Pollster John Zogby: "Kerry will win."

MonstaThrilla

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2000
1,652
0
0
That's a bold statement

The Election Is Kerry?s To Lose
By John Zogby

I have made a career of taking bungee jumps in my election calls. Sometimes I haven?t had a helmet and I have gotten a little scratched. But here is my jump for 2004: John Kerry will win the election.

Have you recovered from the shock? Is this guy nuts? Kerry?s performance of late has hardly been inspiring and polls show that most Americans have no sense of where he really stands on the key issues that matter most to them. Regardless, I still think that he will win. And if he doesn?t, it will be because he blew it. There are four major reasons for my assertion:

First, my most recent poll (April 12-15) shows bad re-election numbers for an incumbent President. Senator Kerry is leading 47% to 44% in a two-way race, and the candidates are tied at 45% in the three-way race with Ralph Nader. Significantly, only 44% feel that the country is headed in the right direction and only 43% believe that President Bush deserves to be re-elected ? compared with 51% who say it is time for someone new.

In that same poll, Kerry leads by 17 points in the Blue States that voted for Al Gore in 2000, while Bush leads by only 10 points in the Red States that he won four years ago.

Second, there are very few undecided voters for this early in a campaign. Historically, the majority of undecideds break to the challenger against an incumbent. The reasons are not hard to understand: voters have probably made a judgment about the better-known incumbent and are looking for an alternative.

Third, the economy is still the top issue for voters ? 30% cite it. While the war in Iraq had been only noted by 11% as the top issue in March, it jumped to 20% in our April poll as a result of bad war news dominating the news agenda. The third issue is the war on terrorism. Among those who cited the economy, Kerry leads the President 54% to 35%. Among those citing the war in Iraq, Kerry?s lead is 57% to 36%. This, of course, is balanced by the 64% to 30% margin that the President holds over Kerry on fighting the war on terrorism. These top issues are not likely to go away. And arguably, there is greater and growing intensity on the part of those who oppose and want to defeat Bush.

The President?s problem is further compounded by the fact that he is now at the mercy of situations that are out of his control. While the economy is improving, voters historically do not look at indicators that measure trillions and billions of dollars. Instead, their focus is on hundreds and thousands of dollars. In this regard, there is less concern for increases in productivity and gross domestic product and more regard for growth in jobs and maintaining of health benefits. Just 12 years ago, the economy had begun its turnaround in the fourth quarter of 1991 and was in full recovery by spring 1992 ? yet voters gave the President?s father only 38% of the vote because it was all about ?the economy, stupid.?

The same holds true for Iraq. Will the United States actually be able to leave by June 30? Will Iraq be better off by then? Will the US be able to transfer power to a legitimate and unifying authority? Will the lives lost by the US and its allies be judged as the worth the final product? It is difficult to see how the President grabs control of this situation.

Finally, if history is any guide, Senator Kerry is a good closer. Something happens to him in the closing weeks of campaigns (that obviously is not happening now!). We have clearly seen that pattern in his 1996 victory over Governor Bill Weld for the Senate in Massachusetts and more recently in the 2004 Democratic primaries. All through 2003, Kerry?s campaign lacked a focused message. He tends to be a nuanced candidate: thoughtful, briefed, and too willing to discuss a range of possible positions on every issue. It is often hard to determine where he actually stands. In a presidential campaign, if a candidate can?t spell it out in a bumper sticker, he will have trouble grabbing the attention of voters. By early 2004, as Democratic voters in Iowa and elsewhere concluded that President Bush could be defeated, they found Governor Howard Dean?s message to be too hot and began to give Kerry another look. Kerry came on strong with the simplest messages: ?I?m a veteran?, ?I have the experience?, and ?I can win?. His timing caused him to come on strong at the perfect time. As one of his former Vietnam War colleagues told a television correspondent in Iowa: ?John always knows when his homework is due.?
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
It sure isn't as BOLD as this one... Zogby cannot beat DIEBOLD and neither can the Electoral Commission or even the Florida Supreme Court ;)


CEO of Diebold in as much Guarantees Bush WIN

The head of a company vying to sell voting machines in Ohio told Republicans in a recent fund-raising letter that he is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."

http://reviews-zdnet.com.com/5208-6118-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=334&messageID=8761&start=61
 

MonstaThrilla

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2000
1,652
0
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Pssttt...

