Pope's Astronomer: Creationism/Intelligent Design are "Bad Theology"

[Cerpin Taxt]

NONRANDOM (adjective)


Meaning:
Not random
Similar:
orderly; systematic (not haphazard)
purposive (having or showing or acting with a purpose or design)
Antonym:
random (lacking any definite plan or order or purpose; governed by or depending on chance)

That doesn't refute his statement. Quite literally, we are not certain that ANYTHING is "truly random" or even what "truly random" can mean. It's more or less a red herring when discussing natural events. Even in quantum mechanics, when we can't determine a position or velocity of a particle, we can still decide with incredible accuracy what the probabilities are in every circumstance. Is that random? What level of predictability is "random" and what is not? Saying that everything that is nonrandom must be designed is silly, however, and scientifically meaningless anyway.

 

[zinfamous]

Um, no. Where would you get that idea?


You appear to know a little less than jack shit about the subject. The Vatican's astronomy program is actually pretty well-renowned.

The man who originally formulated the BBT was a practicing Catholic Priest, no less.

 

[zinfamous]

lol srsly?

of course, dude. Just talk to any Southern baptist or Lutheran and ask them what they think about Catholics.

They sure as shit don't think Catholics are going to heaven, for one thing.

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

That doesn't refute his statement. Quite literally, we are not certain that ANYTHING is "truly random" or even what "truly random" can mean. It's more or less a red herring when discussing natural events. Even in quantum mechanics, when we can't determine a position or velocity of a particle, we can still decide with incredible accuracy what the probabilities are in every circumstance. Is that random? What level of predictability is "random" and what is not? Saying that everything that is nonrandom must be designed is silly, however, and scientifically meaningless anyway.

Okay, of course you can put probabilities around random or chance events. There's a whole branch of mathematics called statistics that deals with this. What does that have to do with the Cardinal's statement?

I'm having a hard time figuring out what you believe regarding origins. If you could lay out your views that would be helpful to the discussion.

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

of course, dude. Just talk to any Southern baptist or Lutheran and ask them what they think about Catholics.

They sure as shit don't think Catholics are going to heaven, for one thing.

Anyone who believes that is ignorant of the Christian message of salvation.

9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."[e] 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."[f]

 

[sandorski]

Anyone who believes that is ignorant of the Christian message of salvation.

9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."[e] 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."[f]

Tell that to Christians.

 

[sandorski]

Okay, of course you can put probabilities around random or chance events. What does that have to do with the Cardinal's statement?

I'm having a hard time figuring out what you believe regarding origins. If you could lay out your views that would be helpful to the discussion.

Talk Origins

 

[bfdd]

This is pretty fucking cool man.

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

Let's define what we mean by random in the context of origins.

Here's my definition:

Random = natural unguided forces or processes.

 

[DangerAardvark]

The whole article is caca.....
For example it says -- The discovery of aliens would raise huge theological problems for the Roman Catholic church...


The fact is the discovery of Aliens would negate almost all the worlds religions........
For one reason -- almost all of them believe that Jesus Christ died for all mankind.....here on earth...not aliens from the cosmos...lolol

But that's what theologians do. They pretty much just "interpret" their holy texts say what they want them to say. They'll just find some vague passage somewhere and go "see, we knew all along."

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Let's define what we mean by random in the context of origins.

Here's my definition:

Random = natural unguided forces or processes.

Well then NOTHING is random since nothing in this universe is or has ever been unguided.

You might say that a random raindrop landing on your face is actually MORE random than you even existing because the chance for those specific water molecules that have been on earth for such a long time, to rise and fall millions and millions of times to end up on your face is not something that is even possible according to ID math.

And yet, it's not unguided, not in the least, it follows the natural laws set up for it to do what water molecules do.

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

Well then NOTHING is random since nothing in this universe is or has ever been unguided.

Your entitled to you opinion, but that's all it is, an opinion.

When I look at the scientific evidence, it favors special creation.

 

[Jeff7]

Well thank goodness the aliens would have souls.

It's smart distancing themselves from ID applied in such a tangible fashion. Saying that God created the universe and the laws of nature is a much more defensible position. The things say by the Pope's astronomer is often pleasantly surprising. It's good seeing such flexibility and evolution in religion.

Howso? ID was just a thinly-veiled attempt to get Creationism taught in schools by removing all explicit references to "God" and "Bible."

 

[sandorski]

Your entitled to you opinion, but that's all it is, an opinion.

When I look at the scientific evidence, it favors special creation.

Your entitled to you opinion, but that's all it is, an opinion.

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

The problem for you atheists is you rule out non-naturalistic causes a priori. I don't make such a prejudgement. I just look at the evidence and see what what model fits best.

 

[sandorski]

The problem for you atheists is you rule out non-naturalistic causes a priori. I don't make such a prejudgement. I just look at the evidence and see what what model fits best.

The problem for you is that you ASSuME God did it and dismiss all evidence to the contrary.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Your entitled to you opinion, but that's all it is, an opinion.

When I look at the scientific evidence, it favors special creation.

No, son, everything in this universe is restricted by the laws of this universe.

Unless you are trying to tell me that you don't believe in reality, if you don't, then ok, this discussion is over.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

The problem for you atheists is you rule out non-naturalistic causes a priori. I don't make such a prejudgement. I just look at the evidence and see what what model fits best.

No, you have the truth and you will dismiss all evidence to the contrary or try to cram them into a place where they do not fit.

Then you will call yourself a "scientist" for doing so but all you are is a useless magician who exposes all his tricks in front of everyone.

No one buys it.

 

[Gibsons]

of course, dude. Just talk to any Southern baptist or Lutheran and ask them what they think about Catholics.

They sure as shit don't think Catholics are going to heaven, for one thing.

If the Southern Baptists are right, heaven's going to be a sparsely populated place.

 

[Gibsons]

Your entitled to you opinion, but that's all it is, an opinion.

When I look at the scientific evidence, it favors special creation.

How can any evidence favor or disfavor special creation?

 

[DangerAardvark]

If the Southern Baptists are right, heaven's going to be a sparsely populated place.

According to JW's there's only room for 144,000 people in Heaven. So book early.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Okay, of course you can put probabilities around random or chance events. There's a whole branch of mathematics called statistics that deals with this. What does that have to do with the Cardinal's statement?

The point is that evolution is not a "random" process. It isn't chance that less fit organisms are selected out of a population.

I'm having a hard time figuring out what you believe regarding origins. If you could lay out your views that would be helpful to the discussion.

What origins?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Far more interesting.

What about this article from 2009?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article5859797.ece

No acknowledgement of this article, Phinneas? In it, a professor of Philosophy of Science from the Santa Croce Pontifical University in Rome is quoted saying, "recent declarations by Popes have asserted the full accordance of Catholic doctrine and evolutionary biology."

Is he wrong? Certainly, he is no layman of science, in contrast to the Cardinal

*Crickets chirping*

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

*Crickets chirping*

I just planted a dozen Bridal Wreath and I'm off to play golf. I do have other things to do.

I'm not Catholic and of course, so they say/believe whatever they please. I'm not bound to agree or disagree.

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

How can any evidence favor or disfavor special creation?

It's all been hashed and reshashed in previous threads.