Pope's First Encyclical

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: conjur
I addressed that in my first post. Too bad the fluffers and trolls chose to ignore that part, though.

Too bad if you had read the OP, you'd know the answer to your question. The pope's thoughts on Marxism were included in the brief blurb included by FNC. Too bad the trolls ignored the OP and just came here to do their thing, huh?

Still, why doesn't the Catholic Church start with coming clean on its own sins?

Still, what does this have to do with the topic at hand? Nothing. Want to start a thread on the shortcomings of the Church? Feel free to do so.

 

[Red Dawn]

Wouldn't this guy just be considered a Caretaker Pope since he's already an old man? As a Catholic who do you think they will elect Pope when this guy kicks the bucket, another old fart or some relatively young guy who will actually have an impact like John Paul was?

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Wouldn't this guy just be considered a Caretaker Pope since he's already an old man? As a Catholic who do you think they will elect Pope when this guy kicks the bucket, another old fart or some relatively young guy who will actually have an impact like John Paul was?

He was probably elected because of two things:
1. His election validates PJP II's work
2. He won't be pope long, since he's old

#1 is important because of how beloved PJP was. #2 is important because anyone who came after him who wasn't a close friend would basically have a hard time making anyone happy. I'm not sure who it will be the next time around. It may be someone younger, but don't expect any sweeping changes in policy, just maybe a change of focus.

 

[MadRat]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Wouldn't this guy just be considered a Caretaker Pope since he's already an old man? As a Catholic who do you think they will elect Pope when this guy kicks the bucket, another old fart or some relatively young guy who will actually have an impact like John Paul was?

He wrote for PJP2 and set alot of the groundwork for his current papacy during that time. Old? Heck, he could last to be 100 years old for all we know. I have a feeling you will see another PJP2 type of young pope in the next election. Several candidates were very qualified for the job but were passed over so as to not leave them in the shadow of PJP2. Being in the shadow of PB16 will not be as humbling. Its time for an African pope. Africa and the Middle East are ripe for an upheaval.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: conjur
"Love is free; it is not practiced as a way of achieving other ends," he wrote.

Except when those ends are attached to 12 year-old boys.



As for the charity, I hope he doesn't expect the funding of that charity to be from tax dollars gathered by the state (as is being done here in the US).

woW....beating a dead horse over and over....
but I like CSMR`s response--- Are you proud to act the fool?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: conjur
And those comments were directed toward the subjects of the thread, not the posters in the threads. See the difference? Probably not. But, go ahead and keep AVOIDING the topic.

As you avoided the topic??

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: raildogg
Why are you posting something about religion here?

Didn't you know that the tolerant and open-minded people here will be offended by the word Pope and Christianity? Why are you doing this to them?

Also, Conjur, you were telling me to not take a thread off topic, but what are you doing?

Again, religion is bad, especially if its christianity. Do not post anything positive about it.

These open minded atheists are truly accepting of everyone.

How did I take this off-topic?

The Pope wants to talk about God is Love and all this other crap when he was one of the key people involved in covering up the Catholic Church's knowledge of priests sexually abusing boys...for decades.

Why doesn't he come clean on that issue? He has no credibility.

Even if things were as you say....
You would find something else to deride the pope or the catholic church about.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Flamewar as usual I see. :roll:






I am not religious by any means, and certainly not catholic, but I thought what he said (from what I gather from the article) was very nice. Instead of preaching on why we shouldn't do this, that, or the other he simply says to watch out for the needy and that charity and support of those less fortunate should be as much a part of the religious life as worshipping the Lord. If only people would listen who knows what sorts of good could happen. Amazing that people are bitching and arguing in this thread, but I should have expected it from P&N.

 

[magomago]

However, he stressed that the church's charity workers must never use their work to proselytize or push a particular political ideology.

But doesn't he do this in his own encyclical? To push for a particular ideology would make me think push either for it, or against it. By dencoucing marxism/communism, he is pushing AGAINST a political ideology. In the encyclical he is pushing against the marxist philosophy of charity, but that is a huge basis of marxism in the first place. To denounce that would be to use his opinion to push for a particular ideology.

Even with that contradiction I still whole heartedly agree

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: magomago
But doesn't he do this in his own encyclical? To push for a particular ideology would make me think push either for it, or against it. By dencoucing marxism/communism, he is pushing AGAINST a political ideology. In the encyclical he is pushing against the marxist philosophy of charity, but that is a huge basis of marxism in the first place. To denounce that would be to use his opinion to push for a particular ideology.

Even with that contradiction I still whole heartedly agree

proselytize:
1 : to induce someone to convert to one's faith
2 : to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause
transitive senses : to recruit or convert especially to a new faith, institution, or cause

I think the point he was making is that one should never use charity as an excuse to try to force your religion on someone. Instead, you should do charity for its own sake. This is one of the places Catholicism differs greatly from fundamentalist sects. Catholics have taken this approach for a long time, but not many here seem to realize that.

 

[Worlocked]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: conjur
How did I take this off-topic?

The Pope wants to talk about God is Love and all this other crap when he was one of the key people involved in covering up the Catholic Church's knowledge of priests sexually abusing boys...for decades.

Why doesn't he come clean on that issue? He has no credibility.

What does this have to do with the topic? Let me help you out: the topic is charity.

