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Poll: Who makes the best 56K modems?
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Oh yeah, the fact that external modems save a PCI slot (ISA modems have a premium nowadays BTW) and internal resources was important to me.
I have 5pci slots on my mobo, 2 taken up by the SBlive!, 1 by the Voodoo. I'm gonna put a TV card in there. If I had a modem in there too I would have nothing left, precipitating a crisis in 3 months time I should think. I'm already saving a pci slot with my LAN on ISA.
Yeah, I agree internal modems can be cheap and usable, but external is the best otherwise.
* oh and I wouldn't bother with the Diamond external ones because their feature set aint that great for the money- and I don't like the company. If anyone has tried to get tech support for the nasty SIII540, you might know why.
I have 5pci slots on my mobo, 2 taken up by the SBlive!, 1 by the Voodoo. I'm gonna put a TV card in there. If I had a modem in there too I would have nothing left, precipitating a crisis in 3 months time I should think. I'm already saving a pci slot with my LAN on ISA.
Yeah, I agree internal modems can be cheap and usable, but external is the best otherwise.
* oh and I wouldn't bother with the Diamond external ones because their feature set aint that great for the money- and I don't like the company. If anyone has tried to get tech support for the nasty SIII540, you might know why.
Once again I agree with vi_edit, 100% on this.
vrangel, agreed there as well, good point.
I've went through a few modems myself, all were 3COM. First one was a 33.6kbps internal ISA hardware modem, that thing was fast. But, we did pay over $200 for it (winmodems at that time were NOT a good option, not even CLOSE). Everything always worked perfectly and it worked in DOS, which mattered alot more back then too.
Well, we were a satisfied U.S. Robotics customer, so when we decided to jump to 56K, we went 3COM (because by then 3COM had U.S. Robotics). We got the performance we expected... it was excellent. I was getting very nice ping and downloads (90ms ping, 6+KB/s DL, fluctuated very little). Well, somehow I managed to mess up that modem, and we brought it back to the store and got it replaced.
How nice of them (the store - not 3COM) to give us a winmodem without telling us. Well, I don't know if I can call it that, it works in BeOS. It's one of the modems with a DSP chip on it... But, I don't connect as high (44000bps instead of 49333bps with the hardware modem), and my pings aren't as good (never as low as 90ms.. usually 120-300ms, fluctuates a lot) as well as lower downloads (highest I ever get now is 5.3KB/s, but often get 2 or 3KB/s).
My new modem (the dsp one I have now) also disconnects more frequently... When I had my hardware modem (it was a rectangle - this damn DSP modem is irregularly shaped.. I don't like it! 😛), I never, EVER got disconnected, not because of the modem at least (a couple of times throughout a few years, I did, but found out the ISP had messed up).
I would be so happy to have that modem back... But I'm not spending more money when the modem I have now works fine, even if it's a bit slower and less stable than my old one. At least this works in BeOS and will probably work in Linux too, and yeah, it's still ISA..
-RSI
vrangel, agreed there as well, good point.
I've went through a few modems myself, all were 3COM. First one was a 33.6kbps internal ISA hardware modem, that thing was fast. But, we did pay over $200 for it (winmodems at that time were NOT a good option, not even CLOSE). Everything always worked perfectly and it worked in DOS, which mattered alot more back then too.
Well, we were a satisfied U.S. Robotics customer, so when we decided to jump to 56K, we went 3COM (because by then 3COM had U.S. Robotics). We got the performance we expected... it was excellent. I was getting very nice ping and downloads (90ms ping, 6+KB/s DL, fluctuated very little). Well, somehow I managed to mess up that modem, and we brought it back to the store and got it replaced.
How nice of them (the store - not 3COM) to give us a winmodem without telling us. Well, I don't know if I can call it that, it works in BeOS. It's one of the modems with a DSP chip on it... But, I don't connect as high (44000bps instead of 49333bps with the hardware modem), and my pings aren't as good (never as low as 90ms.. usually 120-300ms, fluctuates a lot) as well as lower downloads (highest I ever get now is 5.3KB/s, but often get 2 or 3KB/s).
My new modem (the dsp one I have now) also disconnects more frequently... When I had my hardware modem (it was a rectangle - this damn DSP modem is irregularly shaped.. I don't like it! 😛), I never, EVER got disconnected, not because of the modem at least (a couple of times throughout a few years, I did, but found out the ISP had messed up).
I would be so happy to have that modem back... But I'm not spending more money when the modem I have now works fine, even if it's a bit slower and less stable than my old one. At least this works in BeOS and will probably work in Linux too, and yeah, it's still ISA..
-RSI
I'm with RSI & Vrangel on this one. HW Modems are available both online and locally for easily less then $50 now. Why burden your CPU (even 3-5%) with a WinModem? Or suffer through line noise? And the slow downs etc that alot of people seem to notice between WinModems and HardWare modems (as RSI mentioned).
I recommend the 3COM/USR 2976 (OEM Version of the 5610).
However I will admit that perhaps not all of us here at AnandTech are tweakers and OCers and people who want the most out of our systems. So if your going to do email, icq, and surf a bit go with a cheap WinModem. If you plan to game and dl heavily then go with a low cost HW modem you won't regret it. WinModems aren't devil spawn or anything they just aren't for those of us who wish the most out of every piece of hardware they own.
Thorin
I recommend the 3COM/USR 2976 (OEM Version of the 5610).
However I will admit that perhaps not all of us here at AnandTech are tweakers and OCers and people who want the most out of our systems. So if your going to do email, icq, and surf a bit go with a cheap WinModem. If you plan to game and dl heavily then go with a low cost HW modem you won't regret it. WinModems aren't devil spawn or anything they just aren't for those of us who wish the most out of every piece of hardware they own.
