Poor OEM designs, single-channel RAM sabotage AMD’s Carrizo

[Abwx]

Is it so hard to accept that this chip underperformed outside of AMD's fancy marketing slides?
Yes, it helps, but even with dual-channel it can't properly beat a mid-range Core i5 (HD 520) in actual games while being crushed in CPU benchmarks (and that's the fastest SKU).

Lol, the AMD laptop use a chip that is limited to 18W.

On the other hand there s tons of Intel reviews at NBC among wich there are a big number of laptops with "15W" chips that get much higher, typicaly at 25-28W, so that wasnt difficult to produce a few numbers where the Intel looked less GPU crappy that they actualy are..

 

[cbn]

Is it so hard to accept that this chip underperformed outside of AMD's fancy marketing slides?
Yes, it helps, but even with dual-channel it can't properly beat a mid-range Core i5 (HD 520) in actual games while being crushed in CPU benchmarks (and that's the fastest SKU).

From that link:

Firestrike (standard graphics):

HD 520: 905 points

AMD R7 Carrrizo (dual channel DDR3 1600): 1153 points

Nvidia GT 920M (GK208 with 64 bit DDR3 1800): 1157 points

Considering Carrizo is at 15W, that is not bad.

P.S. GT 920M is 20W all by itself (although keep in mind this is Kepler, not Maxwell which in the form of GT 930M scores 1442, which is ~25% higher)

EDIT:

Intel Iris 540 (28W 15W Skylake GT3e): 1477 points

Intel Iris Pro 6200 (47W Broadwell GT3e): 1736 points

GT 940M (64 bit DDR3 2000): 1627 points

GT 940M with GDDR5 (64 bit memory bus): 2031 points

 

[inf64]

Check the graphics benchmarks and games, they tested both single and dual-channel.

Thanks, was watching at the specs chart. For a TDP limited chip Carrizo is actually doing very well. If they shipped models that are not limited to 18W and used faster DDR3 in DC mode it would be much better.

 

[Sweepr]

P.S. GT 920M is 20W all by itself (although keep in mind this is Kepler, not Maxwell)

No surprise here, it's barely faster than HD 520 in most games as well. Polaris/Pascal can't come soon enough.

 

[USER8000]

That articles is a rehash of the Anandtech article in this thread:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2463253

If people read that thread,AMD also had some pre-production laptops at their HQ which had issues running dual channel memory unlike ones you can buy.

Basically,AMD marketing messed up again.

Edit to post.

Notebookcheck reviewed a budget HP laptop running a 15W TDP Carrizo CPU and AMD even supplied a SODIMM for dual channel testing:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-Pavilion-15-ab052ng-Notebook-Review.152289.0.html

But,the laptops at AMD HQ all had problems running dual channel memory!

Its beating the HD5500.

 

[Abwx]

That articles is a rehash of the Anandtech article in this thread:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2463253

If people read that thread,AMD also had some pre-production laptops at their HQ which had issues running dual channel memory unlike ones you can buy.

Basically,AMD marketing messed up again.

Edit to post.

Notebookcheck reviewed a budget HP laptop running a 15W TDP Carrizo CPU and AMD even supplied a SODIMM for dual channel testing:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-Pavilion-15-ab052ng-Notebook-Review.152289.0.html

But,the laptops at AMD HQ all had problems running dual channel memory!

Its beating the HD5500.

The below are the Carrizo based laptops that are more or less the only ones available in Europe, none has single channel apparently, so it looks like reality do not agree with the usual urban legends, one more time...

https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=6749_13#xf_top

 

[SlowSpyder]

I don't get why OEM's are selling single channel handicapped AMD based laptops for the same price as fully functional Intel based laptops.

 

[ShintaiDK]

I don't get why OEM's are selling single channel handicapped AMD based laptops for the same price as fully functional Intel based laptops.

Volume is one of the key factors. And that Carrizo shares with Carrizo-L.

 

[inf64]

I don't get why OEM's are selling single channel handicapped AMD based laptops for the same price as fully functional Intel based laptops.

Maybe greed ?

 

[MrTeal]

Not sure that it s AMD that is full retard....

