Pope claims condoms could make African Aids crisis worse

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: TallBill
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl...pe-africa-condoms-aids

The Pope today reignited the controversy over the Catholic church's stance on condom use as he made his first trip to Africa.

The pontiff said condoms were not the answer to the continent's fight against HIV and Aids and could make the problem worse.

Benedict XVI made his comments as he flew to Cameroon for the first leg of a six-day trip that will also see him travelling to Angola.

The timing of his remarks outraged health agencies trying to halt the spread of HIV and Aids in sub-Saharan Africa, where an estimated 22 million people are infected.

The Roman Catholic church encourages sexual abstinence and fidelity to prevent the disease from spreading, but it is a policy that has divided some clergy working with Aids patients.

The pontiff, speaking to journalists on his flight, said the condition was "a tragedy that cannot be overcome by money alone, that cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which even aggravates the problems".

Rebecca Hodes, of the Treatment Action Campaign in South Africa, said that if the Pope was serious about preventing new HIV infections he would focus on promoting wider access to condoms and spreading information about how best to use them.

Hodes, the director of policy, communication and research for the campaign group, added: "Instead, his opposition to condoms conveys that religious dogma is more important to him than the lives of Africans."

It is not the first time the Pope has made public remarks on the HIV/Aids outbreak ravaging the continent.

Shortly after becoming pontiff in 2005, he told senior Catholic clergy from Africa that, while the disease was a "cruel epidemic", it could not be cured through using condoms.

Addressing bishops from South Africa, Botswana, Swaziland, Namibia and Lesotho who had travelled to the Vatican for papal audience, he said: "The traditional teaching of the church has proven to be the only failsafe way to prevent the spread of HIV/Aids."

He also warned them that African life was under threat from a number of factors, including condoms.

"It is of great concern that the fabric of African life, its very source of hope and stability, is threatened by divorce, abortion, prostitution, human trafficking and a contraception mentality," he added.

More than two-thirds ? 67% ? of the global total of 32.9 million people with HIV live in sub-Saharan Africa.

Three-quarters of all Aids deaths in 2007 happened there.

Africa is the fastest-growing region for the Roman Catholic church, which competes with Islam and evangelical churches.

The Pope also said today that he intended to make an appeal for "international solidarity" for Africa in the face of the global economic downturn.

He said that, while the church did not propose specific economic solutions, it could give "spiritual and moral" suggestions.

Describing the current crisis as the consequence of "a deficit of ethics in economic structures", he added: "It is here that the church can make a contribution."

Benedict dismissed claims that he was facing increasing opposition and isolation within the church, particularly after an outreach to ultra-conservatives led to him lifting the excommunication of a Holocaust-denying bishop.

"The myth of my solitude makes me laugh," he said, adding that he could count on the network of friends and aides he saw every day.

In a letter to Catholic bishops, released last week, he made an unusual public acknowledgment of Vatican mistakes over the rehabilitation of Bishop Richard Williamson.

While acknowledging that errors had been made in handling the affair, Benedict said he was saddened that he was criticised "with open hostility" even by those who "should have known better".

Sorry Mr. Pope, but people are gonna have sex. Might as well use condoms.

Yes people are going to have sex.

Condoms encourage them to have sex.

If someone has AIDS, they should not have sex, even with a condom. It's not worth putting your partner at risk.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Yes people are going to have sex.

Condoms encourage them to have sex.

:roll:

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Originally posted by: Atreus21
Yes people are going to have sex.

Condoms encourage them to have sex.

If someone has AIDS, they should not have sex, even with a condom. It's not worth putting your partner at risk.

Condoms don't encourage folks to have sex, sex encourages folks to have sex. The Pope's position is logically indefensible, don't try.

 

[Nightfall]

Originally posted by: Possessed Freak
I prefer the way the King of Swaziland is handling it.

The great king

The King has faced a lot of criticism recently for his mishandling of the HIV/AIDS crisis that has devastated much of Swaziland. In the 2000 he announced in a parliamentary debate that all HIV+ people should be "sterilized and branded". In 2001, the King's umcwasho response to the health crisis produced unanticipated consequences ? including an increase in prostitution, decline in marriage and an increase in abortions and infanticide.

Sounds like fun.

 

[Jaskalas]

In the face of abstinence, promiscuity does make the spread of disease worse. However, it would be grossly ignorant to think these people would favor abstinence, thus a condom is the best protection they have. That the pope would regard condoms as a problem is ridiculous and only serves to marginalize the faith.

In short, he undermines himself.

 

[NeoV]

Catholic Church - I'd like you to meet someone - the 20th and 21st century.

So clueless it's appalling, no wonder the ranks of church-goers are plunging.

Diocese here in Cleveland this week just shut down 30-40 churches, and merged a ton of others together.

 

[KMFJD]

The pope is an idiot, with millions of head in the sand followers...