I addressed that in my first post. Too bad the fluffers and trolls chose to ignore that part, though.

Still, why doesn't the Catholic Church start with coming clean on its own sins?

...and then you go on to call other people trolls? Come on, you should at least seperate your trolling posts from your troll labeling posts. Sheesh. You at least had that down up until here.

EDIT: and before you go calling me such incredibly witty names as "fluffer", I would just like to note I really don't care much about this particular topic. Religeon is pretty irrelevant as far as I'm concerned, as long as people still have the right to practice whichever silly religeon makes them happy, I'm happy.

 

[Moonbeam]

Pope: "While the Marxist model, in which the state tries to provide for every social need, did respond to the plight of the poor faster than even the church did during the Industrial Revolution, it was a failed experiment because it couldn't respond to every human need, he wrote."

Interesting........ I wonder what he means. I don't see any state that responds to man's inner need for what it is that is perhaps best encapsulated, though far from perfectly by, the word spirituality. Does he mean, then, that every state is or will be a failure? I wonder if this isn't just a whitewashing of Liberation Theology. God may be love, but Christ scattered the coins of the money changers.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: conjur
"Love is free; it is not practiced as a way of achieving other ends," he wrote.

Except when those ends are attached to 12 year-old boys.



As for the charity, I hope he doesn't expect the funding of that charity to be from tax dollars gathered by the state (as is being done here in the US).

Idioctic response.

Not only do Cathloic preists have much lower numbers of sexual preditors than the general population as a percentage (there's always gonna be some bad apples and with people moving away from god it's hard to recuit in these times so standard are sacrificed) The catholic church gives more aid than anyone on the planet. Look in your city any city and you'll find homeless shelters, soup kitchens, drug rehab centers, thrift stores etc all run by generous roman catholic donations. What you done besides bag on them for sensationistic news stories MSM feeds you? I've known many preists in my life and wish I was half the man they were. Sacifice everything including possesions to serve god and thier fellow man.

 

[Apocalypse X]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Pope: "While the Marxist model, in which the state tries to provide for every social need, did respond to the plight of the poor faster than even the church did during the Industrial Revolution, it was a failed experiment because it couldn't respond to every human need, he wrote."

Interesting........ I wonder what he means. I don't see any state that responds to man's inner need for what it is that is perhaps best encapsulated, though far from perfectly by, the word spirituality. Does he mean, then, that every state is or will be a failure? I wonder if this isn't just a whitewashing of Liberation Theology. God may be love, but Christ scattered the coins of the money changers.

has nothing to do with anything being said...
the analogy is totally bogus

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Apocalypse

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Pope: "While the Marxist model, in which the state tries to provide for every social need, did respond to the plight of the poor faster than even the church did during the Industrial Revolution, it was a failed experiment because it couldn't respond to every human need, he wrote."

Interesting........ I wonder what he means. I don't see any state that responds to man's inner need for what it is that is perhaps best encapsulated, though far from perfectly by, the word spirituality. Does he mean, then, that every state is or will be a failure? I wonder if this isn't just a whitewashing of Liberation Theology. God may be love, but Christ scattered the coins of the money changers.

has nothing to do with anything being said...
the analogy is totally bogus

My Dear Sir........what on earth would predispose me to assume that you, who have evinced no reasoning capacity whatsoever before me here on this forum, should now suddenly command my respect for the possession of a reading comprehension and veracity over and above my own well known powers of apperception and perspicacity, that is to say, at least well known to me? Furthermore, if there is no reason for me to trust in the powers of your comprehension as to what the Pope may have meant, why would I assume that you, further, could judge the applicability of my analogy? How do we not know in short that my analogy has everything to do with everything and you are not full of sh!t?

Naturally I don't resent your comment any more than an elephant resents a gnat, but I would certainly pay attention if you, instead, had presented an augmented case.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: conjur
"Love is free; it is not practiced as a way of achieving other ends," he wrote.

Except when those ends are attached to 12 year-old boys.



As for the charity, I hope he doesn't expect the funding of that charity to be from tax dollars gathered by the state (as is being done here in the US).

Idioctic response.

Not only do Cathloic preists have much lower numbers of sexual preditors than the general population as a percentage (there's always gonna be some bad apples and with people moving away from god it's hard to recuit in these times so standard are sacrificed) The catholic church gives more aid than anyone on the planet. Look in your city any city and you'll find homeless shelters, soup kitchens, drug rehab centers, thrift stores etc all run by generous roman catholic donations. What you done besides bag on them for sensationistic news stories MSM feeds you? I've known many preists in my life and wish I was half the man they were. Sacifice everything including possesions to serve god and thier fellow man.

Most of the shelters and such here aren't run by Catholic donations. Although, it's understandable given the huge settlement forked over the local archdiocese (but they didn't file for bankruptcy as others have done)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cases_of_c...ual_abuse_in_the_Roman_Catholic_Church
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/07/20/loc_loc2rocath.html

As a matter of fact, one of the priests that presided at the parish where I attended school was involved. I'd always thought something was odd with the way he was quickly removed and moved to a smaller parish beyond the outskirts of the metro area. Now I know why.

As for the other part of my post (which everyone keeps ignoring), I wonder if the Pope will have a word with our President that funding for religious charities shouldn't be partially dependent upon the state.