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38019862&postcount=247

What about facts rather than myths.?..

In the laptops below can someone tell us wich could be single channel :

https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=6749_13#xf_top

I say none.

The laptop provided by AMD for use at their facility by AT was a single channel design. Clearly both SODIMM slots are populated, yet the laptop clearly runs in single channel mode as is evidenced by CPU-Z and the test scores. The pre-release hardware provided also clearly has a different PCB than the release version.

When a major tech publication is coming to your facility to do in depth testing of your product and requests samples in a few different price ranges, it is going full retard to provide them with a pre-release unit that functions markedly poorer than a production unit. Saying that the Anandtech reporter is spreading FUD for calling the Y700 single channel is ridiculous; the sample provided to him was a single channel design. The failure for that lays right at the feet of the AMD marketing department.

As for your link, the very first one listed (Ideapad 500-15ACZ) is single channel. You can say none all you like, you're wrong.

 

[Abwx]

Saying that the Anandtech reporter is spreading FUD for calling the Y700 single channel is ridiculous; the sample provided to him was a single channel design. The failure for that lays right at the feet of the AMD marketing department.

It is months that i and a lot of people know that the commercialy available AMD base Lenovo Y700 comes with a dual channel configuration, you find logical that readers are more knowledgeble than a professional journalist in this register..?.

If he pretend to do an exhaustive article why not check the existing products..?.

Here a list, and that the only exiting one here, is that difficult to find ?.

https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=6749_13#xf_top

Actualy he talk of a possibility that didnt materialize at all when looking at the reality, as such his article is already outdated and to be classed in urban legends articles to say the least..

 

[MrTeal]

It is months that i and a lot of people know that the commercialy available AMD base Lenovo Y700 comes with a dual channel configuration, you find logical that readers are more knowledgeble than a professional journalist in this register..?.

If he pretend to do an exhaustive article why not check the existing products..?.

Here a list, and that the only exiting one here, is that difficult to find ?.

https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=6749_13#xf_top

Actualy he talk of a possibility that didnt materialize at all when looking at the reality, as such his article is already outdated and to be classed in urban legends articles to say the least..

You keep posting that list. In addition to the Ideapad 500, the Thinkpad E565 and HP Pavilion 15-ab109ng listed also come single channel. The other 8GB ones (other than the two explicitly spelled out as being 2x4GB) could be either. I'm not sure why you think that proves shipping Carrizo laptops are all dual channel.

 

[cbn]

Volume is one of the key factors. And that Carrizo shares with Carrizo-L.

And the sad thing is that 15W isn't really enough for 245mm2 of silicon on 28nm.

Look how Carrizo scales in GTA V gameplay going from 15W/25W to 35W/42W:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37946141&postcount=12

Here are two graphs from post #2351 of the Carrizo Pre-release thread:

15W is optimal if either both are loaded but results in the cpu clock suffering mostly.
At 35W you can run the cpu portion at 2.1GHz rather than ~1.1GHz. And run the GPU at 600-800MHz rather than 500MHz. So yes in terms of efficiency it's less good than at 15W but it would make the difference between playing games smoothly or being hit by a cpu bottleneck.

If it can meat or beat a 50W Intel + Nvidia setup with 35W it's still very efficient. (Let's say 15-20W for the Intel CPU + ~32W for the 840M)

I think they could match that Intel + Nv config going by the results Stilt posted for GTA V

15-25W:

35-42W:

This test, as mentioned, used GTA V (which is CPU intensive game) with Carrizo at two different two TDP levels:

15W with 25W AC boost

35W with 42W AC boost

But notice the large amount of extra mileage the 35W-42W got compared to the 15W-25W.

Its looks like the iGPU clocks rise form about ~350 MHz to about ~750 Mhz and the CPU clocks go from ~1500 Mhz to ~2500 Mhz in the middle part of the test.

That is a really big boost. With DDR4, I would think that Bristol Ridge at the same 35W-42W becomes very viable as an entry level gaming processor. (Probably even beating A8-7600 desktop processor with DDR3 2133, which is faster than the OEM A8-7600 desktop boxes that ship with DDR3 1600).

