Pondering returning this card...see why inside!

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Tullphan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2001
3,507
5
81
3DVantage score
Bought this MSI Hawk as an open box. I still have a couple of days before I can return it.
I realize the 3DMark Vantage is synthetic, but I (like many others) need that epeen factor.
One thing about that link...it's showing my core as 780 & memory as 1800, but MSI Afterburner is showing 890/1600.
I figured i'd get a better score even though I am running a Phenom II.
Can I do better than what I paid (~$156)?
Thoughts?
 
toyota

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
why the heck would you upgrade from a 5830 to a gtx460 anyway? you are talking like 15-20% difference in performance.
 
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happy medium

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
Download the latest version of Afterburner.
Give the card a little voltage (1.087v) set the slider on 880 core 2000 memory, then go a little higher on the core and test it again, rinse and repeat.

That should make your card about 35% faster then a 5830. Sell the 5830 for ~ 100$
and enjoy your 56$ upgrade.
 
toyota

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
happy medium said:
Download the latest version of Afterburner.
Give the card a little voltage (1.087v) set the slider on 880 core 2000 memory, then go a little higher on the core and test it again, rinse and repeat.

That should make your card about 35% faster then a 5830. Sell the 5830 for ~ 100$
and enjoy your 56$ upgrade.
Click to expand...
well his 5830 is oced too so maybe closer to 25% if he can even get the 460 that high. honestly he should have never bought the gtx460 in the first place.
 
happy medium

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
He has a Hawk card , it should overclock close to 5870 speeds (900 core), at 850 core he is at 6870 speeds. In any event a 25% boost is worth 56$ to me.

HD6800-OC-56.jpg
 
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toyota

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
mosox said:
The cheapest HD 6870 is $180 AR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161349
Click to expand...
well the 6870 does not have great ocing headroom and is only about 20% faster than a stock gtx460. overclock both the gtx460 and 6870 to their typical max and the 6870 is less than 5% better. thats hardly worth the trouble of returning the gtx460. coming from an overclocked 5830; the 6950, gtx570 or maybe gtx560 are the lowest cards he should consider IMO.
 
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A

Arkadrel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2010
3,681
2
0
Overclocked 5830 -> factory overclocked 460 running at its stock speeds?

duh your not seeing much of any differnce in performance, its like a side grade at that point.

Try overclocking the 460 to the limits of what it can do stable and see if u can squeeze abit more out of it. If that doesnt give enough... yeah just a bad buy going from a 5830->460.
 
T

Tullphan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2001
3,507
5
81
toyota said:
well his 5830 is oced too so maybe closer to 25% if he can even get the 460 that high. honestly he should have never bought the gtx460 in the first place.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, mommy. :rolleyes:

Arkadrel said:
Overclocked 5830 -> factory overclocked 460 running at its stock speeds?

duh your not seeing much of any differnce in performance, its like a side grade at that point.

Try overclocking the 460 to the limits of what it can do stable and see if u can squeeze abit more out of it. If that doesnt give enough... yeah just a bad buy going from a 5830->460.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I tried that...wasn't much more difference. 5830 3DVantage scores w/unsupported (Catalyst 11.3) driver
I'm still trying to figure out why the link I posted for the scores showed a different core clock than what Afterburner & GPU-z was showing.
I guess I really need to decide if the extra $40 I spent over the 5830 is worth it for a card that has a smaller size, slightly faster speeds & not so noisy.

*EDIT*
 
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9

96Firebird

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 2010
5,743
340
126
Skurge said:
A 560 isnt that much faster than a 460 at the same clocks. I would say he get a 6950 or a 570. The 570 being just under $300 AR. There are some 6950 1GBs for $210 if you don't care about the extra memory.
Click to expand...

LOL at this post. Essentially, a 560Ti = a 6950. Yet, a 560Ti isn't good enough, and a 6950 is.

:awe:
 
Patrick Wolf

Patrick Wolf

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2005
2,443
0
0
I got P17254 w/ the same card @ stock speeds, different CPU (see sig). So I'd look into upgrading that. 3DMark does like fast CPu's.
 
bryanW1995

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
11,144
32
91
manimal said:
frys has a 480gtx for 299 zotac I believe. Hows that for a deal?
Click to expand...

not bad, but 570's can be had around that price AR and they are cooler/less power hungry. also, 6970 is generally faster, especially at higher res, and is only a few $$ more.
 
