POLLs: Israel vs Lebanon justified? and more questions

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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,255
136
Originally posted by: blackllotus
Alright, what idiots voted "yes" for "Was Hezbollah Justified in attacking, and abducting Israeli soldiers?"?


Probably the same idoits that think Israel doesn't have a right to exist
 

smack Down

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2005
4,507
0
0
Originally posted by: Zorba
Originally posted by: blackllotus
Alright, what idiots voted "yes" for "Was Hezbollah Justified in attacking, and abducting Israeli soldiers?"?


Probably the same idoits that think Israel doesn't have a right to exist

How come israel is justified in killing hundreds of people to get 2 soldiers back captured in war but Hezbollah isn't justified when it captures two people and kills 8 to get back hundreds of people israel is hoding?
 

Pacemaker

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2001
1,184
2
0
Originally posted by: smack Down
Originally posted by: Zorba
Originally posted by: blackllotus
Alright, what idiots voted "yes" for "Was Hezbollah Justified in attacking, and abducting Israeli soldiers?"?


Probably the same idoits that think Israel doesn't have a right to exist

How come israel is justified in killing hundreds of people to get 2 soldiers back captured in war but Hezbollah isn't justified when it captures two people and kills 8 to get back hundreds of people israel is hoding?

Very good point. Also, why is Israel allowed to bomb a country who's government has done NOTHING to them. I'm sure if some crazy from Canada shot a rocket into America and kidnapped an American serviceman that America would ask CANADA to fix it. America would not go about destroying Canada?s entire infrastructure.

BTW the Lebanese Government is Democratically elected, and from what I hear was at one point sympathetic to the Israeli plight, but now they have said basically if you invade we will join Hezbollah in defending our country.
 

sonoma1993

Diamond Member
May 31, 2004
3,413
21
81
How do we know our country is supporting the right country. I know our country currently support Israel in pretty much everything we do. Should we be supporting lebanon in this conflict?
 

libs0n

Member
May 16, 2005
197
0
76
Originally posted by: Doboji
I don't think you get it... at this point Israel would rather lose these 2 soldiers than negotiate a prisoner swap. Because if they exchange for these soldiers it more than likely seals the fate for other kidnapees to come.

I also disagree that there is no military solution... I think Hezbollah can and will be subdued IF Israel is given long enough. When this situation is all said and done I think there will be either lebanese, international, or Israeli forces in southern Lebanon, and not Hezbollah.

Later on in the thread you marvel at the relatively low casualties, and then assume that the Lebanese see it your way and aren't polarized against Israel. The way I see it, even one unjust death is one too many when you're intent is to bring the other side to your point of view, in this case that they should be a party to the removal of Hizballah. To the Lebanese mind's eye, which now lives in constant terror of being blown to bits, or perhaps now has a death of a loved one or acquaintance or countrymen to contend with as well as the destruction of their country, Israel is now the enemy and they will rally around those who fight the enemy. That goes doubly so for Southern Lebanon, which is essentially a Hizballah proto-state. See Algiers, Vietnam, Lebanon, Iraq, for how this sort of situation tends to play out. This Israeli incursion will only strengthen support for Hizballah and seal the determination of the Lebanese people against Israel.

Hisballah will protect those two soldiers at all costs. Barring an accident, they'll still be there when Israel gets tired of its pointless war and comes around.
 

coolkatz321

Senior member
Jul 10, 2005
447
0
0
I want to know who the morons are that said Hezbollah had a right to abduct the Israeli soldiers. You people are very, very sick.
 

smack Down

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2005
4,507
0
0
Originally posted by: coolkatz321
I want to know who the morons are that said Hezbollah had a right to abduct the Israeli soldiers. You people are very, very sick.

How come israel is justified in killing hundreds of people to get 2 soldiers back captured in war but Hezbollah isn't justified when it captures two people and kills 8 to get back hundreds of people israel is hoding?
 

judasmachine

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2002
8,515
3
81
I don't think Israel should exist as a "Jewish" state. Theocracy is a bad idea all around. I know I'm probably reading too much into that...
 

envy me

Golden Member
Nov 5, 2005
1,000
0
0
Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Originally posted by: Meuge
I don't know why you started this thread Doboji... I've learned long ago that you can't change antisemites... the only way to convince them is to but a bullet through the base of their brains.


That's way overboard. See you in a month!

Good to see that this fanatic got what he deserves

:thumbsup::thumbsup: for the mod.

One could argue the mod is an antisemite for banning him :laugh:
 
Aug 14, 2001
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Originally posted by: magomago
I answered all but this:
"Does the state of Israel have the right to exist as a Jewish State?"

