Poor OEM designs, single-channel RAM sabotage AMD’s Carrizo

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SimianR

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Mar 10, 2011
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I think it's less that there's something "fishy" going on and more that OEM's aren't targeting the high performance market with AMD's chips and are cheaping out - and they aren't doing AMD any favors in the process.
 

Zodiark1593

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Oct 21, 2012
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AMD probably doesn't have the weight behind it to get OEMs to utilize more reasonable supporting hardware in with it's chips.
 

mysticjbyrd

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AMD probably doesn't have the weight behind it to get OEMs to utilize more reasonable supporting hardware in with it's chips.
The issue isn't just the hardware, but the cost. No informed individual will buy an overpriced AMD product, when they can get the superior intel product for the same price.
 

mikeymikec

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May 19, 2011
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I saw a cheap and nasty desktop PC the other day (brand new) with an AMD CPU in, 4GB RAM, and 768MB RAM was allocated to graphics with no BIOS option to alter the value. The computer is going to be used for office work.

smh....
 

Good_fella

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AMD GPU performs poorly - Nvidia fault
AMD CPU performs poorly - Intel fault
AMD APU performs poorly - OEM fault
 

cbn

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According to the Anandtech article the motherboards are made with Carrizo-L in mind first, with Carrizo as an afterthought.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10000/who-controls-user-experience-amd-carrizo-thoroughly-tested/20

What the OEMs have done with Carrizo is pre-define it as a low end part, and worked with AMD to reduce their overheads by creating a pin-compatible platform between Carrizo and Carrizo-L. Because of the Carrizo-L limitations, any hardware that is built to support both but ends up with Carrizo is unnecessarily cut off at the legs before it leaves the gate. We see this with single channel memory designs, chassis built to cost, 13x7 TN panels for Carrizo-L systems and trackpads that need to be blown up in controlled explosions. A side note is the memory – Carrizo is defined up to DDR3-2133, but this only works in 35W scenarios. But if the device is designed for Carrizo-L as well, then it is limited to DDR3L-1600 at single channel by design, such as in the case of the Lenovo Y700. That’s restricting performance before you start.

AMD needs to define their market. I would argue that the split between the low Puma+ core platform and the Excavator module design, as with previous generations, should have been kept in place. OEMs design motherboards for laptops day-in and day-out, so designing two different ones for Carrizo and Carrizo-L isn’t that much of a hit in the R&D department. By combining the two AMD is ultimately defining a near-union Venn diagram which shouldn’t even exist. As a result, there are very few people (technical users or OEMs) willing to take a risk with a high end Carrizo platform, in case it might be restricted, or for fear of all the low quality systems currently in the market (if you can even find one) with bad panels or poor configurations.

There's also the fact that the performance per watt metrics lie purely in Intel's camp, and OEMs seem to believe that the highest specification CPU solves all issues, as in the Toshiba Satellite in our roundup that had the FX-8800P and not a lot else. When compared to the i5-5200U or i6-5300U, very few metrics went in AMD's favor, partly because of the memory issue but also due to Intel's architecture mapping better to common software.

The price/performance ratio is harder to clarify - as we saw in the Lenovo Y700 Carrizo vs Core comparison that for the same price the Intel version had a true quad core and dual channel memory but a smaller HDD compared to the Carrizo. But when we compare the Y700 Carrizo to the Zenbook UX305, also at a similar price, you exchange that 35W Carrizo for a 15W Core but in a smaller, lighter device, with the SoC performace being much closer in exchange for the size and weight of the laptop. The performance gap at 15W vs 15W is hard to compete against when the default designs are being stung with single channel memory (for integrated graphics and elements like compression) for what is arguably another $10-$25, especially with AMD's other business units that are focusing on gaming. There's also the design aspect, and why there are fewer thin/light platforms for Carrizo - part of this might be around z-height of the platform, which was the big push for Broadwell.

With that noted, I wonder how many Carrizo-L processors are sold compared to Carrizo?

Carrizo = 245mm2
Carrizo-L = 102mm2

But die size isn't everything. The cost factors in as well, of course (So I wonder if the split isn't > 2.5:1 (Carrizo-L: Carrizo).
 

Dufus

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Sep 20, 2010
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But if the device is designed for Carrizo-L as well, then it is limited to DDR3L-1600 at single channel by design, such as in the case of the Lenovo Y700. That’s restricting performance before you start.

