I really like the looks of the 87 and 88 GTs and there are some really nice engine swaps out there for them. I'd love to have one with a northstar.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
- Oct 22, 2000
- 24,514
- 44
- 91
No, it wasn't meant to be a sports car originally. One or two designers may have wished that, but the corporate order for the Fiero, what management ordered from the very beginning, was a commuter car with large amounts of componant overlap with existing economy cars (which is why the original 4's have a FWD drivetrain, just mounted differently) and could be used as a test bed for the space frame construction and for the potential feasibility of a mid-mounted engine. The idea was to use the styling and the engine placement to help Pontiac's image as a pioneering brand while offering a car that was nothing spectacular from a performance standpoint and that was never intended to be by the management who conceived it.
Face it, the Fiero was nothing more than a nicely-styled test vehicle for the space frame and the practicality of the mid-engine design.
ZV
I drove an 86GT for 10 years, and I gotta tell you, it was an experience. When the car was healthy, it was too fun to drive. The MPFI 2.8L V8 was downright zippy -- quick off the line and the auto always seemed to shift well. Plus the size of the car fit perfectly with my always-weaving style of driving. 
Cruised perfectly at 80mph.. felt like it could just live there. Not the quietest car at that speed, but you've gotta remember that your ears are like 4-6 inches from the engine compartment.
The guy previously talked about 50/50 weight distribution, but I'd have to say my experience was that it was heavier in back -- definitely did a few inadvertent 360's around corners in the snowy years!
Over the years I did a few mods -- mostly interior but a few engine. The thing with these cars (*any* car this old?) is that you have to go into it with a willingness to get your hands dirty. Things will break, randomly stop working, act flaky etc., and if you take it to a shop every time you won't end up keeping the car. Best advice there is two things:
1) Get a factory service manual. Not haynes, not chiltons, but the original 4 billion page factory service manual from GM. Great diagrams and how to instructions for diagnostics and parts replacement. Worth its weight in gold (or at least the $80 or so they were going for a few years ago)
2) Get on the www.fiero.org mailing list, and also investigate Ed Parks' moderated list at yahoo (http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/FIERO/). These lists are the best resource you could have as a fiero owner. Literally, you have a question? Post it to the list and watch the answers come rolling in over the next few hours. I think the fiero.org list at one time was the most active car related list on the net -- back in the mid-late 90's that thing would generate about 100 messages a day, but it's slower now. Outlook rules are still a good thing...
All that said, I'm also one of the ones that's snobby about the fastback GT's. I hated the notchbacks! The fastback design was ahead of it's time, and looked pretty stylish IMHO. Right after I painted my car (nice and yellow) I ran into *many* people asking me what new model car that was. Should have seen their faces when I told them it was 10 years old!
Anyway, sorry to wax nostalgic, but I loved my old car. Had to sell it when I got the brand new '02 Maxima GLE optioned to the hilt -- no competition there! Talk about a car that's quick off the line!
Good luck!
Cruised perfectly at 80mph.. felt like it could just live there. Not the quietest car at that speed, but you've gotta remember that your ears are like 4-6 inches from the engine compartment.
The guy previously talked about 50/50 weight distribution, but I'd have to say my experience was that it was heavier in back -- definitely did a few inadvertent 360's around corners in the snowy years!
Over the years I did a few mods -- mostly interior but a few engine. The thing with these cars (*any* car this old?) is that you have to go into it with a willingness to get your hands dirty. Things will break, randomly stop working, act flaky etc., and if you take it to a shop every time you won't end up keeping the car. Best advice there is two things:
1) Get a factory service manual. Not haynes, not chiltons, but the original 4 billion page factory service manual from GM. Great diagrams and how to instructions for diagnostics and parts replacement. Worth its weight in gold (or at least the $80 or so they were going for a few years ago)
2) Get on the www.fiero.org mailing list, and also investigate Ed Parks' moderated list at yahoo (http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/FIERO/). These lists are the best resource you could have as a fiero owner. Literally, you have a question? Post it to the list and watch the answers come rolling in over the next few hours. I think the fiero.org list at one time was the most active car related list on the net -- back in the mid-late 90's that thing would generate about 100 messages a day, but it's slower now. Outlook rules are still a good thing...
All that said, I'm also one of the ones that's snobby about the fastback GT's. I hated the notchbacks! The fastback design was ahead of it's time, and looked pretty stylish IMHO. Right after I painted my car (nice and yellow) I ran into *many* people asking me what new model car that was. Should have seen their faces when I told them it was 10 years old!