Skurge

Skurge

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2009
5,195
1
71
96Firebird said:
LOL at this post. Essentially, a 560Ti = a 6950. Yet, a 560Ti isn't good enough, and a 6950 is.

:awe:
Click to expand...

I don't know if you are trying to bait me or not, but I'll explain my reasoning.

Im not sure why its so funny. The OP clearly overclocks his cards as far as they would go. In that case the 560 isnt good enough. It doesnt have as much headroom as a 6950 and I balieve (This is just an opinion, not trying to pass it off as fact) that because the 6950 is quite a bit faster in more demanding games I think its a better buy at the same price as its faster at stock and as the potential to unlock.

Im sure a lot of people would agree that 460 to 560 is not much of an upgrade. Personaly I think he should get nothing less than a 570, but $300 might be too much for him so I suggested the 1gb 6950 that is a lot cheaper.
 
9

96Firebird

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 2010
5,743
340
126
I wasn't trying to bait you, your post just made no sense to me. It still doesn't really make sense, but at least you explained that you think "the 6950 is quite a bit faster in more demanding games I think its a better buy at the same price as its faster at stock and as the potential to unlock." I disagree, but your post makes more sense now. However, your last sentence I also don't agree with. You say he should only upgrade to a 570 minimum, but if he doesn't want to spend that much then upgrading to a 6950 1GB (which is on par with 560Ti, again, and can't be unlocked like you said above) is fine. Kinda contradicting.
 
happy medium

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
I think we should throw games out the window, he seems like he just wants a high 3d advantage score @1280x1024.

Which cards do better in that bench ? Nvidia or AMD. I'm not sure.
 
notty22

notty22

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2010
3,375
0
0
Vantage with ppu on , favors Nvidia cards. A highly o/c gtx 460 around 950 comes close to a 'stock' gtx 480 score. Linus has a video on youtube doing just that with a Hawk gtx 460.

Here is one I did when I had just 1 460, card, I pushed my cpu for the bench.
anothernewhighvantage26063driver-Caay.png
 
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Skurge

Skurge

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2009
5,195
1
71
96Firebird said:
I wasn't trying to bait you, your post just made no sense to me. It still doesn't really make sense, but at least you explained that you think "the 6950 is quite a bit faster in more demanding games I think its a better buy at the same price as its faster at stock and as the potential to unlock." I disagree, but your post makes more sense now. However, your last sentence I also don't agree with. You say he should only upgrade to a 570 minimum, but if he doesn't want to spend that much then upgrading to a 6950 1GB (which is on par with 560Ti, again, and can't be unlocked like you said above) is fine. Kinda contradicting.
Click to expand...

Personaly I don't think the 560 is a great card, I don't know, maybe its cause all the other fermi cards were huge improvements over the previous cards and the 560 seems to have inconsistant performance and uses more power than the cards around it and has les headroom than the 460. The 1gb version is on par with the 560 except at higher resolutions, but we don't know what res he runs. So im inclined to go with the card that does better at higher res.
 
M

mosox

Senior member
Oct 22, 2010
434
0
0
Techpowerup like Anand and many others use in their reviews a very TWIMTBP heavy game selection. If an AMD card is 3-5% slower than the Nvidia competitor card in the review then it's actually 3-5% faster in the real world, many of those TWIMTBP games have nothing to do with the most popular games lists. Techpowerup also has a habit of consistently using old drivers for AMD.

Who wants his 560Ti to be on par or even better than the HD 6950 should stick mainly to the TWIMTBP games.
 
Patrick Wolf

Patrick Wolf

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2005
2,443
0
0
mosox said:
Techpowerup like Anand and many others use in their reviews a very TWIMTBP heavy game selection. If an AMD card is 3-5% slower than the Nvidia competitor card in the review then it's actually 3-5% faster in the real world, many of those TWIMTBP games have nothing to do with the most popular games lists. Techpowerup also has a habit of consistently using old drivers for AMD.

Who wants his 560Ti to be on par or even better than the HD 6950 should stick mainly to the TWIMTBP games.
Click to expand...

That creates the assumption that AMD is faster for every non-TWIMTBP game. Your logic is ridiculous.
 
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