as to why. Could it be related to Syria?
 
bshole said:
It is sickening to see the one secular Muslim state fall. There is now not a single Muslim country in the entire fucking world that any rational person could point to as a model of how civilization should be organized. The West and America has a great deal of responsibility for this state of affairs but the Islamic religion and the people of Muslim faith living in those regions have at least an equal if not greater share of the responsibility as well.
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Ahh that good old liberal white guilt, cant be the fault of someone else, always must blame USA.
 
LegendKiller said:
Show me one news source that says the isn't eroding the democracy. Except for Turkish state media.

How did the theocratic edrogan put it? Ohh yes, this insurgency was a "gift from Allah". Then he dismisses thousands of judges and prosecutors, likely all of the secular ones. Now why would he do that when it was the military?

Hmm...gee...

And your great 40 years of insight has led you to what? The belief that edrogan is a benevolent secularist democratic loving person who will step down when he is asked to and not rig elections so he isnt asked? What kind of stupid are you?
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The kind of stupid that knows he is no better than Putin, but keep rambling on there, Mister Intellectual.

🙄
 
MongGrel said:
Your so ignorant in most areas it is truly amazing.

Turkey is still a Parliamentary Democracy at the moment, whether you like who is in power or not. Has been for a long time now, way before Obama was elected.

Our XO in the Marine Squadron I was in in 1982-1984 was of Turkish origin, the CO later went on to take over a major position there on a rotation.

The US has had dealing with Turkey for decades, most posters here seem to be pretty clueless in general on some topics and fire from the hip.

The EU still will recognize it as a Democratic Republic, I agree it is not the most enlightened one in many areas, but even the Saudis are still a Kingdom.
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Turkey in the 80s has nothing to do with Turkey in 2016. Erdogan is a Democratically elected leader but he behaves more like a King than a President in a Democracy.
My only concern is for the ordinary people of Turkey, they dont deserve leaders like Erdogan or Military dictators. There was no need for 161 people to die last night for this.


ps, same for the people that died in Nice France, this hate for western world societies is getting out of control. It seams to me that some people want to start a new crusade again.
 
Was pretty ugly a few years ago when they rolled all that armor to the border and sat there eating popcorn watching ISIS kill Kurds like it was a drive in movie.
 
AtenRa said:
Turkey in the 80s has nothing to do with Turkey in 2016. Erdogan is a Democratically elected leader but he behaves more like a King than a President in a Democracy.
My only concern is for the ordinary people of Turkey, they dont deserve leaders like Erdogan or Military dictators. There was no need for 161 people to die last night for this.


ps, same for the people that died in Nice France, this hate for western world societies is getting out of control. It seams to me that some people want to start a new crusade again.
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It is a crusade against people who don't even want to defend themselves.

As I have said in the Nice thread, Charles Martel would be ashamed of his people.
 
michal1980 said:
Ahh that good old liberal white guilt, cant be the fault of someone else, always must blame USA.
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Well there is school of thought that our unilateral destabilization of Iraq could have led to the what we are seeing in Turkey. I can see the logic in that. That's not to say that the citizens of Turkey don't bear a share of the responsibility. What is your hypothesis as to the source of the debacle in Turkey?
 
JSt0rm said:
Bush wanted to destabilize the region. Mission accomplished.
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From what I'd seen in some places, he had a whole road map for Syria, Lebanon, Iran, etc, after Iraq.

Just Iraq did tip things.

But that should be another thread, and a moot point anyways.
 
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MongGrel said:
From what I'd seen in some places, he had a whole road map for Syria, Lebanon, Iran, etc, after Iraq.

Just Iraq did tip things.

But that should be another thread, and a moot point anyways.
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The hell it should. Many of us can draw a direct fucking line from that policy to this debacle. And I haven't heard a single thing to debunk the thread. Not one. You yourself acknowledge it.
 
bshole said:
Turkey was a model for decades. Why do you think they have fallen to Islamists? I personally don't have a clue as to why. Could it be related to Syria?
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The Green Belt strategy of USA in the 1980ies to surround Soviet Union with Islamist states. Turkey was reshaped with the 1980 coup, the generals giving way to Islamic schools and tolerant towards their orgnizations. 36 years later, here we are.
 
bshole said:
The hell it should. Many of us can draw a direct fucking line from that policy to this debacle. And I haven't heard a single thing to debunk the thread. Not one. You yourself acknowledge it.
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Anyone that isn't aware of that to begin with shouldn't even be posting in the thread 🙂

But I guess that is impossible.
 
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MongGrel said:
Anyone that isn't aware of that to begin with shouldn't even be posting in the thread 🙂

But I guess that is impossible.
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Fair enough. Do you acknowledge that this crisis is quickly rising to the level of existential for Western secularism? I certainly have never witnessed or conceived of this problem getting so bad so quickly.
 
Oric said:
The Green Belt strategy of USA in the 1980ies to surround Soviet Union with Islamist states. Turkey was reshaped with the 1980 coup, the generals giving way to Islamic schools and tolerant towards their orgnizations. 36 years later, here we are.
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Buffer zones were pretty much a thing during the Cold War, Soviet satellite states, North Korea, etc.

I'll leave the expertise on Turkey to Oric, but the proliferation of Islamic schools in general is obvious in many regions as far as a lot of things currently happening in the Middle East.

A lot of the Daesh/ISIS members are teens that have been indoctrinated from birth more or less.
 
My worldview is that the most important priority for the success of the human species is the protection and spread of Western secularism. If it falls, humanity falls. It took Europe centuries to develop a culture that is being destroyed in decades. Mind you, this is a culture that gave modern man pretty much every single meaningful technological and civilizational advancement that it currently has.
 
bshole said:
Fair enough. Do you acknowledge that this crisis is quickly rising to the level of existential for Western secularism? I certainly have never witnessed or conceived of this problem getting so bad so quickly.
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It's a hornets nest that has been there for a long time now, at least as far as Daesh.

Someone poked it with a stick and they have been migrating around now, is about the best analogy I can think of offhand.

It is not all of Islam, just the ones that have been indoctrinated to truly believe the Quran literally from what I can see.

There are not many Christians I know of take the Bible literally word for word. But many of them have not been isolated in a radical religious school non stop being literally brainwashed for decades.

YMMV I suppose.
 
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bshole said:
My worldview is that the most important priority for the success of the human species is the protection and spread of Western secularism. If it falls, humanity falls
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Not in the expense of others, otherwise you become ISIS yourself.


bshole said:
. It took Europe centuries to develop a culture that is being destroyed in decades. Mind you, this is a culture that gave modern man pretty much every single meaningful technological and civilizational advancement that it currently has.
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Western civilization should protect its way of life and its values, but not try to impose them on others.
 
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