 

[Abwx]

You keep posting that list. In addition to the Ideapad 500, the Thinkpad E565 and HP Pavilion 15-ab109ng listed also come single channel. The other 8GB ones (other than the two explicitly spelled out as being 2x4GB) could be either. I'm not sure why you think that proves shipping Carrizo laptops are all dual channel.

These are all dual channels, only one slot is populated but there s two slots, the HP has been tested by NBC and is dual channel so it look like you are not bothered by your denial.

Seems that the fact that the cheaper one is dual channel completely destroy the argument of savings that could be made with a speculation that is irrational from the start anyway..

http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-HP-Pavilion-15-ab052ng-Notebook.150667.0.html

The lenovo E5XX :

DDR3L-1333 MHz / 1600 MHz SODIMM × 2 (max 16 GB)

https://support.lenovo.com/fr/fr/documents/pd100795



Truth is that the only Lenovo in this serie that is single channel is the Intel based Y700, so that s not surprising that reality is just reversed by some people..

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/lapt...1in-review-different-yoga-same-flaws/page/0/1

 

[cbn]

Regarding the 15W vs. 35W Carrizo.

I do wonder how much of the use of 15W cTDP was due to lack of Carrizo volume compared to Carrizo-L volume vs. the OEMs instance on using DDR3 1600 Max for laptops and desktops?

 

[ShintaiDK]

And the sad thing is that 15W isn't really enough for 245mm2 of silicon on 28nm.

Look how Carrizo scales in GTA V gameplay going from 15W/25W to 35W/42W:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37946141&postcount=12

I think most of us already knew

 

[cbn]

I think most of us already knew

Yeah, sadly it almost appears to me some OEMs are using Carrizo like a filler for when they don't have enough cat core chips. (Need to investigate this further).

 

[MrTeal]

These are all dual channels, only one slot is populated but there s two slots, the HP has been tested by NBC and is dual channel so it look like you are not bothered by your denial.

Seems that the fact that the cheaper one is dual channel completely destroy the argument of savings that could be made with a speculation that is irrational from the start anyway..

http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-HP-Pavilion-15-ab052ng-Notebook.150667.0.html

Truth is that the only Lenovo in this serie that is single channel is the Intel based Y700, so that s not surprising that reality is just reversed by some people..

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/lapt...1in-review-different-yoga-same-flaws/page/0/1

I never said the laptop wasn't capable of running dual channel, just that the ones you linked aren't dual channel. You specifically asked which of those models are single channel, and answered none. The correct answer is that the ones with one DIMM are single channel. The end user may be able to modify them to become dual channel, but that is not how they are shipped.

None of that disproves Ian's point, or makes the article some kind of hack job. He never said that Elitebooks, the Satellite, or the Pavilion were single channel designs; in fact he explicitly says that they are dual channel capable. None of the ones provided to him by AMD were run in dual channel mode though, and that is common in the marketplace.
HP Elitebook 745 G3
If you look up the Elitebook used in the review, HP has seven configurations. All have a single DIMM.

The only glaring fault in his article is that the shipping Y700 is in fact dual channel capable, and it would be good to see that updated. I would say the fault for that lies pretty much at the feet of AMD though, since they were the ones that provided him a semi-functional prototype and somehow didn't relay the changes in the production version despite him being in house.

 

[Abwx]

The correct answer is that the ones with one DIMM are single channel.

They all have two memory slots, the basic Lenovos use the same MB for the 465 and the 565 model, dont know for the Y700 MB but they all have two slots.

The 15 and 17" HPs, wich are the cheaper on the market, all have two slots and are dual channel even the 768p one, you can check at NBC....

The cheapest Acer has two slots a well :

Hauptspeicher
8192 MB , SDRAM DDR3-1600/2 Riegel/

http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Acer-Aspire-E17-E5-752G-T7WY-Notebook.150857.0.html

As you can read urban legends are easily created, or rather kept alive..

 

[TeknoBug]

Yeah doesn't seem right, it's like they're doing it on purpose *tinfoil hat*(paid by Intel???).

