Pope's Astronomer: Creationism/Intelligent Design are "Bad Theology"

[Cerpin Taxt]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...uy-Consolmagno-Aliens-souls-living-stars.html

Intelligent aliens may be living among the stars and are likely to have souls, a senior Vatican scientist said today.
The Pope’s Astronomer, Guy Consolmagno said he would be happy to 'baptise an alien' – but admitted that the chances of communicating with life outside the Earth was low.
The pronouncement raises the tantalising possibility that the Vatican may one day send missionaries into space to convert aliens to Christianity.
Speaking at the British Science Festival, Dr Consolmangno also dismissed Creationism and claimed that the revival of 'intelligent design’ – the controversial theory that only God can explain gaps in the theory of evolution – was 'bad theology’.
Dr Consolmango is one of a team of 12 astronomers working for the Vatican, said the Catholic Church had been supporting and funding science for centuries.
A self-confessed science fiction fan, he said he was “comfortable’ with the idea of alien life.
Asked if he would baptise an alien, he replied “Only if they asked.’

He added: “I’d be delighted if we found life elsewhere and delighted if we found intelligent life elsewhere.
“But the odds of us finding it, of it being intelligent and us being able to communicate with it - when you add them up it’s probably not a practical question.
“God is bigger than just humanity. God is also the god of angels.”
In the middle ages, the definition of a soul was to have intelligence, free will, freedom to love and freedom to make decisions, he said.
Those characteristics may not be unique to humans.

'Any entity – no matter how many tentacles it has has a soul,’ he added.
In practice, machines were unlikely to be smart or human-enough to have souls.
Dr Consolmango, 57, the curator of the Pope's meteorite collection, is a trained astronomer and planetary scientist at the Vatican’s observatory.
He dismissed 'Intelligent Design' - a form of Creationism which claims that Darwin's theory of evolution cannot explain the complexity of life - was 'bad theology'.
'The word has been hijacked by a narrow group of Creationist fundamentalists in America to mean something it didn’t originally mean at all. It’s another form of the God of the gaps,’ he said.
'It’s bad theology in that it turns God once again into the pagan god of thunder and lightning.’
The phrase 'Intelligent Design' was centuries old and described the idea that God could be discovered in the laws of space and time and the existence of human reason.

The Vatican was 'very aware' of what was going on in the world of science, he added.
The Pontifical Academy of Science, of which Stephen Hawking is a member, kept the senior cardinals and the Pope up-to-date with the latest scientific developments, he said.
The discovery of aliens would raise huge theological problems for the Roman Catholic church that would make the debate over women priests, clerical abstinence and contraception pale into insignificance.
Contact with aliens would also raise complex questions for theologians about whether extra terrestrials would be spared the stain of original sin and whether they - like humans - were 'made in God's image'.
Dr Consolmagno said the Catholic Church was keen to promote science.
However, he admitted that the church had got it 'spectacularly wrong' over its treatment of the 17th century astronomer Galileo Galilei whose observations with telescopes confirmed that the Earth went around the sun - and not the other way around.
Galileo was accused of heresy in 1633 and forced to publicly recant his theories. He lived the rest of his life under house arrest in his Tuscan villa.
In 1992 Pope John Paul said the church's denunciation of Galileo's work had been a tragic error.
Two years ago Pope Benedict XVI paid tribute to the astronomer at an event marking the 400th anniversary of Galileo's earliest observations. Pope Benedict had been criticised in the past for appearing to condone the heresy verdict against Galileo.

 

[Gibson486]

so, you essentially made troll bait. congrats. you want a cookie?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

so, you essentially made troll bait. congrats. you want a cookie?

I think this is actually a significant declaration and it's particularly relevant to a number of difficult discussions that happened here recently.

If you don't like talking about it, STFU and GTFO.

 

[rivan]

so, you essentially made troll bait. congrats. you want a cookie?

Am I missing something and the story isn't legit?

I was going to post about the Pope comparing atheists to Nazis yesterday, and how it would be the biggest real life application of Godwin's law I knew of, but thought that might not be a good idea.

 

[yhelothar]

Quite smart on the Pope's part to acknowledge science or it won't be long before Christianity dwindles in its reputation. You could only hold out from the cold hard facts for so long before the faith begins to diminish.

 

[Gibson486]

I think this is actually a significant declaration and it's particularly relevant to a number of difficult discussions that happened here recently.

If you don't like talking about it, STFU and GTFO.

I never said it wasn't. But you know that this forum is not capable of having a civilized discussion when religion is brought up. It will not take long for this thread to turn to a thread about black and white and good vs evil. Just shut it down while you can.

 

[sandorski]

Step in the right direction, although they've basically held these positions before(specifically about Evolution). Now if they could stop Molesting little Boys....

 

[dighn]

It's smart distancing themselves from ID applied in such a tangible fashion. Saying that God created the universe and the laws of nature is a much more defensible position. The things say by the Pope's astronomer is often pleasantly surprising. It's good seeing such flexibility and evolution in religion.

