Pope question. No offense intended.

[Gaard]

He was on the news today and he looked old. And I mean old as in very frail and feeble looking old. What exactly is his job/purpose? The fact that he's almost to the point of not being able to help himself doesn't effect this? Yes, I'm ignorant here so would someone please explain this to me. Is he pope until he dies? Is he just supposed to be the most intelligent on religious matters?

It's just that he looked so old. I can't imagine my grandpa traveling the world at his age. The fact that I'm not religious probably keeps me from understanding.

 

[MoMeanMugs]

He looks old because he is old. Call Captain Obvious to the rescue! Get a clue.

 

[merlocka]

Dude, it's his job to kick Hulk Hogan's a$$ and take the WTF belt back.

 

[Swanny]

His is the leader of the Catholic church. He is sort of like the president and the Vatican Council is like Congress (Edit: actually more like the cabinet).

And yes, he looks old because he is old.

 

[Gaard]

I guess I wasn't expressing my thoughts well enough. Yes, I know he's old. I guess what I really want to know is why does he do what he does when he's so old and feeble? And this is ok with the people?

And MoMeanMugs - are you always such an asshole?

 

[Jzero]

<< I guess I wasn't expressing my thoughts well enough. Yes, I know he's old. I guess what I really want to know is why does he do what he does when he's so old and feeble? And this is ok with the people? >>


I recall reading recently that there really isn't any way for the pope to step down from his position. For the past 1000 or so years, the Pope has served for life. It's just that in that past, the Pope hasn't lived to his mid-80s, so he's breaking new ground. He's been doing it for 30-40 years now, and it's presumably something he really loves to do so he'll do it until his dying day...or maybe he just feels too obligated to succumb to his body's weakness.

 

[Moonbeam]

And here I thought the question was going to be, "Is the Pope Catholic?"

 

[b0mbrman]

He's the link between God and people...see also Bishop (or Archbishop) of Rome (or "the Roman province), vicar of Christ, supreme pontiff of the Catholic church, patriarch of the West, successor to Saint Peter

<==-- Once taught Sunday school but that was years back

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

<< And here I thought the question was going to be, "Is the Pope Catholic?" >>




Well? <waiting for answer>

 

[jadinolf]

<< He looks old because he is old. Call Captain Obvious to the rescue! Get a clue. >>



Actually the reason he looks that bad is because he is in very poor health.

I know plenty of 80 year olds who can run circles around younger guys. He just can't.

 

[Geekbabe]

<< And here I thought the question was going to be, "Is the Pope Catholic?" >>



LOL, the bear just shat all over my keyboard !!!!

 

[Gaard]

<< Actually the reason he looks that bad is because he is in very poor health.

I know plenty of 80 year olds who can run circles around younger guys. He just can't. >>


I know what you mean. Up until he died, my dad lived on the golf course...he was 81.




<< He's the link between God and people...see also Bishop (or Archbishop) of Rome (or "the Roman province), vicar of Christ, supreme pontiff of the Catholic church, patriarch of the West, successor to Saint Peter >>


Is he elected to be the link? Or does he somehow inherit the position...like the VP does if the P gets assasinated. And the fact that he's in such poor health doesn't affect this linkage? This is actually pretty interesting for me.

 

[Moonbeam]

Hay, I used to think I knew, but recent data casts doubt on my long held belief even that bears go in the woods. I no longer trust myself to say.

I do rather hold the perhaps prejudiced view that the Pope, as an ultra conservative in a church that seems to alternate between ultra conservative and liberal conservative popes, views himself as the only thng standing between his church and the devil taking it over.

 

[Cyberian]

<< Is he elected to be the link? Or does he somehow inherit the position...like the VP does if the P gets assasinated. And the fact that he's in such poor health doesn't affect this linkage? This is actually pretty interesting for me. >>

He is elected by the College of Cardinals and serves until he dies. According to the Catholic Church there has been an unbroken line of Popes since Jesus "appointed" St Peter.

Its really kind of hard for me to explain in a couple of sentences.
Maybe Optimus will stop by!!