Israel will exist as a state regardless. No way to get away from that. But to state that it must be a JEWISH state is borderline racist simply because you state that someone HAS to be of a specific religion to live there.
That idea immediately excludes any Non Jew of citizenship who lives there. Doesn't matter if that family lived on that land for hundreds of years, if Israel takes that land they are screwed.
Furthermore, by exsting just as a "Jewish State"...what about the people who will get taken in as Israel ultimately takes in more land? Eject them? Tell them good bye? "Sorry, not a Jew, don't let the door hit you on the way out!"

If many Jews live in Isreal then they will always have a strong prescense...but to be "fearful" of the Non Jews, and to want to imply to exclude them is a dangerous idea...

Israel will be here for a loong time...but it has no right to exist soley as a "jewish state" because it will ultimately deny the rights of others.

I agree. No country has some sort of inherent right to exist as a religious state.
 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
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Originally posted by: Aisengard
Israel is a Jewish state in spirit, much like America is a Christian country, and Iraq is Muslim. There are many non-Jews living in Israel at the moment.

I think the question should probably be reworded, but I don't know of any country that forces you to convert to its religion to become a citizen.

No, Israel's government is far more religious. It has specific religious laws, practices, and discrimination.
 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
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Originally posted by: Pacemaker
Originally posted by: smack Down
Originally posted by: Zorba
Originally posted by: blackllotus
Alright, what idiots voted "yes" for "Was Hezbollah Justified in attacking, and abducting Israeli soldiers?"?


Probably the same idoits that think Israel doesn't have a right to exist

How come israel is justified in killing hundreds of people to get 2 soldiers back captured in war but Hezbollah isn't justified when it captures two people and kills 8 to get back hundreds of people israel is hoding?

Very good point. Also, why is Israel allowed to bomb a country who's government has done NOTHING to them. I'm sure if some crazy from Canada shot a rocket into America and kidnapped an American serviceman that America would ask CANADA to fix it. America would not go about destroying Canada?s entire infrastructure.

BTW the Lebanese Government is Democratically elected, and from what I hear was at one point sympathetic to the Israeli plight, but now they have said basically if you invade we will join Hezbollah in defending our country.

If the Canadian government was essentially allowing a group that had 20% control of the government to launch rocket attacks in the US, the US would invade and conquer Canada in 30 minutes.
 

Islamistani

Member
Jul 5, 2006
31
0
0
Originally posted by: smack Down
Originally posted by: Zorba
Originally posted by: blackllotus
Alright, what idiots voted "yes" for "Was Hezbollah Justified in attacking, and abducting Israeli soldiers?"?


Probably the same idoits that think Israel doesn't have a right to exist

How come israel is justified in killing hundreds of people to get 2 soldiers back captured in war but Hezbollah isn't justified when it captures two people and kills 8 to get back hundreds of people israel is hoding?

Excellent point. Lets also not forget the countless murders by Israel such as the 8 innocent dead on the beach before this violence broke out. Double standards and hypocrisy rife amongst people. Call both IDF and Hezbollah terrorist outfits or give both the right to fight for protection.
 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
0
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Originally posted by: Islamistani
Originally posted by: smack Down
Originally posted by: Zorba
Originally posted by: blackllotus
Alright, what idiots voted "yes" for "Was Hezbollah Justified in attacking, and abducting Israeli soldiers?"?


Probably the same idoits that think Israel doesn't have a right to exist

How come israel is justified in killing hundreds of people to get 2 soldiers back captured in war but Hezbollah isn't justified when it captures two people and kills 8 to get back hundreds of people israel is hoding?

Excellent point. Lets also not forget the countless murders by Israel such as the 8 innocent dead on the beach before this violence broke out. Double standards and hypocrisy rife amongst people. Call both IDF and Hezbollah terrorist outfits or give both the right to fight for protection.

I don't think that people usually call governments and such 'terrorists'. I don't think most people refer to, say, most of the Middle Eastern governments as 'terrorists' even though they are all mostly bad. In addition, people also seem to refer to deliberately targetting civilians.
 

Polish3d

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2005
5,500
0
0
Originally posted by: novon
The US is already involved. They are to Israel what Iran is to Hezbollah.

This is the dumbest post I have read on here since the last time I said "this is the dumbest post I have read on here." Which was awhile back.
 

Aisengard

Golden Member
Feb 25, 2005
1,558
0
76
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Israel is a Jewish state in spirit, much like America is a Christian country, and Iraq is Muslim. There are many non-Jews living in Israel at the moment.

I think the question should probably be reworded, but I don't know of any country that forces you to convert to its religion to become a citizen.

No, Israel's government is far more religious. It has specific religious laws, practices, and discrimination.

I'm not saying they don't, but what are they?

From what I've read, Israel is a democratic republic, and has a kind of constitution that is decidedly non-religious.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,701
6,257
126
Started to vote, but after 2 decided to scew it(takes too long between each submit).

1) Umm, well that's the wrong question. Attack Lebanon, No. Attack Hezzbolah, thus attack targets within Lebanon, Yes.