 

[Kev]

I think this is actually a significant declaration and it's particularly relevant to a number of difficult discussions that happened here recently.

If you don't like talking about it, STFU and GTFO.

It's not really surprising coming from the catholic church. I went to catholic grade school and high school and they taught evolution and never even mentioned stupidass creationism.

It's the fundamental sects of christianity that believe in that horseshit.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

I never said it wasn't. But you know that this forum is not capable of having a civilized discussion when religion is brought up.

Is this your first day on ATOT? Since when is the prerequisite to posting a thread the certainty that no "uncivilized" discussion might develop as a consequence? Do you realize how silly that sounds?

It will not take long for this thread to turn to a thread about black and white and good vs evil. Just shut it down while you can.

I suggest you take my original advice and GTFO if it offends your fragile sensibilities so much.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

The Catholic Church is almost single-handedly responsible for science as we know it. Where do people get the idea that Catholics are unscientific? It's always been the splitsville reformists who are batshit insane and insist on the literal truth of the Bible.

On a side not, I'm going to smite some Phillistines!

 

[The Boston Dangler]

so, that's someone on the staff saying this, and not the church itself, right?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

so, that's someone on the staff saying this, and not the church itself, right?

That may be a valid distinction, I do not know the finer details regarding who qualifies to speak "for the church." The man is a "Vatican scientist," per the article, and "the Pope's astronomer."

 

[sandorski]

The Catholic Church is almost single-handedly responsible for science as we know it. Where do people get the idea that Catholics are unscientific? It's always been the splitsville reformists who are batshit insane and insist on the literal truth of the Bible.

On a side not, I'm going to smite some Phillistines!

?? :\ Only as a catalyst and that's being generous.

 

[Gibson486]

Is this your first day on ATOT? Since when is the prerequisite to posting a thread the certainty that no "uncivilized" discussion might develop as a consequence? Do you realize how silly that sounds?


I suggest you take my original advice and GTFO if it offends your fragile sensibilities so much.

Dude, nothing to get offended about. Just saying.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I think this is actually a significant declaration and it's particularly relevant to a number of difficult discussions that happened here recently.

If you don't like talking about it, STFU and GTFO.

Are you onr of those people who dispise the Catholic church due to all the pedophile cases?
Yet at the same time when it supports your view point you embrace what somebody in the catholic Church has to say???

Why talk about it?
This guy is somebody of no importance when it comes to astranomy, the big bang theory, etc..etc...

Good troll post though....

 

[SphinxnihpS]

?? :\ Only as a catalyst and that's being generous.

Money is the best catalyst (except for oxygen).

 

[JEDIYoda]

The whole article is caca.....
For example it says -- The discovery of aliens would raise huge theological problems for the Roman Catholic church...


The fact is the discovery of Aliens would negate almost all the worlds religions........
For one reason -- almost all of them believe that Jesus Christ died for all mankind.....here on earth...not aliens from the cosmos...lolol

 

[TehMac]

I agree with the pope's astronomer.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Dude, nothing to get offended about. Just saying.

You respond to the thread with no material commentary on the atricle's subject matter, but instead to make patronizing comments to me, the OP, but it's "nothing to get offended about"?? Fuck off. It rather seems that EVERYBODY ELSE BUT YOU has made nothing but civilized comments, and the only "uncivilized discussion" happening is the one YOU provoked by being a patronizing asshole. Seriously, GTFO, we're doing just fine here without you.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Are you onr of those people who dispise the Catholic church due to all the pedophile cases?

Um, no. Where would you get that idea?

Yet at the same time when it supports your view point you embrace what somebody in the catholic Church has to say???

Why talk about it?
This guy is somebody of no importance when it comes to astranomy, the big bang theory, etc..etc...

Good troll post though....

You appear to know a little less than jack shit about the subject. The Vatican's astronomy program is actually pretty well-renowned.

 

[Gibson486]

You respond to the thread with no material commentary on the atricle's subject matter, but instead to make patronizing comments to me, the OP, but it's "nothing to get offended about"?? Fuck off. It rather seems that EVERYBODY ELSE BUT YOU has made nothing but civilized comments, and the only "uncivilized discussion" happening is the one YOU provoked by being a patronizing asshole. Seriously, GTFO, we're doing just fine here without you.

you get offended way to easily.

 

[Homerboy]

religious thread + ATOT = troll

What's the saying? "Everyone knows this!"?

 

[zinfamous]

as if something coming from the vatican matters in the least bit to the typical American protestant. hell, the IDers probably put Catholics right next to Muslim terrorists.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

as if something coming from the vatican matters in the least bit to the typical American protestant. hell, the IDers probably put Catholics right next to Muslim terrorists.

That is almost certainly true. Just take a look at the library of tracts put together by Jack Chick on the subject of Catholicism.

If I'm not mistaken, however, our favorite ID'er on this forum is Catholic. :sneaky: