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Poor performance entitles federal employees to bonuses.

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<< We're over 20 posts into this thread. Is anyone else surprised that we haven't seen a single post extolling the virtues of a BIGGER government? Have all of the big government advocates really disappeared?

Also, I don't think I've seen a post yet that's cast a dissenting view. I'm not sure I've ever seen such a harmonious political-type discussion last this long. 🙂 >>



Who wants a bigger government?

Well, I think when it comes down to philosophy, conservatives tend to want to ensure the responsibility for one's own success or failure on oneself, which I completely agree with... I just don't see how that translates into trusting individuals to become the authority for important institutions in the country. I just don't trust individuals as much as I would trust a regulated body. There's too much room for corruption. Atleast now with corruption in the government things will change if it is magnified by the media. Plus, government can be bailed out and revamped... Private entities don't have that safety net, or those checks and balances...
 
There's too much room for corruption. Atleast now with corruption in the government things will change if it is magnified by the media.

Exactly. In reality, the media provides many of the checks government so sorely lacks.
 
Texmaster- if I may take advantage just once more, then I'll get out (promise)

Busmaster- I you have a point,and I was not clear about my concern. My previous post is in part based on this reasoning.

The Saudis are not our enemies now but the possibility of an Iran type revolution is, unfortunately, a realistic scenario. After all, more and more effort on the part of the Saudi government is going into placating the fundamentalists. If they fail, then the same type of people who run Iran would control Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia controls OPEC to a large degree. If the change I said might occur happened, then the overwhelming influence over OPEC would be by those who like us least.
While it is true that the oil trade is a two way transaction, remember they have enormous wealth. They can get by a long time since they are not driven by the acquisition of expensive cars and the like. I also doubt they would be as concerned with the material well-being of their citizens as is the current administration.
That said, under these condition, we may face a blockade from all of OPEC.
Speculation I admit, but it bothers me
 


<< Texmaster- if I may take advantage just once more, then I'll get out (promise) >>




Ah forget it. Its interesting. Besides, my topics NEVER stay on topic 😀
 


<<

<< The exact same thing happens in corporations. Human nature doesn't change just because you work for the gov't. >>


There is one very important difference between this happening in a corporation and it happening in government. Corporations have to operate with the bottom line and stockholders in mind. Any large corporation that operates with the inefficiences that I have routinely observed while working on government contracts for most of my career would be bankrupt. Government operates on funds taken by force of law from taxpayers and should be held to a much higher standard. >>

There's lots of inefficiencies in corporations that don't go under. I've seen tons of incompetence in the "private" workforce, yet the companies still stay solvent.
 
The Saudis are not our enemies now but the possibility of an Iran type revolution is, unfortunately, a realistic scenario. After all, more and more effort on the part of the Saudi government is going into placating the fundamentalists. If they fail, then the same type of people who run Iran would control Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia controls OPEC to a large degree. If the change I said might occur happened, then the overwhelming influence over OPEC would be by those who like us least.
While it is true that the oil trade is a two way transaction, remember they have enormous wealth. They can get by a long time since they are not driven by the acquisition of expensive cars and the like. I also doubt they would be as concerned with the material well-being of their citizens as is the current administration.
That said, under these condition, we may face a blockade from all of OPEC.
Speculation I admit, but it bothers me

Good points and I too had been somewhat concerned about exactly what you describe.

OPEC, with Venezuela, comprises around 50 percent of our total crude oil imports and 25 percent of domestic consumption. Take Venezuela out of the equation and that number becomes 36 percent and 18 percent respectively. It would hurt, no doubt. Personally, I would speculate that Nigeria and Venezuela would break off and begin doing business much like Norway, Mexico, Canada and Russia.
 


<< Exactly. In reality, the media provides many of the checks government so sorely lacks. >>


Actually I think the media overall does a very poor job of this. They are quick to jump on the sensational stories but ignore the vast majority of waste and abuse that is endemic to modern big government.
 
As a federal employee, I can vouch that I will be receiving only a cost-of-living raise this year and a "bonus" of a few hundred dollars despite glowing reviews every six months. Why? Because I work for the CDC...we have no money....because the health and well-being of out nation's citizens just isn't very important until someone kills a few people with anthrax. The millions of others dying every year from preventable illnesses apparently didn't warrant increasing our budget. And don't start yapping about all the new money we are supposed to get now....I won't see any of it. It will go to build new admin facilities, not to bring my lab into the 20th f*cking century.

My lab: circa 1955, most equipment older than me, I had better stuff to work with in high school, bathrooms that would be considered a downgrade at most prisons, air handling system that cleverly pulls diesel fumes into my lab from the loading dock, maintained at anywhere from 60 to 84 degrees depending on whether the heating or cooling system is broken that day.

Building 16 (where the admin folks dwell): Wood paneling, carpeted, ceiling to floor windows, maintained at a comfy 72 degrees year-round.

Not every federal employee is a slack, overpaid POS. Just the ones at the top of the food chain. :|

Fausto
 


<< Not every federal employee is a slack, overpaid POS. Just the ones at the top of the food chain. >>


This is very true which is why in any discussion about this subject I am very careful to try and not generalize about civil service people. The overwhelming majority of them I have met are honest, hardworking folks much like you would meet in any company.
 


<< Would this happen in your job?


? The Federal Aviation Administration, where 161 civil service executives collected more than $1 million in bonuses even though the agency failed to meet half of its performance goals for the previous budget year;

? The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, where two executives won presidential rank awards worth $10,000 each, even though the agency missed by 14 percentage points a presidential target to increase seat belt use to 85 percent;

? and the Department of Education, where 39 executives got nearly $500,000 in bonuses last year, the highest payout of all the Cabinet agencies despite a General Accounting Office report that said the department provided "no fiscal year 2000 data for many indicators, no discussion of why goals were not met and no strategies on how the department would reach its goals."



Link >>



...and we want these people as bag screeners at airports...amazing....
 


<< I want a smaller governement, less control over me and less handouts on failed programs. >>


I don't think you completely believe what you are saying, Tex, if your right-wing conservative status is faithful. After all, the only true political movement that wants smaller government and less control over our lives is libertarianism. Conservatives want smaller government, yes, but they believe in the partial, though hypocritical, government control of the individual: prohibition of reproductive choice, commingled religion and state relations, federalized intolerance for alternative lifestyles, destructive control over smokable vegetation, etc.

Whoops, this is going to become OT, but I never could understand how someone could be a full conservative or liberal. You basically like government expansion, control and regulation or you don't. Isn't it hypocritical to pick and choose who should be on the receiving end of the government's punishment paddle? "Get the government out of my pocketbook, but we must have government-sanctioned prayer time in school!" Senseless.

Yes, cut the budget and cut those marginal tax rates! But don't make me become a Republican and be forced to eat all that right-ring religious right crappola that goes along with conservatism.
 


<< I don't think you completely believe what you are saying, Tex, if your right-wing conservative status is faithful. After all, the only true political movement that wants smaller government and less control over our lives is libertarianism.
<snip> >>


Let's hear it for Libertarianism! I'm one of those! 🙂

I think a problem with conservative/liberal/libertarian/populist labels is that they seem to be thrown around like they're a black & white issue. That is, in MY opinion, if someone has 95% conservative views and 5% liberal views, that doesn't necessarily make him a populist or a libertarian.

I'm going to use Texmaster as an example, without knowing anything about his stances on any issues. But if he doesn't necessarily agree with EVERY conservative ideal, that doesn't mean that he can't classify himself as a conservative. It might be more accurate to say 95% conservative, 5% liberal, but in my book that's still conservative.
 


<<

<< I want a smaller governement, less control over me and less handouts on failed programs. >>


I don't think you completely believe what you are saying, Tex, if your right-wing conservative status is faithful. After all, the only true political movement that wants smaller government and less control over our lives is libertarianism. Conservatives want smaller government, yes, but they believe in the partial, though hypocritical, government control of the individual: prohibition of reproductive choice, commingled religion and state relations, federalized intolerance for alternative lifestyles, destructive control over smokable vegetation, etc.

Whoops, this is going to become OT, but I never could understand how someone could be a full conservative or liberal. You basically like government expansion, control and regulation or you don't. Isn't it hypocritical to pick and choose who should be on the receiving end of the government's punishment paddle? "Get the government out of my pocketbook, but we must have government-sanctioned prayer time in school!" Senseless.

Yes, cut the budget and cut those marginal tax rates! But don't make me become a Republican and be forced to eat all that right-ring religious right crappola that goes along with conservatism. >>




Right wing religious crapola? And not religious stuff is crapola 🙂 Who says you have to? Hell I'm pro choice! LOL Find me a pro-life liberal, now THAT is a challenge 🙂

Yes I want smaller governemnt and of course I'm going to be picky about what programs I deem as failures becuse of my idiology.

Anyone who is completely conservative or completely liberal is just a sheep.

 


<< Right wing religious crapola? And not religious stuff is crapola 🙂 Who says you have to? Hell I'm pro choice! LOL Find me a pro-life liberal, now THAT is a challenge 🙂

Yes I want smaller governemnt and of course I'm going to be picky about what programs I deem as failures becuse of my idiology.

Anyone who is completely conservative or completely liberal is just a sheep. >>



You're pro-choice, Tex? OMG... Now thats a shock to my system...

I'm marginally pro-life actually... I would be if I had to be on one side of the fence... And I'm sure at some point you've accused me of being a weak-minded liberal so.. 😀 You may be surprised at the number of Christian liberals like me out there, that is, religiously still conservative to semi-conservative, politically liberal...

 
Sounds like my local teachers union I see here. They expect a bonus, though, I dont see any improvement in their efficency in their work.

People work hard for their money. Beats me why people expect to get a bigger paycheck when they dont work harder. Thats the idea of a raise, right? To reward hard work and your commitment.
 


<<

<< Right wing religious crapola? And not religious stuff is crapola 🙂 Who says you have to? Hell I'm pro choice! LOL Find me a pro-life liberal, now THAT is a challenge 🙂

Yes I want smaller governemnt and of course I'm going to be picky about what programs I deem as failures becuse of my idiology.

Anyone who is completely conservative or completely liberal is just a sheep. >>



You're pro-choice, Tex? OMG... Now thats a shock to my system... >>



The more you know.... 😀

Check my sig!



<< I'm marginally pro-life actually... I would be if I had to be on one side of the fence... And I'm sure at some point you've accused me of being a weak-minded liberal so.. >>



LOL not weak minded, but a liberal oh YEAH! 😀



<< You may be surprised at the number of Christian liberals like me out there, that is, religiously still conservative to semi-conservative, politically liberal... >>



I know there are quite a few Christian liberals out there but I never imagined pro life liberals.

Learn something new every day! 😀
 
I actually think religious conservatism and political liberalism go very well together if it weren't for the demographics of America, that is, the louder religious majority being largely white, protestant, upper class, traditional folk... Not that there's anything wrong with it. Oh well...
 
Would this happen in your job?

Yes, I'm a federal employee. 🙂


<-----Happy with the 5% raise for federal employees in his local
 
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