Poor time to build new system?

[cmdrdredd]

Is this kind of a bad time to build a new system with AM5 rumors floating around for a release this year?

Been sort of thinking about doing a fresh build for pure gaming with no bloat/extra software and leave my current PC as is. Just swap my 1080ti back in this one and put the 3080ti in the new build. Part of me thinks it foolish to build something now while another part of me says just do it.

Thinking either a 12700k or 5900x and know either will do just fine but would the timing be poor if done now?

 

[Carfax83]

Is this kind of a bad time to build a new system with AM5 rumors floating around for a release this year?

I'm in the same predicament. My current rig is long in the tooth to put it mildly, and I REALLY want to upgrade now but with Zen 4, Raptor Lake and the RTX 4000 series coming down the pipeline in just a few months I feel as though I would regret it if I decided to pull the trigger now.

I've especially been looking at the graphics cards. The RTX 3090 Ti prices have dropped by over a thousand dollars compared to how they were a few months ago, which makes it very tempting. I'm also a bit disappointed that Raptor Lake won't have any IPC increases. I was hoping for a small sub 10% increase at the very least. If Raptor Lake's DLVR tech doesn't deliver and reduce power consumption significantly, then it's a bust if you ask me.

 

[blckgrffn]

I held onto my 3930K rig a smidge too long.

to The 5800x3D should age really nicely. You can buy a solid, mature and robust x570S board for just around $200. Buy a solid amount of good ram, a nice fast NVME drive and enjoy watching all the issues the first wave of AM5 boards have and the irritation people have when AMD releases new chipsets, etc. that one up the launch boards. Just enjoy the feeling of having a very solid platform, and the 5800x3D will probably hold value well like the 8700K.

That’s my $.02 and why I moved to the high end of AM4 at the end. It’s mature and you know you got the best of it.

 

[DrMrLordX]

5800X3D can get away with DDR4-3200 without too much difficulty. 3600-3800 is still better but, it's less dependent than standard Zen3 on RAM. So if you want to cheap out and/or be lazy with your RAM, 5800X3D brings with it less cost and complication than Alder Lake.

I still recommend waiting for at least Raphael to launch before buying current-gen stuff. Prices should come down.

 

[Aapje]

I've especially been looking at the graphics cards. The RTX 3090 Ti prices have dropped by over a thousand dollars compared to how they were a few months ago, which makes it very tempting. I'm also a bit disappointed that Raptor Lake won't have any IPC increases. I was hoping for a small sub 10% increase at the very least. If Raptor Lake's DLVR tech doesn't deliver and reduce power consumption significantly, then it's a bust if you ask me.

I definitely wouldn't buy a 3090 (Ti) now, unless you truly need it right now. The higher end you buy right now, the sooner the new cards will turn up and the bigger the difference in price/performance will be for the next gen.

 

[blckgrffn]

I definitely wouldn't buy a 3090 (Ti) now, unless you truly need it right now. The higher end you buy right now, the sooner the new cards will turn up and the bigger the difference in price/performance will be for the next gen.

Yeah, I am thinking the $700 3080 12GB and $500 6800s are approaching the sweet spot as their real replacements could be quite a ways out. There will be cards that dethrone them, yes as always, but availability and pricing might be pretty whacky and both cards should hold value pretty well and offer a lot of performance today while also being at least reasonable to power/cool.

Now, if you are doing VR or apps that require all available vram then it looks like the 3090 and 3090ti will probably hold the line on that front for a bit, like the old Titans.

 

[ZGR]

My problem with buying RTX 3000/RX 6000 is the lack of display port 2.0 support. 4k144 is something I really desire. Being limited to HDMI 4k monitors eliminates a lot of choices that might be quite affordable in the future.

 

[Markfw]

My problem with buying RTX 3000/RX 6000 is the lack of display port 2.0 support. 4k144 is something I really desire. Being limited to HDMI 4k monitors eliminates a lot of choices that might be quite affordable in the future.

evga 3080ti and others in the line have displayport. I am confused ? And price, the best 3090TI they have is now $1500, and the 3080TI I have (and paid like $1600 for) is now $1090.

 

[ZGR]

evga 3080ti and others in the line have displayport. I am confused ? And price, the best 3090TI they have is now $1500, and the 3080TI I have (and paid like $1600 for) is now $1090.

3080 Ti and 3090 Ti only support Display Port 1.4a according to Nvidia's website.

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080-Familie

Die Superleistung, nach der sich Gamer sehnen – mit der NVIDIA Ampere-Architektur.

www.nvidia.com

3090 & 3090 Ti-Grafikkarten

Die Leistung der TITAN-Klasse für das ultimative Gaming.

www.nvidia.com

The only announced GPU to support DisplayPort 2.0 is ironically the iGPU in Zen 4 iirc.
Having DisplayPort and HDMI supporting 4k144hz would allow for a lot more choice for the consumer I like to believe. Not a fan of the 1st gen 4k144hz where you need 2 display port 1.4a ports to run at 98 Hz if you want HDR.