As asked on the other thread with an unsatisfactory answer ("likely a different model with the same model number"!) why is it in this review of of the Y700-15ACZ from a few months back it has a screen shot of CPU-z showing dual channel operation?

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/ideapad-y700-15acz-review.783192/

Note the CPU-z version is 1.75, page 5 (taken some time later), I don't know if it's a bug or perhaps 1.74 had the bug. Anyone?
 
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R0H1T

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Jan 12, 2013
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As asked on the other thread with an unsatisfactory answer ("likely a different model with the same model number"!) why is it in this review of of the Y700-15ACZ from a few months back it has a screen shot of CPU-z showing dual channel operation?

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/ideapad-y700-15acz-review.783192/

Note the CPU-z version is 1.75, page 5 (taken some time later), I don't know if it's a bug or perhaps 1.74 had the bug. Anyone?
Maybe the reviewer can answer that for you, they do lurk around here sometimes :sneaky:
 

mrmt

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Aug 18, 2012
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With that noted, I wonder how many Carrizo-L processors are sold compared to Carrizo?

Carrizo = 245mm2
Carrizo-L = 102mm2

But die size isn't everything. The cost factors in as well, of course (So I wonder if the split isn't > 2.5:1 (Carrizo-L: Carrizo).

AMD had to swallow very low margins in order to place Carrizo in the same market bracket of Carrizo-L. Part of their corporate margins collapse can be attributed to the low margins console sales, but the other share comes from collapsing margins on the CPU business. They certainly cannot sell Carrizo for 2.5 times of what they get with Carrizo-L
 

DidelisDiskas

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Dec 27, 2015
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I really like reading parts of this forum, but this place is getting kind of toxic. It's either "amd is going bankrupt", or "intel is sabotaging something". Is this influx of hostility the norm here before big releases, or is the place getting bloated from damaged egos?
 
Aug 11, 2008
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Quality journalism. In case anyone has not gone to the article linked by the OP, it is nothing more than a regurgitation of the data from Anand's own tests (including charts!!), with a liberal dose of the usual unproven anti-AMD conspiracy theories thown in for good measure.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
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Quality journalism. In case anyone has not gone to the article linked by the OP, it is nothing more than a regurgitation of the data from Anand's own tests (including charts!!), with a liberal dose of the usual unproven anti-AMD conspiracy theories thown in for good measure.

Very bad journalism that is at odd with facts and is myths recyclage.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38019862&postcount=247

You can also see my post above yours, contrary to most here i check for real infos not theories based on hear say and wild speculations.
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
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Quality journalism. In case anyone has not gone to the article linked by the OP, it is nothing more than a regurgitation of the data from Anand's own tests (including charts!!), with a liberal dose of the usual unproven anti-AMD conspiracy theories thown in for good measure.

Thanks for the save. Quick glimpse made me assume they were just copying AT's data and adding their own spin.
 

Sweepr

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May 12, 2006
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Is it so hard to accept that this chip underperformed outside of AMD's fancy marketing slides?
Yes, it helps, but even with dual-channel it can't properly beat a mid-range Core i5 (HD 520) in actual games while being crushed in CPU benchmarks (and that's the fastest SKU).
 
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inf64

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Mar 11, 2011
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Is it so hard to accept that this chip underperformed outside of AMD's fancy marketing slides?
Yes, it helps, but even with dual-channel it can't properly beat a mid-range Core i5 (HD 520) in actual games while being crushed in CPU benchmarks (and that's the fastest SKU).
Where did you see dual channel in that review? I am looking at the review and it says single-channel for the Carrizo system.
 

Sweepr

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May 12, 2006
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Where did you see dual channel in that review? I am looking at the review and it says single-channel for the Carrizo system.

Check the graphics benchmarks and games, they tested both single and dual-channel.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
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Where did you see dual channel in that review? I am looking at the review and it says single-channel for the Carrizo system.

It does have dual channel results but the CPU is limited to 15W TDP and 1600MHz memory.

And even with that handicap it is faster than 14nm Core i5 6200U HD520 in games.
 

Sweepr

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May 12, 2006
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It does have dual channel results but the CPU is limited to 15W TDP and 1600MHz memory.

And even with that handicap it is faster than 14nm 6200U HD520 in games.

Wrong. Slower in 12 games, faster at 9 @ 1366x786 Medium (compared to HD 520). It doesn't even take Iris to beat AMD in mobile right now, a shame when the only possible advantage (and main selling point) would be better graphics performance than Intel's counterpart - but apparently Carrizo fails here too.
 
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