Anyway, sorry to wax nostalgic, but I loved my old car. Had to sell it when I got the brand new '02 Maxima GLE optioned to the hilt -- no competition there! Talk about a car that's quick off the line!
Good luck!
I had one long ago (GT V6). The acceleration was good in its day (low 8s 0-60) but today minivans will outaccelerate it so it's nothing special. Gas guzzler and the tank was so tiny you had to constantly visit gas stations. Hated that since my commutes were long. I had to go to the gas station almost every three days. Almost no space for anything, granted it's a tiny car but I knew a guy with an MR2 and it was way better in space efficiency. Handling was pretty good though that had to do with its weight distribution rather than suspension. Interior was the pinnacle of crappy GM designs of the mid 80s. Not a car I would ever want to set foot in again. If you want a mid-engine car then get an MR2 -- way better.
No, it really was supposed to be a sports car. That was the whole idea from the beginning, but GM didn't want a new little sports car. GM always has and always will detest the idea of a poor mans Corvette. The 2 seat Fiero looked good and could move quick enough for most people in the '80s and cost less than half what the Vette did. The 1990 prototype had the prototype 3.2l DOHC V6 that later found its way into Grand Prixs and Luminas. That 215hp was closing in on the Vettes of the day that were still under 300, and it weighed a few hundred pounds less. Plus, anyone who's ever driven a Fiero knows that they handle remarkably well for a stock econo box. That was always a major selling point.
GM mandated that it be an econo car. GM never like the project, so they gave it a shoestring budget. Thats where all the overlap came from, the engineers had to pull parts from other existing vehicles to save money. By '88, they had the money to do what they wanted, but sales were down (but still turning a profit) and there were a lot of competitors and GM dropped the axe.
The original idea came from John Delorean, way back in the '60s. GM would never go for it, so he eventually left and started his own company. Hulki and others picked up the space frame and mid engine ideas in the late 70s and fought hard to bring the car to life. And, in fine GM tradition, just when they were getting it right, the killed the car. The Delorean was supposed to be a sports car too, but John chose a poor engine.
GM mandated that it be an econo car. GM never like the project, so they gave it a shoestring budget. Thats where all the overlap came from, the engineers had to pull parts from other existing vehicles to save money. By '88, they had the money to do what they wanted, but sales were down (but still turning a profit) and there were a lot of competitors and GM dropped the axe.
The original idea came from John Delorean, way back in the '60s. GM would never go for it, so he eventually left and started his own company. Hulki and others picked up the space frame and mid engine ideas in the late 70s and fought hard to bring the car to life. And, in fine GM tradition, just when they were getting it right, the killed the car. The Delorean was supposed to be a sports car too, but John chose a poor engine.
I've owned my '88 Fiero GT for a year now and the only 2 problems I've had have been the A/C (wore out) and the fuel filter getting clogged (car has sat for 16 years). I must admit that I like it better than my '00 Camaro Z28. Handles better, looks better (Camaro has 17" rims, t-tops, flowmaster exhaust, and spotless blue paint), and it gets more attention. I've pegged the speedo at 120 in the Fiero with no problems at all, it was still smooth as silk. Most people who hate Fieros have either A. seen the wrong ones, B. never driven 1 or C. driven the wrong ones. I've driven a pre-88 Fiero and the suspension and the steering sucked. On my '88 I actually prefer the non-power steering more than the twitchy power steering in the Camaro.
The Fiero was originally pitched to GM as a small sports car with good power. I'm surprised the car was even made with all the politics against it. GM forced the car to use parts from other cars (GM scrap heap) and forced it to be a economical car. Back in '84 the 4-cyl was rated at over 40 mpg highway. Things gradually got better and it really wasn't until 1988 when they got things "partially" right (still needed a stronger engine). From what I heard the 1990 Fiero prototype was supposed to get a turbo-charged 2.9L V6 and it could beat corvettes.. In '88 the GM vendetta vs. the Fiero finally took completely control and cancelled the Fiero.
Personally I like the car because it is the "poor man's Ferrari/Lotus/etc". A couple days ago I parked next to a guy with a Lotus Esprit (2002 model) and he seemed to like my car (and I liked his), and they were very similiar in overall appearance. Now, the car doesn't come fast stock, but hell, for less than 10k I can stick in a SBC engine and beat many cars on the road (including my Camaro, Camaro is 3400 lbs with a 320 HP LS1 engine, a Fiero with the same engine or more would own it). So, for about 10% of the cost of a Lotus Esprit I can get something that looks almost the same, handles similiarly (Fiero is actually 46/54 f/r weight, an aluminum LS1 or better engine weighs about the same as the stock 2.8L cast-iron V6), and can keep up with it.