Edit: Intel's Arc supports Display Port 2.0 as well. Nice.

 

[Markfw]

Well, that explains it. No idea why as they are the best EVGA makes.

 

[Shmee]

I am confused, it says 4k supported up to 240Hz?

 

[ZGR]

I am confused, it says 4k supported up to 240Hz?

It is confusing!

To achieve higher than 4k120 without HDR over DP 1.4, DSC is required.

Wikipedia has a decent table:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort#Refresh_frequency_limits_for_HDR_video

 

[Shmee]

Yeah I have seen those tables before. They still aren't super clear though lol. What is wrong with DSC?

 

[ZGR]

Yeah I have seen those tables before. They still aren't super clear though lol. What is wrong with DSC?

For purely gaming and watching videos, nothing at all.

DSC does use an additional head to drive the display which can be a negative for multi monitor users.

But there can be a slight fuzziness to text which is my biggest issue. But that is when monitor doesn’t switch back to 4:4:4 chroma. If handled correctly, no way end user should notice.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Edit: Intel's Arc supports Display Port 2.0 as well. Nice.
View attachment 65061

Yeah. Very nice!

 

[cmdrdredd]

It's a bad time to build a high performance flagship machine, but it's a good time for building a high value gaming rig.

If you just want a dedicated gaming system, the 5800X3D is the way to go. It will stay close to flagship performance even after the AM5 and RTL launch, but for a fraction of the cost. No need for fancy RAM, no need for fancy cooling, no manual overclocking available (not a plus, just a reality), so not much tinkering. All you can do is assemble and game

With the way the new CPUs work with Boost 3.0 or whatever Intel calls it and whatever AMD calls theirs, there doesn't seem to be much meat left on the bone for pure overclocking. Working memory timings and bandwidth seems to be beneficial though on some motherboards.

Anyhow, at 4k it wouldn't matter if I was using a 12700k or a 5800x3D. That's usually what I'm at in most games resolution wise.

I have another purpose for this PC which is why I'd start fresh and pretty much leave this one as it is. Gaming first, no extra hardware or software I don't need, but I can't say I'm not interested in any performance gains for handbrake and such either.

 

[cmdrdredd]

@ZGR https://www.nowinstock.net/computers/memory/

Looks like DDR5 would run about $340 for 2x32GB
View attachment 64970

The extra costs are with the MOBO though usually 1.5X that of a DDR4 MOBO.

AM5 will only be DDR5 though which should ramp production from current levels to meet demand and drive prices down further by the end of the year.

More than that if you want a real performance gain over DDR4 too. I've been looking at numerous reviews and checking prices and it seems you need to go over 5000mhz DDR5 to see any significant gains (and by significant I mean situations where DDR4 doesn't win the benchmark). DDR5-6000 32GB kit is about $300 compared to DDR4 -4000 at around $150 for the same brand. The price isn't much of a concern to me so much as the reliability. I've had issues with overclocking memory when a spec is fairly new. DDR3 gave me endless headaches until I finally got a set that worked as advertised. Could have been BIOS related I'll admit.

 

[Aapje]

Yeah, I really want to go for DDR5-5600 if I upgrade to a DDR5 platform. I don't see the point of going for 4800 when that is both slower and more expensive. Then I'd rather just stay with a DDR4 platform for a while.

And reliability is indeed an issue, especially with AM5. Intel has had end-user experience with DDR5 so their 13th gen should be decently reliable. You might see issues with AM5 at first, though.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Yeah, I really want to go for DDR5-5600 if I upgrade to a DDR5 platform. I don't see the point of going for 4800 when that is both slower and more expensive. Then I'd rather just stay with a DDR4 platform for a while.

And reliability is indeed an issue, especially with AM5. Intel has had end-user experience with DDR5 so their 13th gen should be decently reliable. You might see issues with AM5 at first, though.

After lots of consideration over the past couple of days and some more research this morning, I decided that a 5800x3d makes little sense since my target resolution is 4k at 120hz or 1440p at 120hz. I game on a LG CX OLED TV which as many of you know supports 4k/120hz. On 244hz monitors I can see wanting to max out the CPU potential to push frames. Since I'm at 1440p/120 or 4k/120 or 60Hz depending on in game settings and game in question, it doesn't make sense. Honestly for me it seems to make the most sense to go with a 5900x or 5950x with DDR4 and swap my 16GB kit back in and use the 32GB kit on the new build. Sure it's only 3200Mhz memory but it doesn't seem like there is that big of a difference to spend the extra $150 or so on memory. Can put that toward a second 980 Pro SSD. Leaning toward the 5950x just to have extra cores to work with but I see it has a higher stock boost clock as well. Overclocking gains seem minimal at best and at worst you can ruin your single core boost potential (which is probably very useful in games) so I'm not really looking at overclocking, just working with PBO I guess.