 

[OrByte]

Thank goodness we have the Catholic church to lead us into the 21st century.

haaaaaaleeeeeeelllooooouuuuuuuyaaaaaahhhhhhh

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

Originally posted by: Atreus21
Yes people are going to have sex.

Condoms encourage them to have sex.

If someone has AIDS, they should not have sex, even with a condom. It's not worth putting your partner at risk.

Condoms don't encourage folks to have sex, sex encourages folks to have sex. The Pope's position is logically indefensible, don't try.

lol! unless those condoms are magical! If you wag a condom in front of an african he/she will want to jump in bed with you stat!! its magic!

 

[ayabe]

Yeah the Catholic church does seem to be on the downward slope, and those who still consider themselves catholic at least in this country, don't really care all that much about what the Pope has to say, especially regarding contraception.

That bus left the station a long time ago.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

Originally posted by: Atreus21
Yes people are going to have sex.

Condoms encourage them to have sex.

If someone has AIDS, they should not have sex, even with a condom. It's not worth putting your partner at risk.

Condoms don't encourage folks to have sex, sex encourages folks to have sex. The Pope's position is logically indefensible, don't try.

The illusion that condoms prevent STD's 100% of the time indicates that sick people will engage in sex using a condom, when they otherwise would not have.

That's simply logical.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

Originally posted by: Atreus21
Yes people are going to have sex.

Condoms encourage them to have sex.

If someone has AIDS, they should not have sex, even with a condom. It's not worth putting your partner at risk.

Condoms don't encourage folks to have sex, sex encourages folks to have sex. The Pope's position is logically indefensible, don't try.

The illusion that condoms prevent STD's 100% of the time indicates that sick people will engage in sex using a condom, when they otherwise would not have.

That's simply logical.

The vaccine against measles isn't 100% effective either. Does that mean it shouldn't be applied at all?

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

Originally posted by: Atreus21
Yes people are going to have sex.

Condoms encourage them to have sex.

If someone has AIDS, they should not have sex, even with a condom. It's not worth putting your partner at risk.

Condoms don't encourage folks to have sex, sex encourages folks to have sex. The Pope's position is logically indefensible, don't try.

The illusion that condoms prevent STD's 100% of the time indicates that sick people will engage in sex using a condom, when they otherwise would not have.

That's simply logical.

The vaccine against measles isn't 100% effective either. Does that mean it shouldn't be applied at all?

Measles isn't a life-threatening/ruining pandemic. Also, the vaccine against measles doesn't involve you engaging in exactly the type of activity which would cause you to contract it.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
And Catholics wonder why people think that the church is irrelevant.

Yeah, a religion with 1.1 Billion worshippers is irrelevant. :disgust:

Yes, it is, as are the rest.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
His science is pretty sound. That's good enough for me!

Science? What science is that? The science of staring at your asshole in the mirror? Because that's about as close to actual science as the pope seems to get.

You should realize that the pope's job is to spew ideological religious dogma at the rest of the world. That's it. There is no scientific evidence to support the notion that the AIDS crisis in Africa "...cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which even aggravates the problems."

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: NeoV
Catholic Church - I'd like you to meet someone - the 20th and 21st century.

So clueless it's appalling, no wonder the ranks of church-goers are plunging.

Diocese here in Cleveland this week just shut down 30-40 churches, and merged a ton of others together.

The amount of people in the catholic church has doubled in the past 50 years. And their membership increase is outpacing world population growth.

The western democracy's are seeing a fall in religion in general. However the report that came out about the fall in practicing christians in the United States noted the catholic church didnt see the fall in numbers like the protestants.

Catholic church biggest problem right now isnt numbers, it is their insistence on not allowing married men to become priests. They have a priest shortage that is getting worse by the year. This subject they will have to compromise on.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

Originally posted by: Atreus21
Yes people are going to have sex.

Condoms encourage them to have sex.

If someone has AIDS, they should not have sex, even with a condom. It's not worth putting your partner at risk.

Condoms don't encourage folks to have sex, sex encourages folks to have sex. The Pope's position is logically indefensible, don't try.

The illusion that condoms prevent STD's 100% of the time indicates that sick people will engage in sex using a condom, when they otherwise would not have.

That's simply logical.

In case you haven't noticed the problem is that sick people are having sex anyway. Despite being sick, despite being told not to. Adding condoms to the situation can only help, even if they aren't 100% effective. This isn't even debatable.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
And Catholics wonder why people think that the church is irrelevant.

Yeah, a religion with 1.1 Billion worshippers is irrelevant. :disgust:

Yes, it is, as are the rest.

Uh huh. If we could live 500 years I'd bet you the Catholic Church outlives this country.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
And Catholics wonder why people think that the church is irrelevant.

Yeah, a religion with 1.1 Billion worshippers is irrelevant. :disgust:

Yes, it is, as are the rest.