CkG

So all posts about poll numbers reflecting negatively on Bush must be contained to one six-day old thread? My bad. Didn't get the memo. I know how much it pains you to see such things...
 

rickn

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
7,064
0
0
well, several of my family members are die hard republicans, and they arent going to vote for Bush. I've been registered republican since I was 18yrs old, and I voted for Clinton TWICE, and I voted for Gore

Mickey Mouse is public domain, I may write him in.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Siddhartha
What if they capture bin Laden three weeks before the election?

Friend of mine and I were just talking about that. He thinks Bush knows where he is and is waiting until just before the election to nab him and parade him around.

Personally, I think that's a crock and, besides, it seems bin Laden isn't necessarily the head of the beast anymore.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: MonstaThrilla
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Pssttt...

CkG

So all posts about poll numbers reflecting negatively on Bush must be contained to one six-day old thread? My bad. Didn't get the memo. I know how much it pains you to see such things...

No, it's just that there was an active thread already talking about this exact thing.

Sorry for pointing it out...sheesh :roll:

CkG
 

bozack

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2000
7,913
12
81
Originally posted by: rickn
well, several of my family members are die hard republicans, and they arent going to vote for Bush. I've been registered republican since I was 18yrs old, and I voted for Clinton TWICE, and I voted for Gore

Mickey Mouse is public domain, I may write him in.

why register to vote republican if you clearly favor democrat candidates...and gore...pbbbft, even with people bitching about Bush I am still glad that robot didn't make it.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: bozack
Originally posted by: rickn
well, several of my family members are die hard republicans, and they arent going to vote for Bush. I've been registered republican since I was 18yrs old, and I voted for Clinton TWICE, and I voted for Gore

Mickey Mouse is public domain, I may write him in.

why register to vote republican if you clearly favor democrat candidates...and gore...pbbbft, even with people bitching about Bush I am still glad that robot didn't make it.

heh...he'd have had the keys to our missiles put away in that "lock box."
 

Macro2

Diamond Member
May 20, 2000
4,874
0
0
First of all let me say that Zogby has been pretty accurate pollwise but we are 6 months away...
Kerry may well have peaked.
I wasn't going to vote for Bush but when I see what the liberal vermin are doing to the country I may have no choice.

interestingly, Zogby is of Arab descent. Most likely a Muslim. Dunno of this is an influence on his statements of not.

Mac
 

rickn

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
7,064
0
0
Originally posted by: bozack
Originally posted by: rickn
well, several of my family members are die hard republicans, and they arent going to vote for Bush. I've been registered republican since I was 18yrs old, and I voted for Clinton TWICE, and I voted for Gore

Mickey Mouse is public domain, I may write him in.

why register to vote republican if you clearly favor democrat candidates...and gore...pbbbft, even with people bitching about Bush I am still glad that robot didn't make it.

Because, Reagan was a great president. I believe in republican ideals, less government, more responsibility to the people. And after the first Bush, read my lips no new taxes, there was no way on gods green earth I'd vote for that POS
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
67
91
Originally posted by: Siddhartha
What if they capture bin Laden three weeks before the election?

I think at this point his capture would be more of a curiosity than anything. Saddam Hussein's capture was off the front page within a few days, and the start of OIF was closer in time than OEF. I would be delighted to see bin Laden caught, but I wouldn't feel any safer for it.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: rickn
well, several of my family members are die hard republicans, and they arent going to vote for Bush. I've been registered republican since I was 18yrs old, and I voted for Clinton TWICE, and I voted for Gore

Mickey Mouse is public domain, I may write him in.

Bush is'nt a republican that's why. He's a little fascist sprinkled in with big governement socialist. We had this discussion before. He met 18/20 fascist guildlines. Cato calls him a big governemnt liberal. But Clinton was no better on either front, I'm disappointed you voted for him. The last boarderline good pres was Reagan.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,766
615
126
Originally posted by: rickn
Originally posted by: bozack
Originally posted by: rickn
well, several of my family members are die hard republicans, and they arent going to vote for Bush. I've been registered republican since I was 18yrs old, and I voted for Clinton TWICE, and I voted for Gore

Mickey Mouse is public domain, I may write him in.

why register to vote republican if you clearly favor democrat candidates...and gore...pbbbft, even with people bitching about Bush I am still glad that robot didn't make it.