Still going to do a little more research, but right now I'm of this mindset.

 

[|JosephB17331|]

If you wait... you'll always be waiting for the next greatest thing. This is laughable to think there is some gatekeeper that you should follow on when to build a rig. If you have the wants and needs to build ... then build..
Unless you have an ego, that won't allow you to be lower on the e-peen supreme pecking order.. then sheesh.. build what you want

 

[Aapje]

Sure it's only 3200Mhz memory but it doesn't seem like there is that big of a difference to spend the extra $150 or so on memory.

A benefit of the 5800X3D is that it is extremely memory speed insensitive, so it compensates for slower memory. However, 3200 is really not that slow (assuming decent timings) and with 4K, it is unlikely to matter much.

Leaning toward the 5950x just to have extra cores to work with but I see it has a higher stock boost clock as well.

If it's just for gaming, those extra cores are very unlikely to help. Once the work is spread out over 8 cores, there's almost certainly a job that has to happen on one CPU that maxes out that one CPU, while there is excess capacity on the other 7 cores. Assuming that the CPU is limiting your machine in the first place, which is unlikely.

The 100 Mhz extra of the 5950x will help a little, but only a little. I expect the extra cache to help more.

However, I think that the extra cost is totally out of whack for what you get, for gaming. I'd put that extra money towards that SSD, a more expensive video card, pulling forward your next (partial) upgrade or many other things.

 

[DrMrLordX]

If you wait... you'll always be waiting for the next greatest thing. This is laughable to think there is some gatekeeper that you should follow on when to build a rig. If you have the wants and needs to build ... then build..
Unless you have an ego, that won't allow you to be lower on the e-peen supreme pecking order.. then sheesh.. build what you want

Wow that's useless. He wouldn't be asking if he didn't need some help. Nobody here is a gatekeeper. And there are critical moments where the value you get for your purchase is enhanced, such as will be the case in September when Raphael finally reaches retail availability. Both 5800X3D and Alder Lake will be (or should be) significantly cheaper then or immediately before then.

Video cards are still up in the air with rumours that NV will delay their 4000-series products, but AMD is moving right along with RDNA3 and the Ethereum Merge(tm) is still slated for August, so . . .

 

[coercitiv]

5950X /w 3200Mhz RAM sounds a lot more like a workstation than a gaming focused build. Even if we acknowledge that the 3080Ti cannot push enough @ 4K to stress the CPU today, I was under the impression this wasn't a single GPU gen build and the flagship GPU tier is not an exception. The next card in this system may be able to double the performance, especially with DLSS and FSR becoming ubiquitous in the near future... you may want to consider what happens then.

Anyway, I'm seeing great prices for both 5900X and 5950X, good luck to the OP and I hope you have quite a bit of fun building the new system. I find it very interesting that people who bought Coffee Lake not only managed to dodge the Kaby Lake bullet, they also have some fascinating options this year.

 

[deathBOB]

I say no, not a bad time. Ryzen 4 looks good, but I wouldn’t want to be an early adopter on a new AMD platform. RL doesn’t seem like much of a jump from AL.

 

[blckgrffn]

5950X /w 3200Mhz RAM sounds a lot more like a workstation than a gaming focused build. Even if we acknowledge that the 3080Ti cannot push enough @ 4K to stress the CPU today, I was under the impression this wasn't a single GPU gen build and the flagship GPU tier is not an exception. The next card in this system may be able to double the performance, especially with DLSS and FSR becoming ubiquitous in the near future... you may want to consider what happens then.

Anyway, I'm seeing great prices for both 5900X and 5950X, good luck to the OP and I hope you have quite a bit of fun building the new system. I find it very interesting that people who bought Coffee Lake not only managed to dodge the Kaby Lake bullet, they also have some fascinating options this year.

Grabbing a 8700K at launch would have been a really solid move, IMO. Kudos to those who had the foresight and then also the patience not to iterate that same CPU a couple more times!

If you told me you had a 8700K paired with darn near any modern GPU I wouldn't think twice about it.

 

[Aapje]

and the Ethereum Merge(tm) is still slated for August, so . . .

September.

I find it very interesting that people who bought Coffee Lake not only managed to dodge the Kaby Lake bullet, they also have some fascinating options this year.

Yeah, my i5-8400 has served me very well. Buying right before Intel's ability to shrink until 12th gen, meant that price/performance didn't increase all that much for a while.