Thorin
Soccerman,
<<in otherwords, if you want that extra FPS, going hardware might be what you want>>
Not really. Why? Let's assume you're using a Duron 600 and a Lucent LT, which would amount to around 2% CPU utilization. At the very most, and assuming FPS scaled linearly with CPU cycles (it obviously doesn't because most games are not CPU limitted at normal resolutions), that would give you a 2% FPS boost, say, 51 fps instead of 50. Whoopedy doo. Now, let's assume you went and spent the $30 of a hardware modem on upgrading your CPU instead. What would that get you? According to Pricewatch, a Duron 700 instead of your current 600.
See what I mean? Sure, a hardware modem will buy you, at most, an extra 5% CPU power (only while you're online, of course) but the extra money would be much better spent on a faster CPU or video card, either of which would land you a faster overall system in every situation, not just when you're online.
Vi_Edit,
<<The bennies of external far outweigh the extra $30 that you pay for one over an internal.>>
Actually, it's hard to show that an external modem has any tangible benefits at all. Certainly, none of the ones you listed amount to much in real world use:
<<Save precious PCI slots>>
Modern boards have five PCI slots and an AGP. The video goes in the AGP, the sound, modem, and NIC get PCI, and then what? You still have two left for anything you want to throw in there, not to mention the USB interface where you can latch up to 128 more devices. In reality, expansion hasn't been a problem in years. If anything, modern computers are TOO expandable and TOO upgradable for the vast majority of people who use them -- witness the growing trend of integrating everything on the motherboard, including modem, NIC, vaccum cleaner and lawn mower.
<<Are a godsend to those i810 boards that are already bogged down by onboard video, sound, NIC, and whatever else they manage to stick on there.>>
Not at all. Those boards in fact have the most room for extra cards since their PCI slots are usually vacant.
<<If my modem gets locked up on a bad disconnect from my ISP, all I do is hit the power switch on the modem. None of this rebooting crap.>>
If your modem is frequently "locking up" like that, maybe you need to have a look at that expensive modem. I think it used to happen to my winmodem, oh, once a month. It was terrible, I had to wait thirty seconds to reboot. . . the humanity!
<<The lights ARE useful in troublshooting>>
The lights are NOT. All they can really tell you is the status of the carrier, and whether you're sending, receiving, or both. Oddly enough, an internal modem does this too, through the DUN icon in the system tray.
And to take it even further, some winmodem chipset makers like Ambient (presently Intel, formerly Cirrus Logic) have actually implemented that nifty row of status lights in software, so that all the poor opressed winmodem users can now bask in their warm, glowing, warming glow.
<<they are automatically detected and drivers are installed by win98>>
Both Win2K and WinME also feature decent support for the more common winmodem chipsets.
Vrangel,
<<Why bother with winmodem when the best HW one is only 37 bucks>>
Why bother with a hardware modem when the best winmodem is only 10 bucks? Especially considering the hardmodem won't improve your day to day usage, yield better performance, clean your house or walk your dog.
RSI,
<<How nice of them (the store - not 3COM) to give us a winmodem without telling us. . . . I don't connect as high (44000bps instead of 49333bps with the hardware modem), and my pings aren't as good>>
All your experience shows is that 3Com hardware modems are better than 3Com winmodems. Really, would they have it any other way? 3Com wouldn't be able to fleece people with overpriced hardware modems if their cheaper stuff was just as good. Then again, considering some of the opinions expressed here, they actually might. . .
Either way, 3Com winmodems have never been anything but mediocre and overpriced. Compare a Lucent LT or Conexant HCF card to any 3Com modem, and you won't be dissapointed.
Thorin,
<<Why burden your CPU (even 3-5%) with a WinModem?>>
Because it saves you money more intelligently spent elsewhere.
<<Or suffer through line noise?>>
There has never been a conclusive test to show that hardware modems handle line noise any better than cheap, modern HCF winmodems. The last comprehensive tests were in some ZDnet rag two years ago, and even they acknowledged that the vast majority of North American phone lines were more than adequate to handle 56k connections by any popular modem.
<<So if your going to do email, icq, and surf a bit go with a cheap WinModem. If you plan to game and dl heavily then go with a low cost HW modem you won't regret it.>>
You will when you realize what you could have done with the money instead of wasting it on equal performance. And BTW, there are dozens of winmodem gamers on this board, myself included (though ADSL makes me more of a "winmodem alumnus" 😉).
Modus
<<in otherwords, if you want that extra FPS, going hardware might be what you want>>
Not really. Why? Let's assume you're using a Duron 600 and a Lucent LT, which would amount to around 2% CPU utilization. At the very most, and assuming FPS scaled linearly with CPU cycles (it obviously doesn't because most games are not CPU limitted at normal resolutions), that would give you a 2% FPS boost, say, 51 fps instead of 50. Whoopedy doo. Now, let's assume you went and spent the $30 of a hardware modem on upgrading your CPU instead. What would that get you? According to Pricewatch, a Duron 700 instead of your current 600.
See what I mean? Sure, a hardware modem will buy you, at most, an extra 5% CPU power (only while you're online, of course) but the extra money would be much better spent on a faster CPU or video card, either of which would land you a faster overall system in every situation, not just when you're online.
Vi_Edit,
<<The bennies of external far outweigh the extra $30 that you pay for one over an internal.>>
Actually, it's hard to show that an external modem has any tangible benefits at all. Certainly, none of the ones you listed amount to much in real world use:
<<Save precious PCI slots>>
Modern boards have five PCI slots and an AGP. The video goes in the AGP, the sound, modem, and NIC get PCI, and then what? You still have two left for anything you want to throw in there, not to mention the USB interface where you can latch up to 128 more devices. In reality, expansion hasn't been a problem in years. If anything, modern computers are TOO expandable and TOO upgradable for the vast majority of people who use them -- witness the growing trend of integrating everything on the motherboard, including modem, NIC, vaccum cleaner and lawn mower.
<<Are a godsend to those i810 boards that are already bogged down by onboard video, sound, NIC, and whatever else they manage to stick on there.>>
Not at all. Those boards in fact have the most room for extra cards since their PCI slots are usually vacant.
<<If my modem gets locked up on a bad disconnect from my ISP, all I do is hit the power switch on the modem. None of this rebooting crap.>>
If your modem is frequently "locking up" like that, maybe you need to have a look at that expensive modem. I think it used to happen to my winmodem, oh, once a month. It was terrible, I had to wait thirty seconds to reboot. . . the humanity!
<<The lights ARE useful in troublshooting>>
The lights are NOT. All they can really tell you is the status of the carrier, and whether you're sending, receiving, or both. Oddly enough, an internal modem does this too, through the DUN icon in the system tray.
And to take it even further, some winmodem chipset makers like Ambient (presently Intel, formerly Cirrus Logic) have actually implemented that nifty row of status lights in software, so that all the poor opressed winmodem users can now bask in their warm, glowing, warming glow.
<<they are automatically detected and drivers are installed by win98>>
Both Win2K and WinME also feature decent support for the more common winmodem chipsets.
Vrangel,
<<Why bother with winmodem when the best HW one is only 37 bucks>>
Why bother with a hardware modem when the best winmodem is only 10 bucks? Especially considering the hardmodem won't improve your day to day usage, yield better performance, clean your house or walk your dog.
RSI,
<<How nice of them (the store - not 3COM) to give us a winmodem without telling us. . . . I don't connect as high (44000bps instead of 49333bps with the hardware modem), and my pings aren't as good>>
All your experience shows is that 3Com hardware modems are better than 3Com winmodems. Really, would they have it any other way? 3Com wouldn't be able to fleece people with overpriced hardware modems if their cheaper stuff was just as good. Then again, considering some of the opinions expressed here, they actually might. . .
Either way, 3Com winmodems have never been anything but mediocre and overpriced. Compare a Lucent LT or Conexant HCF card to any 3Com modem, and you won't be dissapointed.
Thorin,
<<Why burden your CPU (even 3-5%) with a WinModem?>>
Because it saves you money more intelligently spent elsewhere.
<<Or suffer through line noise?>>
There has never been a conclusive test to show that hardware modems handle line noise any better than cheap, modern HCF winmodems. The last comprehensive tests were in some ZDnet rag two years ago, and even they acknowledged that the vast majority of North American phone lines were more than adequate to handle 56k connections by any popular modem.
<<So if your going to do email, icq, and surf a bit go with a cheap WinModem. If you plan to game and dl heavily then go with a low cost HW modem you won't regret it.>>
You will when you realize what you could have done with the money instead of wasting it on equal performance. And BTW, there are dozens of winmodem gamers on this board, myself included (though ADSL makes me more of a "winmodem alumnus" 😉).
Modus
Hmmm...lemme seee here
5 PCI slots
1 for sound
1 for SCSI
1 for DVD decoder
2 nics, 1 for inbound broadband, one for outbound to Hub
Gee...no room for PCI modem
My config is not that uncommon either.
My comment on the i810 boards is about system resources, not physical expansion. By the time you figure in all of the integrated components of the i810 board, adding yet another resource hog just continues to bring down the performance of the system.
It's also blatently obvious that you have never done any tech support. An external modem is by far much easier to diagnose and support than an internal. Those little blinking lights down in the lower right hand corner don't do any good if the modem doesn't connect in the first place. At least w/ an external modem I can tell if the PC is communicating w/ the device. I can also tell at what point the connection is being dropped during the dial up process.
But once again, since you've probably never used an external modem, or had to provide techsupport to someone who whouldn't know an internal modem from a motherboard, your arguements hold little validity.
5 PCI slots
1 for sound
1 for SCSI
1 for DVD decoder
2 nics, 1 for inbound broadband, one for outbound to Hub
Gee...no room for PCI modem
My config is not that uncommon either.
My comment on the i810 boards is about system resources, not physical expansion. By the time you figure in all of the integrated components of the i810 board, adding yet another resource hog just continues to bring down the performance of the system.
It's also blatently obvious that you have never done any tech support. An external modem is by far much easier to diagnose and support than an internal. Those little blinking lights down in the lower right hand corner don't do any good if the modem doesn't connect in the first place. At least w/ an external modem I can tell if the PC is communicating w/ the device. I can also tell at what point the connection is being dropped during the dial up process.
But once again, since you've probably never used an external modem, or had to provide techsupport to someone who whouldn't know an internal modem from a motherboard, your arguements hold little validity.
Also, about the drop from the ISP, it was a common event that occured in the dial up pool at my university. It happened to many users, using many different makes/models.
For those of us with the external modems, we flipped a switch on and off and back up and running within 3 seconds. It's not the time time of the reboot, it's the fact that I have to save and close all active applications which is more of an annoyance than anything.
For those of us with the external modems, we flipped a switch on and off and back up and running within 3 seconds. It's not the time time of the reboot, it's the fact that I have to save and close all active applications which is more of an annoyance than anything.
Vi_Edit,
<<My config is not that uncommon either.>>
Look at a hundred random computers. Your configuration is extremely uncommon. The DVD decoder is pointless for modern CPU's. The SCSI controller is rare considering modern IDE drives offer tremendously superior value. And a dual NIC setup is usually used when a hub is unavailable, or when one computer is sharing Net access to many others, but in that case, one of the NIC's can be USB. Either way, you're the exception that proves the rule.
<<An external modem is by far much easier to diagnose and support than an internal. Those little blinking lights down in the lower right hand corner don't do any good if the modem doesn't connect in the first place. At least w/ an external modem I can tell if the PC is communicating w/ the device. I can also tell at what point the connection is being dropped during the dial up process.>>
Wrong, wrong, and wrong. I most certainly can tell if an internal modem is receiving commands, quickly and easily through the modem diagnostics in Control Panel. And with the combination of the modem speaker (what, you think internal modems don't have them?) and the software status lights, I can readily tell if the disconnect occurs during dial-up, handshaking, or password authentication.
And get this: the latest Motorola SM56 (not the best winmodem but very decent) drivers will actually tell the true speed your modem is connected at, even after a retrain due to poor line conditions. So if your overpriced external hardware modem connected at 49333 bps, but is only downloading compressed binaries at 4.3k/sec instead of the proper 4.8k/sec, you're out of luck to determine why. The dirt cheap Motorola winmodem, on the other hand, will tell you exactly why, and even provide a log file detailing, to the second, when and why certain actions were taken. How's that for troublshooting? 😉
<<It's also blatently obvious that you have never done any tech support. . . since you've probably never used an external modem, or had to provide techsupport to someone who whouldn't know an internal modem from a motherboard, your arguements hold little validity.>>
It's blatantly obvious you don't have a clue what I've done, so maybe you should keep the personal comments to yourself and argue the issue.
<<Also, about the drop from the ISP, it was a common event that occured in the dial up pool at my university.>>
I'll have to remember that next time some one from your university needs a modem.
Modus
<<My config is not that uncommon either.>>
Look at a hundred random computers. Your configuration is extremely uncommon. The DVD decoder is pointless for modern CPU's. The SCSI controller is rare considering modern IDE drives offer tremendously superior value. And a dual NIC setup is usually used when a hub is unavailable, or when one computer is sharing Net access to many others, but in that case, one of the NIC's can be USB. Either way, you're the exception that proves the rule.
<<An external modem is by far much easier to diagnose and support than an internal. Those little blinking lights down in the lower right hand corner don't do any good if the modem doesn't connect in the first place. At least w/ an external modem I can tell if the PC is communicating w/ the device. I can also tell at what point the connection is being dropped during the dial up process.>>
Wrong, wrong, and wrong. I most certainly can tell if an internal modem is receiving commands, quickly and easily through the modem diagnostics in Control Panel. And with the combination of the modem speaker (what, you think internal modems don't have them?) and the software status lights, I can readily tell if the disconnect occurs during dial-up, handshaking, or password authentication.
And get this: the latest Motorola SM56 (not the best winmodem but very decent) drivers will actually tell the true speed your modem is connected at, even after a retrain due to poor line conditions. So if your overpriced external hardware modem connected at 49333 bps, but is only downloading compressed binaries at 4.3k/sec instead of the proper 4.8k/sec, you're out of luck to determine why. The dirt cheap Motorola winmodem, on the other hand, will tell you exactly why, and even provide a log file detailing, to the second, when and why certain actions were taken. How's that for troublshooting? 😉
<<It's also blatently obvious that you have never done any tech support. . . since you've probably never used an external modem, or had to provide techsupport to someone who whouldn't know an internal modem from a motherboard, your arguements hold little validity.>>
It's blatantly obvious you don't have a clue what I've done, so maybe you should keep the personal comments to yourself and argue the issue.
<<Also, about the drop from the ISP, it was a common event that occured in the dial up pool at my university.>>
I'll have to remember that next time some one from your university needs a modem.
Modus
Senior Member
Senior member
Modus- vi_edit's pci config is not quite as rare as you might think. Saving a PCI slot can't be considered anything but a benefit. Also, having an easily detachable/portable modem is a benefit.
I've extensively used two different brands of 56k external modems, and they both perform excellently and are painless to install, things which I cannot say of any of the winmodems I've fooled with.
I've extensively used two different brands of 56k external modems, and they both perform excellently and are painless to install, things which I cannot say of any of the winmodems I've fooled with.
BuckMaster
Diamond Member
Ext. USR
Sigh...
Try getting quality TV out AND digital out with a software solution.
Also - I use SCSI CDROMS and scsi scanners, not hard drives.
I paid 169 for an Imation (plextor) 8x20 CDR kit that included a PCI SCSI card. I along with several thousand other people purchased this kit from best buy and compusa. This doesn't include the other thousands that have the Pioneer SCSI DVD Drives or the Plextor loyalists that use SCSI CDROMS and CD burners.
We are not as rare as you like to make us out to be.
Try getting quality TV out AND digital out with a software solution.
Also - I use SCSI CDROMS and scsi scanners, not hard drives.
I paid 169 for an Imation (plextor) 8x20 CDR kit that included a PCI SCSI card. I along with several thousand other people purchased this kit from best buy and compusa. This doesn't include the other thousands that have the Pioneer SCSI DVD Drives or the Plextor loyalists that use SCSI CDROMS and CD burners.
We are not as rare as you like to make us out to be.
"Look at a hundred random computers. Your configuration is extremely uncommon."
mine has 5 PCI slots, 3 of them independant of each other. I'm running a K6-2 400@420 on an ASUS P5A.
I have the Video card in the AGP slot, the 1st PCI slot empty (it's shared with the AGP, but I somehow can get my Voodoo Banshee running there as secondary), the second slot is the Soundcard, 3rd is the ATA 66 card, the 4th is the Hollywood Plus DVD Decoder, the 5th is shared with the 4th, and has a modem.
as you can see, I normally can't play DVD's in hardware while downloading (a bummer). if I decided to play them in software, I'd be having a tough time with a software modem, with my crappy line and all..
all this is why I want to sell my 3com (the same that Thorin has) and buy a Diamond Supra Express 56k modem, becuase they've got some SWEET quality, they are ISA (I can assign the IRQ at will becuase it doesn't share with the H+), and they are hardware (can run them with or without DVD in software).
my ONLY complaint with my current 3com modem, is that it's not full duplex. other then that it's fine. if I knew it wasn't, I wouldn't have bought it (anything that helps speed is a good thing with my crappy phone line).
my old modem died on me after 2 years of faithful service. I have all my unused serial ports disabled, and have a few EXTRA IRQ's to spare, which is why I'm considering external as well (not USB though, even more CPU time is needed for that).
MODUS, YOU may not have problems with FPS counts, but people with lower speed computers (like mine or slower) would gladly take Hardware over Software modems.
that, and I personally hate (hey I'm an extreme tweaker, becuase of the fact that all my systems are underpowered compared to people on this whole forum) things that slow down my computer, no matter how much, if I can gain speed by spending extra $, then fine! if you combine all of your tweaks by buying quality components, you end up with a better system speed. it's not ANY ONE COMPONENT that does it, it's the sum.
mine has 5 PCI slots, 3 of them independant of each other. I'm running a K6-2 400@420 on an ASUS P5A.
I have the Video card in the AGP slot, the 1st PCI slot empty (it's shared with the AGP, but I somehow can get my Voodoo Banshee running there as secondary), the second slot is the Soundcard, 3rd is the ATA 66 card, the 4th is the Hollywood Plus DVD Decoder, the 5th is shared with the 4th, and has a modem.
as you can see, I normally can't play DVD's in hardware while downloading (a bummer). if I decided to play them in software, I'd be having a tough time with a software modem, with my crappy line and all..
all this is why I want to sell my 3com (the same that Thorin has) and buy a Diamond Supra Express 56k modem, becuase they've got some SWEET quality, they are ISA (I can assign the IRQ at will becuase it doesn't share with the H+), and they are hardware (can run them with or without DVD in software).
my ONLY complaint with my current 3com modem, is that it's not full duplex. other then that it's fine. if I knew it wasn't, I wouldn't have bought it (anything that helps speed is a good thing with my crappy phone line).
my old modem died on me after 2 years of faithful service. I have all my unused serial ports disabled, and have a few EXTRA IRQ's to spare, which is why I'm considering external as well (not USB though, even more CPU time is needed for that).
MODUS, YOU may not have problems with FPS counts, but people with lower speed computers (like mine or slower) would gladly take Hardware over Software modems.
that, and I personally hate (hey I'm an extreme tweaker, becuase of the fact that all my systems are underpowered compared to people on this whole forum) things that slow down my computer, no matter how much, if I can gain speed by spending extra $, then fine! if you combine all of your tweaks by buying quality components, you end up with a better system speed. it's not ANY ONE COMPONENT that does it, it's the sum.
Vi_edit,
<<Try getting quality TV out AND digital out with a software solution.>>
Simple: WinDVD + SBLive + any video card with decent TV out. Slot freed, money saved. 🙂
<<We are not as rare as you like to make us out to be.>>
Yes you are. Look at the bigger picture.
Soccerman,
<<but people with lower speed computers (like mine or slower) would gladly take Hardware over Software modems>>
And so would I, provided they were equally expensive. Unfortunately, they are about 300% more expensive, and the only benefit they bring you is some puny extra CPU power while online that amounts to a 17 MHz CeleronA.
Senior Member,
<<Saving a PCI slot can't be considered anything but a benefit.>>
Of course, all things being equal. However, saving that slot comes at an enormous price premium: roughly 500% over a standard PCI winmodem. For those of the vast majority who don't pack their machines to the gills, a PCI slot is a PCI slot, just waiting to be filled with something useful. Obviously, if you have no internal slots, you will be forced to waste your money on an external modem, but it's not something to recommend to the average person with normal expansion capabilities.
<<Also, having an easily detachable/portable modem is a benefit.>>
You could even take them to parties. What an asset! Imagine all the women you could meet. It'd be just like having a cute dog with you, everywhere you go. Hmmm. . .
"Hey good lookin'. Want to see something special?"
"Um, I'd love to, but I have a root cannal to get to."
"See this? This is an external hardware modem. It cost me almost a hundred dollars."
"That's great. Did it come with a mint?"
"No, no, this is really neat. See this thing on the back here? It's a serial port connector. And here, let me get something out of my pocket --"
"I really have to be going!"
"No, look, it's just my serial cable. It lets me connect my external hardware modem to any computer I want!"
"That's fantastic, but I --"
"Oh and look at this. I can keep the AC power adaptor in my fanny waist pack here and pull it out whenever I need to. It plugs into the wall and the modem and then look, the modem lights up and blinks. IT LIGHTS UP AND BLINKS."
"Great, I just --"
"And because it's a hardware modem and costs more money, it must be better, right? It must be better than those cheap winmodems, damn winmodems, so cheap and affordable and. . . Do you know what a winmodem is?"
*sigh*
"No, what is it? I'm dying to hear."
"It's this really lousy kind of modem that doesn't even have lights on the front, and it needs drivers to work, and the drivers take so much time to install, I mean really, who has the attention span to wait for a computer to reboot? And they're so sneaky because now the winmodems are practically as good as hardmodems and so much cheaper and run in every popular operating system. Pretty soon everyone will be using winmodems. It's awful."
"But aren't they just as good as hardware modems in everyday tasks?"
"Uh, I guess but --"
"And don't they cost many times less than hardware modems, often selling for insanely low prices after mail-in rebates?"
"Well yeah, but --"
"And isn't there a kind of winmodem called HCF that exhibits fairly low latency and fairly high throughput, performing similar to hardware modems of over twice their cost?"
*dumbfounded*
"OK. Well, that's a really nice external hardware modem you've got there, but I've got a root cannal to get done so, as much as I'd love to continue this conversation, I'll have to see you later. OK?"
"Oh sure, sure. I'll see you real soon OK? You have fun at the dentist!"
*waves at her with the modem as she recedes into the crowd*
"I'm such a stud."
Modus
<<Try getting quality TV out AND digital out with a software solution.>>
Simple: WinDVD + SBLive + any video card with decent TV out. Slot freed, money saved. 🙂
<<We are not as rare as you like to make us out to be.>>
Yes you are. Look at the bigger picture.
Soccerman,
<<but people with lower speed computers (like mine or slower) would gladly take Hardware over Software modems>>
And so would I, provided they were equally expensive. Unfortunately, they are about 300% more expensive, and the only benefit they bring you is some puny extra CPU power while online that amounts to a 17 MHz CeleronA.
Senior Member,
<<Saving a PCI slot can't be considered anything but a benefit.>>
Of course, all things being equal. However, saving that slot comes at an enormous price premium: roughly 500% over a standard PCI winmodem. For those of the vast majority who don't pack their machines to the gills, a PCI slot is a PCI slot, just waiting to be filled with something useful. Obviously, if you have no internal slots, you will be forced to waste your money on an external modem, but it's not something to recommend to the average person with normal expansion capabilities.
<<Also, having an easily detachable/portable modem is a benefit.>>
You could even take them to parties. What an asset! Imagine all the women you could meet. It'd be just like having a cute dog with you, everywhere you go. Hmmm. . .
"Hey good lookin'. Want to see something special?"
"Um, I'd love to, but I have a root cannal to get to."
"See this? This is an external hardware modem. It cost me almost a hundred dollars."
"That's great. Did it come with a mint?"
"No, no, this is really neat. See this thing on the back here? It's a serial port connector. And here, let me get something out of my pocket --"
"I really have to be going!"
"No, look, it's just my serial cable. It lets me connect my external hardware modem to any computer I want!"
"That's fantastic, but I --"
"Oh and look at this. I can keep the AC power adaptor in my fanny waist pack here and pull it out whenever I need to. It plugs into the wall and the modem and then look, the modem lights up and blinks. IT LIGHTS UP AND BLINKS."
"Great, I just --"
"And because it's a hardware modem and costs more money, it must be better, right? It must be better than those cheap winmodems, damn winmodems, so cheap and affordable and. . . Do you know what a winmodem is?"
*sigh*
"No, what is it? I'm dying to hear."
"It's this really lousy kind of modem that doesn't even have lights on the front, and it needs drivers to work, and the drivers take so much time to install, I mean really, who has the attention span to wait for a computer to reboot? And they're so sneaky because now the winmodems are practically as good as hardmodems and so much cheaper and run in every popular operating system. Pretty soon everyone will be using winmodems. It's awful."
"But aren't they just as good as hardware modems in everyday tasks?"
"Uh, I guess but --"
"And don't they cost many times less than hardware modems, often selling for insanely low prices after mail-in rebates?"
"Well yeah, but --"
"And isn't there a kind of winmodem called HCF that exhibits fairly low latency and fairly high throughput, performing similar to hardware modems of over twice their cost?"
*dumbfounded*
"OK. Well, that's a really nice external hardware modem you've got there, but I've got a root cannal to get done so, as much as I'd love to continue this conversation, I'll have to see you later. OK?"
"Oh sure, sure. I'll see you real soon OK? You have fun at the dentist!"
*waves at her with the modem as she recedes into the crowd*
"I'm such a stud."
Modus
Quickfingerz
Diamond Member
does this question really matter? We should be talking about broadband connections.
Chad,
<<Another vote for 3com. Why even bother with a win Modem when the hardware modems are dirt cheap>>
False. Relatively speaking, hardware modems are criminally expensive. Pricewatch:
Lucent LT: $9
3Com 2976: $49
As you can see, the cheapest available PCI hardware modem cost 450% more. Is it 450% faster? Of course not. Is it 300% faster? Nope. Is it twice as fast? Hardly. Is it even 10% faster? I'm afraid not. So then, what is it? A ripoff.
Thorin,
<<Are we surprised yet? ~62% Voted for 3Com/USR ~15% Voted for Lucent>>
The 62% is figure is quite interesting, though of course you missed its application entirely. What 62% represents is not the chance that those supporting 3Com hardware modems are correct, but the percentage of people who own such modems.
People tend to recommend what they know, without any serious investigation of competing products or price/performance ratios. They are so eager to justify their expensive purchase that they ignore the possibility that, maybe they spent too much; maybe there was something just as good for less money.
<<Slam!>>
Alas, I bow to your superior intellect. How dare I disagree with the majority? How dare I envoke factual argument to prove a point? How dare I challenge the assumptions of the mislead? Blasphemy!
Rigoletto,
<<i can't believe this modus guy he's really obsessive maybe he has personality disorder or something>>
Why? Because I refuse to end an argument with "well that's your opinion, you're entitled to it"? Give me a break. We're not debating capital punishment or foreign policy here. This is a very small question: which modem yields the best price/performance ratio? The answer, as I've proved ad nauseum, is any modem with a Lucent LT or Conexant HCF chipset. If some one disagrees with that, they are simply wrong, and I'll show everyone why.
Oh and for future reference, when you come to this board asking for help on a topic, try not to insult the one guy who spends the most time helping you, OK? It's just not classy.
Modus
<<Another vote for 3com. Why even bother with a win Modem when the hardware modems are dirt cheap>>
False. Relatively speaking, hardware modems are criminally expensive. Pricewatch:
Lucent LT: $9
3Com 2976: $49
As you can see, the cheapest available PCI hardware modem cost 450% more. Is it 450% faster? Of course not. Is it 300% faster? Nope. Is it twice as fast? Hardly. Is it even 10% faster? I'm afraid not. So then, what is it? A ripoff.
Thorin,
<<Are we surprised yet? ~62% Voted for 3Com/USR ~15% Voted for Lucent>>
The 62% is figure is quite interesting, though of course you missed its application entirely. What 62% represents is not the chance that those supporting 3Com hardware modems are correct, but the percentage of people who own such modems.
People tend to recommend what they know, without any serious investigation of competing products or price/performance ratios. They are so eager to justify their expensive purchase that they ignore the possibility that, maybe they spent too much; maybe there was something just as good for less money.
<<Slam!>>
Alas, I bow to your superior intellect. How dare I disagree with the majority? How dare I envoke factual argument to prove a point? How dare I challenge the assumptions of the mislead? Blasphemy!
Rigoletto,
<<i can't believe this modus guy he's really obsessive maybe he has personality disorder or something>>
Why? Because I refuse to end an argument with "well that's your opinion, you're entitled to it"? Give me a break. We're not debating capital punishment or foreign policy here. This is a very small question: which modem yields the best price/performance ratio? The answer, as I've proved ad nauseum, is any modem with a Lucent LT or Conexant HCF chipset. If some one disagrees with that, they are simply wrong, and I'll show everyone why.
Oh and for future reference, when you come to this board asking for help on a topic, try not to insult the one guy who spends the most time helping you, OK? It's just not classy.
Modus
Personally I use a USR Courier 56k Ext and wouldn't give it up for anything other than DSL or Cable (been on waiting lists for almost 4 years.. grrr). The phonelines in my neighborhood are terrible and the most anyone within 2-3 blocks of me can connect at is 26.4k (and I live in Vienna, VA the home of AOL, hrmpf). In the hayday of QuakeWorld (don't play much online now adays) I could connect at 24.0k or 26.4k and have average _ingame_ pings of 145 on an 8-12 player CTF server.
>Modus:
>This is a very small question: which modem yields the best price/performance ratio? The answer, >as I've proved ad nauseum, is any modem with a Lucent LT or Conexant HCF chipset. If some one >disagrees with that, they are simply wrong, and I'll show everyone why.
Actually the thread title is "Who makes the best 56k modems?" and implies no mention of taking into account price. Although the original post from Rigoletto mentions price, he doesn't mention what his price range is or that price is the major concern. He does mention spending 40BP for a modem which is like (no conversion rate handy..) $60, so that is probably a reasonable amount of money Rigloetto is willing to spend.
As far as the external/internal hardware/software debate goes... I do think each type of modem fits best for different types of users, but if performance/price ratio is the buyers primary motivation then I have little argument that the latest generation of software modems probably would win out.
On a side note this is a great site for modem tweaking (the modem the tweaking is based on is a USR Courier): optimizing.net
Another aside: USR is again it's own company seperate from 3Com (http://www.usr.com/inside/in-pressbox.asp - see the 6/7/2000 press release)
>Modus:
>This is a very small question: which modem yields the best price/performance ratio? The answer, >as I've proved ad nauseum, is any modem with a Lucent LT or Conexant HCF chipset. If some one >disagrees with that, they are simply wrong, and I'll show everyone why.
Actually the thread title is "Who makes the best 56k modems?" and implies no mention of taking into account price. Although the original post from Rigoletto mentions price, he doesn't mention what his price range is or that price is the major concern. He does mention spending 40BP for a modem which is like (no conversion rate handy..) $60, so that is probably a reasonable amount of money Rigloetto is willing to spend.
As far as the external/internal hardware/software debate goes... I do think each type of modem fits best for different types of users, but if performance/price ratio is the buyers primary motivation then I have little argument that the latest generation of software modems probably would win out.
On a side note this is a great site for modem tweaking (the modem the tweaking is based on is a USR Courier): optimizing.net
Another aside: USR is again it's own company seperate from 3Com (http://www.usr.com/inside/in-pressbox.asp - see the 6/7/2000 press release)
Theres a 56K winmodem in local Circuit City that is almost free. Price: one dollar .
Lucent $9 winmodem is 800% more expensive and its not 800% better.
But who cares about price/performance when its a pocket change anyway.
Modus ,your debate style reminds me of Al Gore.
Many ppl watched debates and say he knows issues,
but he was so obnoxious it didnt do him any good.
Lucent $9 winmodem is 800% more expensive and its not 800% better.
But who cares about price/performance when its a pocket change anyway.
Modus ,your debate style reminds me of Al Gore.
Many ppl watched debates and say he knows issues,
but he was so obnoxious it didnt do him any good.
$30 is not a significant factor in the overall price of a computer. $30 is easily less than 3% of the cost of an average computer.
If you want to argue the price/performance ratio, head over to a BMW forum and tell the members there that they are stupid for paying $50,000 for a car that has less features than a $30,000 Volkwagen Passat.
Oh, and since it is MY money, there is nothing wrong with ME justifying why I paid MY money for it.
For many of us, the extra $30 is well worth:
A) easier hookup because we don't have to crack open the computer case
B) built in driver support, for the majority of us who haven't upgraded to WinMe or Win2k
C) better ping times in CPU intensive FPS games
D) visual keys (those funny blinking lights as you like to refer to them)
E) the free PCI slot
F) the comfort that they will work with virtually ANY OS outhere without having to download another driver(which doesn't do you any good if you can't hook up to the internet to download it)
Oh, A) reminds me, what does it really cost somebody to buy a winmodem? Many people aren't confident enough to open up their computer and install parts themselves so they have to pay somebody to do it for them. If they buy a internal modem, they have to pay somebody to install it for them. Costs for a component installation range anwhere from $20 to $50. Not to mention the time that it takes to unhook the computer, drive it to the computer shop, leave it there, let them install it, and then take it back home, and hook the computer back up. Now, that $10 dollar winmodem is worth somewhere around $30 to $60, not including time and energy spent to take it to the shop, and pick it back up again.
If somebody, with even very little computer experience buys an external modem, there is very, very little possiblity that they could wreck anything and they could install it themselves saving a nice little chunk of change and the time that it takes to have a computer shop install it.
Now, "look at the bigger picture" as you put it. There are far greater people that have little to no computer knowledge and pay an insane amount of money every day to have a $10 component installed. It's people like this that provide you and me a job. Even the most computer incompetent fool can install an external modem and no break anything, as opposed to trying to crack open their case and not properly grounding themselves and ESD'ing their mainboard.
With an external modem, even the most computer impaired person can be up and running within minutes. Not so with an internal.
BTW - we may both have long winded posts, but at least my are relevent to the topic 😉
If you want to argue the price/performance ratio, head over to a BMW forum and tell the members there that they are stupid for paying $50,000 for a car that has less features than a $30,000 Volkwagen Passat.
Oh, and since it is MY money, there is nothing wrong with ME justifying why I paid MY money for it.
For many of us, the extra $30 is well worth:
A) easier hookup because we don't have to crack open the computer case
B) built in driver support, for the majority of us who haven't upgraded to WinMe or Win2k
C) better ping times in CPU intensive FPS games
D) visual keys (those funny blinking lights as you like to refer to them)
E) the free PCI slot
F) the comfort that they will work with virtually ANY OS outhere without having to download another driver(which doesn't do you any good if you can't hook up to the internet to download it)
Oh, A) reminds me, what does it really cost somebody to buy a winmodem? Many people aren't confident enough to open up their computer and install parts themselves so they have to pay somebody to do it for them. If they buy a internal modem, they have to pay somebody to install it for them. Costs for a component installation range anwhere from $20 to $50. Not to mention the time that it takes to unhook the computer, drive it to the computer shop, leave it there, let them install it, and then take it back home, and hook the computer back up. Now, that $10 dollar winmodem is worth somewhere around $30 to $60, not including time and energy spent to take it to the shop, and pick it back up again.
If somebody, with even very little computer experience buys an external modem, there is very, very little possiblity that they could wreck anything and they could install it themselves saving a nice little chunk of change and the time that it takes to have a computer shop install it.
Now, "look at the bigger picture" as you put it. There are far greater people that have little to no computer knowledge and pay an insane amount of money every day to have a $10 component installed. It's people like this that provide you and me a job. Even the most computer incompetent fool can install an external modem and no break anything, as opposed to trying to crack open their case and not properly grounding themselves and ESD'ing their mainboard.
With an external modem, even the most computer impaired person can be up and running within minutes. Not so with an internal.
BTW - we may both have long winded posts, but at least my are relevent to the topic 😉
"Alas, I bow to your superior intellect. How dare I disagree with the majority? How dare I envoke factual argument to prove a point? How dare I challenge the assumptions of the mislead? Blasphemy!"
Ummm did any of my post appear to be going for the intellectual approach? I was just stating a fact and having a little fun. If you'd like to have our same old tired arguement(s) let me know (it has been a while). It always ends up the same way, something like:
Hardware modems tolerate line noise better (though WinModems are getting better on this front). WinModems may provide similar or equal pings and transfers. WinModems do put un-needed or un-wanted load on the CPU (no matter whether it has a DSP or not). Neither are relevant if xDSL or Cable are an option. Those of us who push our systems to the edge, always agree that WinModems are best for "average joe" and that HW Modems will keep a place with the people who want max performance.
Thorin
Ummm did any of my post appear to be going for the intellectual approach? I was just stating a fact and having a little fun. If you'd like to have our same old tired arguement(s) let me know (it has been a while). It always ends up the same way, something like:
Hardware modems tolerate line noise better (though WinModems are getting better on this front). WinModems may provide similar or equal pings and transfers. WinModems do put un-needed or un-wanted load on the CPU (no matter whether it has a DSP or not). Neither are relevant if xDSL or Cable are an option. Those of us who push our systems to the edge, always agree that WinModems are best for "average joe" and that HW Modems will keep a place with the people who want max performance.
Thorin
Hey Modus I'm sure you are crazier even than me cos you burn so much keyboard over little winmodems. I just get to think as someone who has psych. that your fantasy "demolition" of opponents with your series of obsessive long posts quoting people and then disposing of them is diagnostic.
But hey it doesn't mean you're a bad guy, right?
The guy who spends the most time helping me? Get real!
But hey it doesn't mean you're a bad guy, right?
The guy who spends the most time helping me? Get real!
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