2) No

3) Too much. Not that hey are too harsh on Hezzbolah, but they are being too harsh on Lebanon.

4) Probably

5) It already is. It's involvement should be different than what it is though.

6) sure

7) F*** no

8) Anyone seriously considering it should be locked in a padded cell
 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
0
0
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Israel is a Jewish state in spirit, much like America is a Christian country, and Iraq is Muslim. There are many non-Jews living in Israel at the moment.

I think the question should probably be reworded, but I don't know of any country that forces you to convert to its religion to become a citizen.

No, Israel's government is far more religious. It has specific religious laws, practices, and discrimination.

I'm not saying they don't, but what are they?

From what I've read, Israel is a democratic republic, and has a kind of constitution that is decidedly non-religious.

How about that a person with a specific religion can come to the country easily just because of his religion?

Hell, they have a religious symbol on their flag.
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
Originally posted by: Frackal
Originally posted by: novon
The US is already involved. They are to Israel what Iran is to Hezbollah.

This is the dumbest post I have read on here since the last time I said "this is the dumbest post I have read on here." Which was awhile back.

Heh, yeap that sure is dumb. The support Hezbollah got from Iran is nothing like the support Israel got from the US.

US sold Israel 98 F-15 and 237 F-16 for example, between 1994 and 2001. Iran gave Hezbollah what, couple of hundred low quality rocket launchers that can't even shoot straight?
 

Aisengard

Golden Member
Feb 25, 2005
1,558
0
76
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Israel is a Jewish state in spirit, much like America is a Christian country, and Iraq is Muslim. There are many non-Jews living in Israel at the moment.

I think the question should probably be reworded, but I don't know of any country that forces you to convert to its religion to become a citizen.

No, Israel's government is far more religious. It has specific religious laws, practices, and discrimination.

I'm not saying they don't, but what are they?

From what I've read, Israel is a democratic republic, and has a kind of constitution that is decidedly non-religious.

How about that a person with a specific religion can come to the country easily just because of his religion?

Hell, they have a religious symbol on their flag.


If that's all you have, that is very sad for you. Consider that Judaism is as much a culture and a heritage as a religion, and you'll understand why the only country that has that culture predominantly puts its symbol on its flag.

And the Jewish star is in no way as important to the Jewish religion as the Christian cross was. They are not comparable symbols, and the Star of David is much more a cultural symbol than anything.
 

daniel49

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2005
4,814
0
71
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: amish
Originally posted by: Doboji
Originally posted by: Meuge
I don't know why you started this thread Doboji... I've learned long ago that you can't change antisemites... the only way to convince them is to but a bullet through the base of their brains.

Well not everyone who disagrees with Israel is an anti-semite... I think we have to be really really careful using that term, because it loses it's potency when used too freely.

exactly, i'm not an antisemite, but i think that israel has gone too far. i can understand 'an eye for an eye' but once they started hitting the airport and other civilian targets i believe they made a mistake.

israel is supposed to have one of the best special forces on the planet. use them against hezbollah in southern lebanon and use guided munitions against the leadership in the north. don't make the entire population pay for something they can't get rid of due to syria and iran.
:thumbsup: If it was just Hezbollah or those who attacked Israel who were getting rubbed out I wouldn't have any problem with what Israel was doing.

first you would have to get hezballa to quit hiding among women and children and come out and fight like men.
But it will never happen. So to deal with the problem there will be civilian deaths, all that Isreal can do is try and minimize them and they have done that.
 

Islamistani

Member
Jul 5, 2006
31
0
0
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Islamistani
Originally posted by: smack Down
Originally posted by: Zorba
Originally posted by: blackllotus
Alright, what idiots voted "yes" for "Was Hezbollah Justified in attacking, and abducting Israeli soldiers?"?


Probably the same idoits that think Israel doesn't have a right to exist

How come israel is justified in killing hundreds of people to get 2 soldiers back captured in war but Hezbollah isn't justified when it captures two people and kills 8 to get back hundreds of people israel is hoding?

Excellent point. Lets also not forget the countless murders by Israel such as the 8 innocent dead on the beach before this violence broke out. Double standards and hypocrisy rife amongst people. Call both IDF and Hezbollah terrorist outfits or give both the right to fight for protection.

I don't think that people usually call governments and such 'terrorists'. I don't think most people refer to, say, most of the Middle Eastern governments as 'terrorists' even though they are all mostly bad. In addition, people also seem to refer to deliberately targetting civilians.

Which is why I mention double standards and hypocrisy. What do you mean by deliberately targetting civilians? Something in the lines of bombing ambulances? Hospitals? Densely populated civilians areas of Beirut? How many non-civilians are present in here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/p...dle_east_beirut_destruction/html/1.stm How in the world can any rocket be fired from Beirut into Israel?