Uh huh. If we could live 500 years I'd bet you the Catholic Church outlives this country.

The catholic church has outlived many countries and empires, and you are probably quite right that it will outlive this one.
That doesn't mean that the church isn't becoming irrelevant with its practices.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit

The catholic church has outlived many countries and empires, and you are probably quite right that it will outlive this one.
That doesn't mean that the church isn't becoming irrelevant with its practices.

I dont know many ideologies that thrive if they are irrelevant. Can you name another?

 

[CrackRabbit]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit

The catholic church has outlived many countries and empires, and you are probably quite right that it will outlive this one.
That doesn't mean that the church isn't becoming irrelevant with its practices.

I dont know many ideologies that thrive if they are irrelevant. Can you name another?

Not offhand, no, I cannot name another.

The Catholic church is not thriving though (at least not in the US) and has been in decline here for at least 10 years if not longer.
I would have to look up the actual statistics to back up my statement.

 

[jackschmittusa]

In 500 years, the people will look at us like we look at the people who used to knock on trees to contact the tree spirits.

As the internet spreads, knowledge will truly become common and oppressive governments and religions will no longer be tolerated.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Phokus
As far as i'm concerned, the Catholic church is complicit in genocide.

So is the rest of the world. Welcome to life.

in a bizarre irony, particularly coming from me, i would say bush was one person that isn't

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: TallBill
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl...pe-africa-condoms-aids

The Pope today reignited the controversy over the Catholic church's stance on condom use as he made his first trip to Africa.

The pontiff said condoms were not the answer to the continent's fight against HIV and Aids and could make the problem worse.

Benedict XVI made his comments as he flew to Cameroon for the first leg of a six-day trip that will also see him travelling to Angola.

The timing of his remarks outraged health agencies trying to halt the spread of HIV and Aids in sub-Saharan Africa, where an estimated 22 million people are infected.

The Roman Catholic church encourages sexual abstinence and fidelity to prevent the disease from spreading, but it is a policy that has divided some clergy working with Aids patients.

The pontiff, speaking to journalists on his flight, said the condition was "a tragedy that cannot be overcome by money alone, that cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which even aggravates the problems".

Rebecca Hodes, of the Treatment Action Campaign in South Africa, said that if the Pope was serious about preventing new HIV infections he would focus on promoting wider access to condoms and spreading information about how best to use them.

Hodes, the director of policy, communication and research for the campaign group, added: "Instead, his opposition to condoms conveys that religious dogma is more important to him than the lives of Africans."

It is not the first time the Pope has made public remarks on the HIV/Aids outbreak ravaging the continent.

Shortly after becoming pontiff in 2005, he told senior Catholic clergy from Africa that, while the disease was a "cruel epidemic", it could not be cured through using condoms.

Addressing bishops from South Africa, Botswana, Swaziland, Namibia and Lesotho who had travelled to the Vatican for papal audience, he said: "The traditional teaching of the church has proven to be the only failsafe way to prevent the spread of HIV/Aids."

He also warned them that African life was under threat from a number of factors, including condoms.

"It is of great concern that the fabric of African life, its very source of hope and stability, is threatened by divorce, abortion, prostitution, human trafficking and a contraception mentality," he added.

More than two-thirds ? 67% ? of the global total of 32.9 million people with HIV live in sub-Saharan Africa.

Three-quarters of all Aids deaths in 2007 happened there.

Africa is the fastest-growing region for the Roman Catholic church, which competes with Islam and evangelical churches.

The Pope also said today that he intended to make an appeal for "international solidarity" for Africa in the face of the global economic downturn.

He said that, while the church did not propose specific economic solutions, it could give "spiritual and moral" suggestions.

Describing the current crisis as the consequence of "a deficit of ethics in economic structures", he added: "It is here that the church can make a contribution."

Benedict dismissed claims that he was facing increasing opposition and isolation within the church, particularly after an outreach to ultra-conservatives led to him lifting the excommunication of a Holocaust-denying bishop.

"The myth of my solitude makes me laugh," he said, adding that he could count on the network of friends and aides he saw every day.

In a letter to Catholic bishops, released last week, he made an unusual public acknowledgment of Vatican mistakes over the rehabilitation of Bishop Richard Williamson.

While acknowledging that errors had been made in handling the affair, Benedict said he was saddened that he was criticised "with open hostility" even by those who "should have known better".

Sorry Mr. Pope, but people are gonna have sex. Might as well use condoms.

Yes people are going to have sex.

Condoms encourage them to have sex.

If someone has AIDS, they should not have sex, even with a condom. It's not worth putting your partner at risk.

brilliant logic

people are going to have sex even though they shouldn't, so we shouldn't give them condoms because they might have even more sex than they were already having

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
And Catholics wonder why people think that the church is irrelevant.

rabbit you must be on crack...