The Fiero was originally pitched to GM as a small sports car with good power. I'm surprised the car was even made with all the politics against it. GM forced the car to use parts from other cars (GM scrap heap) and forced it to be a economical car. Back in '84 the 4-cyl was rated at over 40 mpg highway. Things gradually got better and it really wasn't until 1988 when they got things "partially" right (still needed a stronger engine). From what I heard the 1990 Fiero prototype was supposed to get a turbo-charged 2.9L V6 and it could beat corvettes.. In '88 the GM vendetta vs. the Fiero finally took completely control and cancelled the Fiero.
Personally I like the car because it is the "poor man's Ferrari/Lotus/etc". A couple days ago I parked next to a guy with a Lotus Esprit (2002 model) and he seemed to like my car (and I liked his), and they were very similiar in overall appearance. Now, the car doesn't come fast stock, but hell, for less than 10k I can stick in a SBC engine and beat many cars on the road (including my Camaro, Camaro is 3400 lbs with a 320 HP LS1 engine, a Fiero with the same engine or more would own it). So, for about 10% of the cost of a Lotus Esprit I can get something that looks almost the same, handles similiarly (Fiero is actually 46/54 f/r weight, an aluminum LS1 or better engine weighs about the same as the stock 2.8L cast-iron V6), and can keep up with it.
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
- 12,505
- 3
- 81
Naaah, noone could talk me down from buying my Fiero, I've owned one before and loved it, I'm super excited to get working on this one as well!
Do not let the masses get you down. Any vehicle that is 20 years old will have problems. Someone above said they like T/A's, if they have never had a problem i would be suprised. Even Toyota has had recalls on their vehicles.
As far as the Fiero, they are a fun car to drive and the sky is the limit. They are a near perfect 50/50 weight distribution. I have had my Fiero over 100 MPH out on M.I.S. and it did not flip (nice urban legend, I hear that if you drive 88 MPH in a DeLorean you can travel thru time)
For it's time, 1984 - 1988 a 140 HP V6 was a peppy engine. The 3.8 Liter in the same time frame had 150 HP. Mustangs were in the 150 - 190 HP range. The cars being made today are not comparable to a STOCK Fiero. I'd like to see the 4 door commuter car talked about above go at a Fiero with a 300 HP North Star in it. I think the Fiero would toast it!
What engine are you interested in? I have friends with the following engines in their Fiero
2.5L I4
2.8L V6
3.1L V6
3.4L V6
3.4L DOHC V6
3.8L Turbo
3.8L Series I Supercharged V6
3.8L Series II Supercharged V6
3.8L Series III Supercharged V6
4.9L V8 (Caddy)
4.9L V8 Turbo (Caddy)
5.0L V8 (small block chevy [SBC])
5.7L v8 (SBC)
Cadilliac North Star
As far as the Fiero, they are a fun car to drive and the sky is the limit. They are a near perfect 50/50 weight distribution. I have had my Fiero over 100 MPH out on M.I.S. and it did not flip (nice urban legend, I hear that if you drive 88 MPH in a DeLorean you can travel thru time
)For it's time, 1984 - 1988 a 140 HP V6 was a peppy engine. The 3.8 Liter in the same time frame had 150 HP. Mustangs were in the 150 - 190 HP range. The cars being made today are not comparable to a STOCK Fiero. I'd like to see the 4 door commuter car talked about above go at a Fiero with a 300 HP North Star in it. I think the Fiero would toast it!
What engine are you interested in? I have friends with the following engines in their Fiero
2.5L I4
2.8L V6
3.1L V6
3.4L V6
3.4L DOHC V6
3.8L Turbo
3.8L Series I Supercharged V6
3.8L Series II Supercharged V6
3.8L Series III Supercharged V6
4.9L V8 (Caddy)
4.9L V8 Turbo (Caddy)
5.0L V8 (small block chevy [SBC])
5.7L v8 (SBC)
Cadilliac North Star
Analog
Lifer
- Jan 7, 2002
- 12,755
- 3
- 0
Well, I have probably been involved with Fieros longer than anyone here. I hired into GM in 1982, and I saw my first Fiero at that time. I worked on the Fiero body panels as a co-op student, and I visited the plant at peak production in '83 and '85.
The Fiero was pitched to GM brass as a commuter car from its inception. I know, since I've talked with Hulki Aldikacti. Pontiac used that sell to get GM to buy into it. It then began a program of making it more of a sports car, but the brass at Chevy (read Corvette) division was very wary of this. I saw a turbocharged aluminum V6 proto (with an aluminum spaceframe) at the proving grounds back in '83 that could lift the front end off the ground from a standing start. That car, of course, would never make it.