Because, Reagan was a great president. I believe in republican ideals, less government, more responsibility to the people. And after the first Bush, read my lips no new taxes, there was no way on gods green earth I'd vote for that POS

I believe in most republican ideals. Its to bad the republicans in office don't. They should change their party, or change the definition of republican.
 

EXman

Lifer
Jul 12, 2001
20,079
15
81
Originally posted by: MonstaThrilla
That's a bold statement

The Election Is Kerry?s To Lose
By John Zogby

I have made a career of taking bungee jumps in my election calls. Sometimes I haven?t had a helmet and I have gotten a little scratched. But here is my jump for 2004: John Kerry will win the election.

Have you recovered from the shock? Is this guy nuts? Kerry?s performance of late has hardly been inspiring and polls show that most Americans have no sense of where he really stands on the key issues that matter most to them. Regardless, I still think that he will win. And if he doesn?t, it will be because he blew it. There are four major reasons for my assertion:

First, my most recent poll (April 12-15) shows bad re-election numbers for an incumbent President. Senator Kerry is leading 47% to 44% in a two-way race, and the candidates are tied at 45% in the three-way race with Ralph Nader. Significantly, only 44% feel that the country is headed in the right direction and only 43% believe that President Bush deserves to be re-elected ? compared with 51% who say it is time for someone new.

In that same poll, Kerry leads by 17 points in the Blue States that voted for Al Gore in 2000, while Bush leads by only 10 points in the Red States that he won four years ago.

Second, there are very few undecided voters for this early in a campaign. Historically, the majority of undecideds break to the challenger against an incumbent. The reasons are not hard to understand: voters have probably made a judgment about the better-known incumbent and are looking for an alternative.

Third, the economy is still the top issue for voters ? 30% cite it. While the war in Iraq had been only noted by 11% as the top issue in March, it jumped to 20% in our April poll as a result of bad war news dominating the news agenda. The third issue is the war on terrorism. Among those who cited the economy, Kerry leads the President 54% to 35%. Among those citing the war in Iraq, Kerry?s lead is 57% to 36%. This, of course, is balanced by the 64% to 30% margin that the President holds over Kerry on fighting the war on terrorism. These top issues are not likely to go away. And arguably, there is greater and growing intensity on the part of those who oppose and want to defeat Bush.

The President?s problem is further compounded by the fact that he is now at the mercy of situations that are out of his control. While the economy is improving, voters historically do not look at indicators that measure trillions and billions of dollars. Instead, their focus is on hundreds and thousands of dollars. In this regard, there is less concern for increases in productivity and gross domestic product and more regard for growth in jobs and maintaining of health benefits. Just 12 years ago, the economy had begun its turnaround in the fourth quarter of 1991 and was in full recovery by spring 1992 ? yet voters gave the President?s father only 38% of the vote because it was all about ?the economy, stupid.?

The same holds true for Iraq. Will the United States actually be able to leave by June 30? Will Iraq be better off by then? Will the US be able to transfer power to a legitimate and unifying authority? Will the lives lost by the US and its allies be judged as the worth the final product? It is difficult to see how the President grabs control of this situation.

Finally, if history is any guide, Senator Kerry is a good closer. Something happens to him in the closing weeks of campaigns (that obviously is not happening now!). We have clearly seen that pattern in his 1996 victory over Governor Bill Weld for the Senate in Massachusetts and more recently in the 2004 Democratic primaries. All through 2003, Kerry?s campaign lacked a focused message. He tends to be a nuanced candidate: thoughtful, briefed, and too willing to discuss a range of possible positions on every issue. It is often hard to determine where he actually stands. In a presidential campaign, if a candidate can?t spell it out in a bumper sticker, he will have trouble grabbing the attention of voters. By early 2004, as Democratic voters in Iowa and elsewhere concluded that President Bush could be defeated, they found Governor Howard Dean?s message to be too hot and began to give Kerry another look. Kerry came on strong with the simplest messages: ?I?m a veteran?, ?I have the experience?, and ?I can win?. His timing caused him to come on strong at the perfect time. As one of his former Vietnam War colleagues told a television correspondent in Iowa: ?John always knows when his homework is due.?