 

[Novgrod]

The pope began as the archbishop of rome, who was, supposedly, first peter. Among other notable events in Peter's life, he denied following Christ three times, and Jesus told him "You are Peter, and on you i found my church." Peter in Greek--i think--is Rock, and so it makes sense. On this relatively thin line of scripture, the Pope became the most important bishop. He is elected by the college of cardinals. The current pope was Karol Wotijwa (sp) from Poland before he was John Paul II. The history of popes is rather screwy. It wasn't until the thirteenth century (if memory serves) that the pope became infallible; that is, when he makes a statement from the chair of saint peter about something religious (the exact specifications elude me) he cannot be wrong. Popes have only made two infallible statements to date: that Mary was immaculately conceived (not Jesus) and that Mary was assumed into heaven. There's no scriputral basis for either. A famous pope (Caesare Borgia) had a kid with his daughter while pope. Another, we'll call him Innocent or Urban, exumed the body of his predecessor to put him on trial. He cut off the past pope's hand and buried him again. At one point there were three popes at the same time.

There isn't a convenient way for the pope to step down. Right now (post Vatican-II) he's more of a figurehead than anything, though his power is still significant. This current pope said he didn't want priests to marry, nor did he want women to become priests, and so neither is the case. He could still say something infallible, but to put it mildly, there's strong incentive that he not do so. He's made a number of apologies, among which were being sorry that, erm, I think Paul XXIII (or so) wasn't quick to condemn the holocaust, and he was sorry for the crusades, etc. The pope has been sorry for a whole lot, but he hasn't done much to change it

If you have any specific questions, I'll recommend some books if i can't answer them myself.

 

[Elita1]

Though he is not in the peak of health, together with the Cardinals, he is still able to lead the church. I guess his greatest difficulty is the getting around; all that travel must wear him down. But in the matter of making decisions of faith, i. e. making official statements concerning faith and morals(speaking ex cathedra), he and the cardinals receive the guidance and protection of the Holy Spirit.

What I'm not sure of is what happens when a pope becomes incapacitated completely...That I will have to find out for you.
Optimus may drop by later on and shed a bit more light on the subject as well

cheers!

 

[Gaard]

Thanks peeps.
So this College of Cardinals elects the pope. Was the pope a member of this college (what is this college anyways?) before he was pope? And the reasons why a pope gets chosen to be a pope?

Novgrod - maybe you better recommend me that book.

 

[Elita1]

Novgrod,

I don't have much time, but some of your information is mistaken/misleading.
The Pope, from the time of Peter, has always been considered infallible, but ONLY when making a definitive statement concerning faith and morals. Yes, Immaculate conception and assumption were officially defined; but they aren't the only statements.
Infallibility wasn't declared or invented in the thirteenth century; I'll have to re-check my sources but it was just reiterated at one of the councils, if I am correct, not invented. I will look it up for ya.(I'm guessing Optimus is going to write an elaborating epistle real soon too)

Concerning any scandals of some of the popes throughout history, one must remember that they are after all, only human, even if divinely appointed. (I am not excusing their bad actions, btw) However, no Pope, ever, no matter what blunders he has committed, has EVER made a mistake concerning doctrine.

I got to go, but of course, if anyone has any questions, PM me or Optimus for any nitty-gritty details.

Take care!

 

[fatalbert]

<< Peter in Greek--i think--is Rock
>>



actually,

in Rock in greek is pronounced Lithnos

 

[Squisher]

Remember in '81 he took a shot to the gut.



Always takes a little out of you.

 

[b0mbrman]

<<

<< Peter in Greek--i think--is Rock
>>



actually,

in Rock in greek is pronounced Lithnos >>


Rock in Latin is Petra...

 

[BettyBoop]

Just because the Pope is old and ill does not mean that his intellectual and spiritual faculties are impaired in any way. I know a Rabbi who is over ninety years of age. He is in a wheelchair and he has to inhale supplemental oxygen, but he is incredibly shrewd and quick witted, and is highly regarded by everyone who has heard him speak.

The declining state of the body does not necessarily indicate the condition of the mind or the soul.

 

[Novgrod]

Elita1, unless I'm fantastically mistaken (and it wouldn't be the first time) there wasn't a doctrine of infallibility until the 13th or 14th century.

There wasn't even a pope, per say, at the time of Peter. The existence of the third or fourth pope isn't confirmed at all but for a reference to a person in the church in scripture.

I didn't mean to come down on the office too harshly, but the pope is human, and he had an insane amount of power, and he didn't wield it to all good. The condemnation of Gallileo comes to mind.

If you want a good book about the Renaissance popes and the world surrounding them, I recommend _A World Lit Only by Fire_. If you want more detail, I'll be happy to provide it.