The bad points of the Fiero come down to the bad points of any large organization, and none is bigger than GM. Politics and lack of funds made the Fiero team use the T-car (Chevette) front end for the Fiero, and the X-car rear end. Remember, the X-car (Citation) was a front wheel drive vehicle, so you basically have the complete front end of a Citation in the rear of the Fiero. Yes, it had rear tie-rods that were fixed! In fact, I once had to replace the rear tie-rods on my '84, and the car parts store thought I was an idiot when I asked for rear tie rods.
The Iron Puke 4 banger yielded a whopping 92 horses in '84, and linked with the 4-speed synchrosmash GM tranny, it made for an interesting indy pace car that year. The V6 didn't come until '85, but by then, the Fiero's reputation was already shot.
I saw the '89 Fiero that almost saw the light of day, it was to have the Olds 483 (Twin cam 2.3L) which is a high revving engine suited for the Fiero. That engine itself had its share of problems (another story). The body of the '89 was incredible. There are pics of it on the internet if you're interested.
In '88, Pontiac invested about $25MM in upgrades to the Fiero, including a new suspension (no more rear tierods!) and plans to put electric power steering (the Fiero never had power steering). I had a close friend design that system at Saginaw Steering.
If you're interested in a Fiero, there is really no other choice than an '88. They only built 21,000 that year, compared to more than 100,000 the first year. The only year they offered a Formula was that year as well. Just for the sake of this note, only 400 yellow Formulas were ever built. Being strictly a factory type, I don't like deviating from stock, so I'm a purist. The guys at Pontiac always wanted to make the Fiero more of a sports car, but remember, Roger Smith and Jim McDonald (top GM brass) were never sold on that idea. Ultimately, the quality problems from the first year, and the lack of sales in '88 killed this innovative car.
The Fiero does still live on in other GM cars. The idea of a space frame went on in the very popular Pontiac Transport series of mini-vans (they did also have plastic body panels). The JIT delivery systems pioneered at the Fiero plant changed GM's way of doing business. The end of the Fiero was a sad day for me, but hey, at one point I had three of them. A good friend of mine has 17!!!
Long live the P-car!
The Fiero was pitched to GM brass as a commuter car from its inception. I know, since I've talked with Hulki Aldikacti. Pontiac used that sell to get GM to buy into it. It then began a program of making it more of a sports car, but the brass at Chevy (read Corvette) division was very wary of this. I saw a turbocharged aluminum V6 proto (with an aluminum spaceframe) at the proving grounds back in '83 that could lift the front end off the ground from a standing start. That car, of course, would never make it.
The bad points of the Fiero come down to the bad points of any large organization, and none is bigger than GM. Politics and lack of funds made the Fiero team use the T-car (Chevette) front end for the Fiero, and the X-car rear end. Remember, the X-car (Citation) was a front wheel drive vehicle, so you basically have the complete front end of a Citation in the rear of the Fiero. Yes, it had rear tie-rods that were fixed! In fact, I once had to replace the rear tie-rods on my '84, and the car parts store thought I was an idiot when I asked for rear tie rods.
The Iron Puke 4 banger yielded a whopping 92 horses in '84, and linked with the 4-speed synchrosmash GM tranny, it made for an interesting indy pace car that year. The V6 didn't come until '85, but by then, the Fiero's reputation was already shot.
I saw the '89 Fiero that almost saw the light of day, it was to have the Olds 483 (Twin cam 2.3L) which is a high revving engine suited for the Fiero. That engine itself had its share of problems (another story). The body of the '89 was incredible. There are pics of it on the internet if you're interested.
In '88, Pontiac invested about $25MM in upgrades to the Fiero, including a new suspension (no more rear tierods!) and plans to put electric power steering (the Fiero never had power steering). I had a close friend design that system at Saginaw Steering.
If you're interested in a Fiero, there is really no other choice than an '88. They only built 21,000 that year, compared to more than 100,000 the first year. The only year they offered a Formula was that year as well. Just for the sake of this note, only 400 yellow Formulas were ever built. Being strictly a factory type, I don't like deviating from stock, so I'm a purist. The guys at Pontiac always wanted to make the Fiero more of a sports car, but remember, Roger Smith and Jim McDonald (top GM brass) were never sold on that idea. Ultimately, the quality problems from the first year, and the lack of sales in '88 killed this innovative car.