it is a 50/50 guess how bold is that? :roll:

He is a veteran that all the Vets I know HATE!
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,505
3
81
Originally posted by: Macro2
First of all let me say that Zogby has been pretty accurate pollwise but we are 6 months away...
Kerry may well have peaked.
I wasn't going to vote for Bush but when I see what the liberal vermin are doing to the country I may have no choice.

interestingly, Zogby is of Arab descent. Most likely a Muslim. Dunno of this is an influence on his statements of not.

Mac

What are they doing to the country?
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Originally posted by: conjur
<shrug>

Bush is a weasel draft-dodger that everyone I know hates.

Did you like Clinton?

He is a draft-dodging weasel, too.

"I didn't inhale."

Yeah......right.

But, I think he was a decent President. Far better than the puppet in the White House now.
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
Originally posted by: Siddhartha
Originally posted by: Macro2
First of all let me say that Zogby has been pretty accurate pollwise but we are 6 months away...
Kerry may well have peaked.
I wasn't going to vote for Bush but when I see what the liberal vermin are doing to the country I may have no choice.

interestingly, Zogby is of Arab descent. Most likely a Muslim. Dunno of this is an influence on his statements of not.

Mac

What are they doing to the country?

ruining it, of course.

What else have <insert political group opposed to your beliefs> ever done?
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
0
Why is Zogby even bothering to go there? Must have been a slow day for him....

Way too much time left in this game. We aren't even at half-time yet and I haven't bought my once every four year's hot dog with mustard or even called my bookie in Las Vegas.

His reasons are pretty sound, but so what? The transition could go well in Iraq and troops could start coming home and that stupid little thing called the STOCK MARKET, which I'm hating every day, might bounce back before the election, or Kerry might pick Hillary, or Kerry might have to have bypass surgery because he swallowed one of his own lies and couldn't breathe for 15 minutes, or the Democratic National Convention might get crazy (er, well, we know it will), or some ex-Navy guy might sign another one of those petitions but this time claiming Kerry had sex with a live underage girl or a dead boy, or you name it!

Hey, Bush is going to win unless the stock market goes under 9500. You heard it here first and my prediction is much shorter and sweeter than Zogby's. :)

-Robert
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
67
91
Originally posted by: chess9
Why is Zogby even bothering to go there? Must have been a slow day for him....

Way too much time left in this game. We aren't even at half-time yet and I haven't bought my once every four year's hot dog with mustard or even called my bookie in Las Vegas.

His reasons are pretty sound, but so what? The transition could go well in Iraq and troops could start coming home and that stupid little thing called the STOCK MARKET, which I'm hating every day, might bounce back before the election, or Kerry might pick Hillary, or Kerry might have to have bypass surgery because he swallowed one of his own lies and couldn't breathe for 15 minutes, or the Democratic National Convention might get crazy (er, well, we know it will), or some ex-Navy guy might sign another one of those petitions but this time claiming Kerry had sex with a live underage girl or a dead boy, or you name it!

Hey, Bush is going to win unless the stock market goes under 9500. You heard it here first and my prediction is much shorter and sweeter than Zogby's. :)

-Robert

I'll make a mental note of it, and I guess we'll see. Zogby's methodology is interesting and persuasive, but even an experienced pollster is not a psychic, and weird things happen in elections.

For my part, I tend to think the situation vis a vis Iraq will get a lot worse before it gets better. The fact that we suffered 130+ casualties in April alone, more than a year after declaring victory, and that the total number of US/coalition casualties is now more than twice what we suffered in the first Gulf War, are strong indicators that we will continue to suffer losses, since we will not be in a position to pull out even after the changeover at the end of June (a date that presently seems improbably optimistic). The prisoner abuse scandal has already had a drastic impact on the polls in terms of their opinions of the war, and I have to wonder whether it will further weaken Americans' stomachs toward our continued presence there.

I tend to think that this will have a collateral effect on the markets, and hence on the election. Regardless, only time will tell . . .