My A4 5000 laptop is single channel, and it has horrible performance sometimes (even has 2 memory slots). Also have a Z3735F tablet (single-channel) and a Z3740 tablet (dual-channel) and the Z3740 performs much better.

I saw a cheap and nasty desktop PC the other day (brand new) with an AMD CPU in, 4GB RAM, and 768MB RAM was allocated to graphics with no BIOS option to alter the value. The computer is going to be used for office work.

smh....

oh my lord.

 

[MrTeal]

They all have two memory slots, the basic Lenovos use the same MB for the 465 and the 565 model, dont know for the Y700 MB but they all have two slots.

The 15 and 17" HPs, wich are the cheaper on the market, all have two slots and are dual channel even the 768p one, you can check at NBC....

The cheapest Acer has two slots a well :

http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Acer-Aspire-E17-E5-752G-T7WY-Notebook.150857.0.html

As you can read urban legends are easily created, or rather kept alive..

Le sigh...

Yet again you miss the point. They have two memory slots. The user could buy another SODIMM online, grab a screwdriver, open up their laptop, and install it to allow dual channel mode. That is not what is shipping though, and those laptops are not dual channel. Most people do not crack open their laptops especially in the lower end of the market, and will be directly impacted by the performance hit of OEMs shipping laptops that run single channel.

I reiterate. Many of the laptops you listed at your German retailer are single channel. The motherboard may not be limited to that, but when you click buy you're getting the performance of a single channel. Those are single channel laptops.

 

[MrTeal]

Yeah doesn't seem right, it's like they're doing it on purpose *tinfoil hat*(paid by Intel???).

My A4 5000 laptop is single channel, and it has horrible performance sometimes (even has 2 memory slots). Also have a Z3735F tablet (single-channel) and a Z3740 tablet (dual-channel) and the Z3740 performs much better.

The funny thing is, on some you could get dual channel in a lot of cases, but the preconfigured models don't have it. I agree with Ian, the likely culprit is the belief people would rather have 1x8GB than 2x4GB.

Funny thing is, if you actually configure the Elitebook used in the review you can select 2x4GB instead for no extra money.
http://store.hp.com/us/en/Configure...1&storeId=10151&catEntryId=1150155&quantity=1

 

[Abwx]

Le sigh...

Yet again you miss the point. They have two memory slots. The user could buy another SODIMM online, grab a screwdriver, open up their laptop, and install it to allow dual channel mode. That is not what is shipping though, and those laptops are not dual channel. Most people do not crack open their laptops especially in the lower end of the market, and will be directly impacted by the performance hit of OEMs shipping laptops that run single channel.

I reiterate. Many of the laptops you listed at your German retailer are single channel. The motherboard may not be limited to that, but when you click buy you're getting the performance of a single channel. Those are single channel laptops.

You are doing theories, they all support as much a 16GB, you think that a single channel would be dedicated that much RAM..?..

Actualy all are dual channel, you can reiterate as much a you want, the fact that the cheapest ones are dual channel completely render the saving argument as moot.

As for your argument of consumer not messing with screwdrivers why was this never pointed for those case below :

https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=6752_Core+ix-6xxxU#xf_top

That s all single channel according to your "argument"..

 

[MrTeal]

You are doing theories, they all support as much a 16GB, you think that a single channel would be dedicated that much RAM..?..

Actualy all are dual channel, you can reiterate as much a you want, the fact that the cheapest ones are dual channel completely render the saving argument as moot, you think that if there was some saving to be done thi way Toshiba would use such a MB for a Carrizo-L ?...

My car supports a V8. I bought it with a V6, but I could still upgrade it to a V8 should I so choose.

Do I own a V8?

I am not doing theories. You seem to have some basic reading comprehension issues. Many of the laptops in your list have one (1) DIMM. That one DIMM is connected to one (1) memory channel. Those laptops are single (1) channel.
Could you add another DIMM to allow them to run dual channel? Yes.
Could you seek out another SKU from the same model with two DIMMs, which would run in dual channel mode? Most likely.
Are all the laptops you listed dual channel? No.

 

[ElFenix]

how is this thread not just a regurgitation of the other thread we have on this?