The Fiero does still live on in other GM cars. The idea of a space frame went on in the very popular Pontiac Transport series of mini-vans (they did also have plastic body panels). The JIT delivery systems pioneered at the Fiero plant changed GM's way of doing business. The end of the Fiero was a sad day for me, but hey, at one point I had three of them. A good friend of mine has 17!!!
Long live the P-car!
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,586
- 986
- 126
Originally posted by: Raiden256
I drove an 86GT for 10 years, and I gotta tell you, it was an experience. When the car was healthy, it was too fun to drive. The MPFI 2.8L V8 was downright zippy -- quick off the line and the auto always seemed to shift well. Plus the size of the car fit perfectly with my always-weaving style of driving.
Cruised perfectly at 80mph.. felt like it could just live there. Not the quietest car at that speed, but you've gotta remember that your ears are like 4-6 inches from the engine compartment.
The guy previously talked about 50/50 weight distribution, but I'd have to say my experience was that it was heavier in back -- definitely did a few inadvertent 360's around corners in the snowy years!
Over the years I did a few mods -- mostly interior but a few engine. The thing with these cars (*any* car this old?) is that you have to go into it with a willingness to get your hands dirty. Things will break, randomly stop working, act flaky etc., and if you take it to a shop every time you won't end up keeping the car. Best advice there is two things:
1) Get a factory service manual. Not haynes, not chiltons, but the original 4 billion page factory service manual from GM. Great diagrams and how to instructions for diagnostics and parts replacement. Worth its weight in gold (or at least the $80 or so they were going for a few years ago)
2) Get on the www.fiero.org mailing list, and also investigate Ed Parks' moderated list at yahoo (http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/FIERO/). These lists are the best resource you could have as a fiero owner. Literally, you have a question? Post it to the list and watch the answers come rolling in over the next few hours. I think the fiero.org list at one time was the most active car related list on the net -- back in the mid-late 90's that thing would generate about 100 messages a day, but it's slower now. Outlook rules are still a good thing...
All that said, I'm also one of the ones that's snobby about the fastback GT's. I hated the notchbacks! The fastback design was ahead of it's time, and looked pretty stylish IMHO. Right after I painted my car (nice and yellow) I ran into *many* people asking me what new model car that was. Should have seen their faces when I told them it was 10 years old!
Anyway, sorry to wax nostalgic, but I loved my old car. Had to sell it when I got the brand new '02 Maxima GLE optioned to the hilt -- no competition there! Talk about a car that's quick off the line!
Good luck!
I'd say this is a fairly honest and informative post! :beer:
Just out of curiousity, how much are they asking for this car?
Only thing I remember about them is that in high school me and three friends could steal one by each picking up a corner and carrying it off. We didn't actually keep any, it was just fun to move them around in the parking lot of the mall.
iamwiz82
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2001
- 30,772
- 13
- 81
Just a side note, JIT was never fully implemented at GM because a true JIT system means there is no stock, anywhere. The TierII makes the sub assembly, which is then shipped immediately to the TierI who puts it together with more sub assemblies, then it is shipped immediately to the OEM who puts it in the car ASAP.
I get irked whenever people scream JIT because it is never implemented correctly.
I was working with a person from DCX and they kept raving about their JIT system, and then he showed me pictures of their warehouse of component parts .
Analog
Lifer
- Jan 7, 2002
- 12,755
- 3
- 0
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Just a side note, JIT was never fully implemented at GM because a true JIT system means there is no stock, anywhere. The TierII makes the sub assembly, which is then shipped immediately to the TierI who puts it together with more sub assemblies, then it is shipped immediately to the OEM who puts it in the car ASAP.
I get irked whenever people scream JIT because it is never implemented correctly.
Well Wiz, you and I both know about GM (GMI etc
), but in the early 80s, GM had no clue about JIT, and it was a crash course. Back then, die changes in the press plants took a week!We called JIT at our facility "Just Too Late"...
DivideBYZero
Lifer
- May 18, 2001
- 24,117
- 2
- 0
I have to admit to seeing one of these in the UK years ago and thinking it looked cool.
This is a nice example and looks very F355 to me.
This is a nice example and looks very F355 to me.
iamwiz82
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2001
- 30,772
- 13
- 81
Originally posted by: yellowfiero
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Just a side note, JIT was never fully implemented at GM because a true JIT system means there is no stock, anywhere. The TierII makes the sub assembly, which is then shipped immediately to the TierI who puts it together with more sub assemblies, then it is shipped immediately to the OEM who puts it in the car ASAP.
I get irked whenever people scream JIT because it is never implemented correctly.
Well Wiz, you and I both know about GM (GMI etc
We called JIT at our facility "Just Too Late"...
At least we are free now!
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 23K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter