Possibilianism

[Moonbeam]

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." --Christopher Hitchens.

I don't think it is responsible to automatically regard every logical possibility with equal degrees of seriousness. I'm giving ""Possibilianism" the benefit of the doubt that there's more substance to it than that, but I'm struggling to see what it is.

I would say it is living without assumptions, awareness that you know practically nothing at all. It is freedom of observation, the ability to perhaps glimpse what you have never seen because you aren't stuck only seeing what you already believe. It is uninhibited creativity and access to the unconscious. It is a capacity to feel what you feel and have sharpened insight.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

I would say it is living without assumptions, awareness that you know practically nothing at all. It is freedom of observation, the ability to perhaps glimpse what you have never seen because you aren't stuck only seeing what you already believe. It is uninhibited creativity and access to the unconscious. It is a capacity to feel what you feel and have sharpened insight.

How would you know?

 

[slayer202]

How would you know?

If you know, you know you know, but only if you know

 

[lxskllr]

I kinda missed moonbeam posting in ATOT, he stays in P&N too much. I like reading the first halfs of his posts, going cross-eyed, and then skipping the rest.

Moonbeam's posts rock. I don't always get it, but it's always an interesting read if you take the time to do so.

 

[Moonbeam]

How would you know?

Because you ask a question does not mean you can understand the answer. In this case, you would obviously not understand the answer because you asked the question. The question is not how I know but can you know also. The price of knowing is everything you believe. How do I know. I paid the price of knowing. You get what you pay for. I paid everything and got it all back in spades. Don't ask stupid questions. Cultivate respect and humility.

The certainty that comes from not knowing much is completely different than the certainty that comes from thinking you know things because when folk know what can't be known you know they are full of shit. But you can know you don't know much if you die to your ego.

 

[slayer202]

If I wasn't at work I'd be lol'ing, ahhhh

 

[Moonbeam]

If you know, you know you know, but only if you know

In a room full of sleeping people, those who are awake know who is awake and those who sleep know nothing. If you wake up, you will know it. Knowing is being awake. There is an important word that implies this truth and it is called Eureka.

 

[gaidensensei]

Moonbeam's posts rock. I don't always get it, but it's always an interesting read if you take the time to do so.

:thumbsup: seconded. Much better quality that some of the redundant posts.

 

[Fear No Evil]

In a room full of sleeping people, those who are awake know who is awake and those who sleep know nothing. If you wake up, you will know it. Knowing is being awake. There is an important word that implies this truth and it is called Eureka.

I once had a turtle named Cocoa who would change the oil on my Harley while listening to Cyndi Lauper. That's not the strange thing though, after he was done changing the oil he would cut the grass with a weed wacker. Completely understandable, until I found out his name was actually Murphy! You can't make this shit up!

 

[SphinxnihpS]

If you know, you know you know, but only if you know

It's a bunch of neo-hippy, take what we want from Eastern religion, enlightened-sounding, non-sense. It says nothing about the OP. It has nothing to do with the OP whatsoever, yet it's defining the OP. Terrance McKenna's Fruitloops Express has made many stops.

 

[slayer202]

In a room full of sleeping people, those who are awake know who is awake and those who sleep know nothing. If you wake up, you will know it. Knowing is being awake. There is an important word that implies this truth and it is called Eureka.

If you're insane, do you know you're insane?

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Because you ask a question does not mean you can understand the answer. In this case, you would obviously not understand the answer because you asked the question. The question is not how I know but can you know also. The price of knowing is everything you believe. How do I know. I paid the price of knowing. You get what you pay for. I paid everything and got it all back in spades. Don't ask stupid questions. Cultivate respect and humility.

The certainty that comes from not knowing much is completely different than the certainty that comes from thinking you know things because when folk know what can't be known you know they are full of shit. But you can know you don't know much if you die to your ego.

This is EXACTLY what I am saying, you're full of shit.

 

[Moonbeam]

If I wasn't at work I'd be lol'ing, ahhhh

Because you were humiliated and laughed at as a child and that made you feel worthless you think you can gain advantage by laughing at me, when in fact all you do is expose how worthless you feel. I already knew that.

But you tell others what it means to have a closed mind to possibilities. As I said, the truth is protected by its immediate unlikelihood. Fools dismiss it out of hand.

 

[slayer202]

I think you answered my question with a resounding "NO"

 

[Moonbeam]

Mulla Nasrudin road his donkey into the center of the town sitting on it backwards. The simpletons of the town LOLed and made fun. But the Mulla, of of the greatest Possibilitarians who ever lived, informed them as follows. Did none of you idiots consider the possibility that it is the donkey that is the wrong way round? And there's more than one way to be a backward donkey.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

I've got circular logicZ...

 

[Moonbeam]

I think you answered my question with a resounding "NO"

In the village of a certain peasant there was this saying:

There are two things in life, dates and experience.

So when he visited a Cairo for the first time, he was given marzipan and proudly announced, this isn't dates so it must be experience.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

I've got stupid parableZ...

 

[actuarial]

If I'm willing to stipulate your definition of atheism (it's not everyone's, but it's yours and others, so ok), then, given that stipulation, what is your take on possibilianism?

Here's my take (based on the fact that I define atheism the same way): possibilianism is a waste of my time.

Look, it's possible that every unopened can of coke in the world is poisoned, so the next coke I drink will kill me. The fact that it's technically possible does not stop me from drinking coke. In a similar fashion the fact that it's possible that a god exists does not impact my life in any way.

Possibilianism is a waste of my time because by definition it cannot provide answers. Even IF God came down, explained everything to us and then flew off, we still have the possibility that it was just some Alien troll and it was all lies. Or that it was a dream, we are still in the dream, and we will soon awake in the world where God didn't come down. Or, Or, Or. It doesn't seem scientific to me in the least, because you should at least consider the possibility that God can bend all of our scientific tests to fudge the results 😉

 

[Locut0s]

So I guess another thing that bothers me with this is that it has been shown that many people feel they require some form of philosophical underpinning to their lives. Something that they can hold onto and strongly assert. For many religion plays this role. For others Atheism plays the role. In this sense Atheism is indeed a theism. Atheists, me included, strongly assert that there IS no god, in the face of there not being any evidence for or against one. While I agree that Possibilianism is in some way a more logical world view it doesn't fill the emotional and philosophical role that atheism and religion does. And I don't agree that it's ANYWHERE near as close/simple minded as religion. Stating that something as complex and fanciful as a supreme Deity DOES exists despite a total lack of evidence is NOT the same as stating that such a thing does NOT exist despite a lack of evidence. Yes for me atheism is a "belief" one that DOES have emotional and philosophical underpinnings (see existentialism!). I don't feel I'm stupid for holding such a "belief" however.

 

[gaidensensei]

Possibilianism is a waste of my time because by definition it cannot provide answers. Even IF God came down, explained everything to us and then flew off, we still have the possibility that it was just some Alien troll and it was all lies. Or that it was a dream, we are still in the dream, and we will soon awake in the world where God didn't come down. Or, Or, Or. It doesn't seem scientific to me in the least, because you should at least consider the possibility that God can bend all of our scientific tests to fudge the results 😉

Basically it can be translated by what you're saying in this cited portion, that the possibility of aliens are false until science proves they are aliens?

In retrospect, to show that a god exists requires a form of science testing to prove it.. but god can also 'modify' the study without our knowledge to throw us off track and show it is not him?

I'm just not understanding, because how can someone assume that aliens exists when there is no scientific proof of one out there yet.

 

[Moonbeam]

The problem, of course, is that when fools hear good advise they become offended because to know you need the advise is to admit to one's foolishness.

That is why, when you go to a web site full of immature young men who are competitively trying to prove themselves to be something other than the children they really are they cynically run down everything and form packs of snarling dogs with other fools. Knowledge protects itself from fools. To a fool, knowledge looks like shit because, well basically, fools have shit for brains. Humble folk, however, don't get upset if they are fools because then can handle possibilities due to humility.

 

[slayer202]

Here's my take (based on the fact that I define atheism the same way): possibilianism is a waste of my time.

Look, it's possible that every unopened can of coke in the world is poisoned, so the next coke I drink will kill me. The fact that it's technically possible does not stop me from drinking coke. In a similar fashion the fact that it's possible that a god exists does not impact my life in any way.

Possibilianism is a waste of my time because by definition it cannot provide answers. Even IF God came down, explained everything to us and then flew off, we still have the possibility that it was just some Alien troll and it was all lies. Or that it was a dream, we are still in the dream, and we will soon awake in the world where God didn't come down. Or, Or, Or. It doesn't seem scientific to me in the least, because you should at least consider the possibility that God can bend all of our scientific tests to fudge the results 😉

Very good point, I didn't even consider that

 

[Locut0s]

The problem, of course, is that when fools hear good advise they become offended because to know you need the advise is to admit to one's foolishness.

That is why, when you go to a web site full of immature young men who are competitively trying to prove themselves to be something other than the children they really are they cynically run down everything and form packs of snarling dogs with other fools. Knowledge protects itself from fools. To a fool, knowledge looks like shit because, well basically, fools have shit for brains. Humble folk, however, don't get upset if they are fools because then can handle possibilities due to humility.

One can have philosophical disagreements without being a fool. One only descends to the level of a fool when it becomes a shouting match. See my post above. I'll give this philosophy it's place and accept the ideas but I still remain a staunch atheist. No shouting from me.

 

[gaidensensei]

So I guess another thing that bothers me with this is that it has been shown that many people feel they require some form of philosophical underpinning to their lives. Something that they can hold onto and strongly assert. For many religion plays this role. For others Atheism plays the role. In this sense Atheism is indeed a theism. Atheists, me included, strongly assert that there IS no god, in the face of there not being any evidence for or against one. While I agree that Possibilianism is in some way a more logical world view it doesn't fill the emotional and philosophical role that atheism and religion does. And I don't agree that it's ANYWHERE near as close/simple minded as religion. Stating that something as complex and fanciful as a supreme Deity DOES exists despite a total lack of evidence is NOT the same as stating that such a thing does NOT exist despite a lack of evidence. Yes for me atheism is a "belief" one that DOES have emotional and philosophical underpinnings (see existentialism!). I don't feel I'm stupid for holding such a "belief" however.

I just had a thought. It kind of tangets a little but pretty much relates.

It's indisputable, that anyone whether athiest, or religiously afflicted who considers that there is a chance of extra-terrestrial life outside of earth is binded in the same concepts that defines possibilianism. There is no sound proof that E.T. exists, but folks who consider it are not denying that they don't.