[poll] What's your opinion on global warming?

[everman]

I'm in the camp that says: "WTF, why do countries like the US, Canada, and most European nations need to change so much while nobody tells other large developing nations like China and India to do the same?

 

[antillean]

1


There's a lot of ignorance in this thread. Human caused global warming is proven. You really can't dispute the correlation between CO2 and temperature in the past and the present. If you do, you probably don't realize how accurate the climate record is. We also know just about exactly how much CO2 humans have created because we know how much oil has been drilled, and how much coal has been burned. We also know the ecological effects of rising temperatures, and that a huge number of species will become extinct due to global warming.

 

[Dritnul]

camp me: I believe its real but am not going to alter my lifestyle any

 

[Fullmetal Chocobo]

Humans think they are so damned important. I think the Earth is doing what it is doing, and there is nothing we can do about it. Hell--part of us being here and doing what we are doing is likely part of that cycle.

 

[IGBT]

..eco-theism supported by pick and choose voodoo science with shaman algore shaking the rattles and all the koolaid drinkers chanting in the backround.

 

[antillean]

Originally posted by: Fullmetal Chocobo
Humans think they are so damned important. I think the Earth is doing what it is doing, and there is nothing we can do about it. Hell--part of us being here and doing what we are doing is likely part of that cycle.

That's some new age hippie BS. To think that humans are insignificant is fluffy wishful thinking.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: antillean

Originally posted by: Fullmetal Chocobo
Humans think they are so damned important. I think the Earth is doing what it is doing, and there is nothing we can do about it. Hell--part of us being here and doing what we are doing is likely part of that cycle.

That's some new age hippie BS. To think that humans are insignificant is fluffy wishful thinking.

So exactly how do you account for all the evidence in the geologic record of periods when this planet has been much cooler and much warmer than it is today? All but the most recent ice age occured before humans were even aboard this planet.

 

[BigJelly]

Originally posted by: antillean
1


There's a lot of ignorance in this thread. Human caused global warming is proven. You really can't dispute the correlation between CO2 and temperature in the past and the present. If you do, you probably don't realize how accurate the climate record is. We also know just about exactly how much CO2 humans have created because we know how much oil has been drilled, and how much coal has been burned. We also know the ecological effects of rising temperatures, and that a huge number of species will become extinct due to global warming.

so the warming that caused the ancient greeks to prosper and the middle age warming because of the suvs? Must have missed the part of greeks and their gas guzzelers in the Greek history class.

the global cooling from 1940s-1970s was how if humans cause global warming and co2 emissions increased?

I'll stick with earth's cycle--no wait that's wrong--I'll go with SUN'S Natural Cycle FTW

BOT: I voted 3

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: Fullmetal Chocobo
Humans think they are so damned important. I think the Earth is doing what it is doing, and there is nothing we can do about it. Hell--part of us being here and doing what we are doing is likely part of that cycle.

By that rationale, anything that we do to stop the earth from "doing what it is doing" is part of the cycle as well.

 

[antillean]

Originally posted by: Linflas

Originally posted by: antillean

Originally posted by: Fullmetal Chocobo
Humans think they are so damned important. I think the Earth is doing what it is doing, and there is nothing we can do about it. Hell--part of us being here and doing what we are doing is likely part of that cycle.

That's some new age hippie BS. To think that humans are insignificant is fluffy wishful thinking.

So exactly how do you account for all the evidence in the geologic record of periods when this planet has been much cooler and much warmer than it is today? All but the most recent ice age occured before humans were even aboard this planet.

Have you looked at the graphs? Temperatures varied in the past because of cycles we understand like the Milankovitch cycle and solar cycles. We have an excellent record for the past few hundred thousand years from ice cores and ocean floor cores. The sequence of ice ages during that time follows what we would expect. Current anthropogenic global warming follows what we would expect from the drastic increase in CO2. We all know natural variations occur, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be worried about the huge change that we KNOW we are causing.
That's like saying, because cars normally make noise on the highway, you shouldn't worry if it sounds like your transmission just grenaded and you're about to die.

 

[antillean]

Originally posted by: BigJelly

Originally posted by: antillean
1


There's a lot of ignorance in this thread. Human caused global warming is proven. You really can't dispute the correlation between CO2 and temperature in the past and the present. If you do, you probably don't realize how accurate the climate record is. We also know just about exactly how much CO2 humans have created because we know how much oil has been drilled, and how much coal has been burned. We also know the ecological effects of rising temperatures, and that a huge number of species will become extinct due to global warming.

so the warming that caused the ancient greeks to prosper and the middle age warming because of the suvs? Must have missed the part of greeks and their gas guzzelers in the Greek history class.

the global cooling from 1940s-1970s was how if humans cause global warming and co2 emissions increased?

I'll stick with earth's cycle--no wait that's wrong--I'll go with SUN'S Natural Cycle FTW

BOT: I voted 3

Because climatologists pretend that temperature has never changed before?? I didn't say anything about SUVs, btw. Cars are only a part of CO2 emissions, they just happen to be overhyped.

 

[BigJelly]

Originally posted by: antillean

Originally posted by: BigJelly

Originally posted by: antillean
1


There's a lot of ignorance in this thread. Human caused global warming is proven. You really can't dispute the correlation between CO2 and temperature in the past and the present. If you do, you probably don't realize how accurate the climate record is. We also know just about exactly how much CO2 humans have created because we know how much oil has been drilled, and how much coal has been burned. We also know the ecological effects of rising temperatures, and that a huge number of species will become extinct due to global warming.

so the warming that caused the ancient greeks to prosper and the middle age warming because of the suvs? Must have missed the part of greeks and their gas guzzelers in the Greek history class.

the global cooling from 1940s-1970s was how if humans cause global warming and co2 emissions increased?

I'll stick with earth's cycle--no wait that's wrong--I'll go with SUN'S Natural Cycle FTW

BOT: I voted 3

Because climatologists pretend that temperature has never changed before?? I didn't say anything about SUVs, btw. Cars are only a part of CO2 emissions, they just happen to be overhyped.

how can human global warming be proven if warming occured with out humans effect--hence the SUV comment which you completely missed the point of.

So warming and cooling that occured before the combustion engine's invention was nature but after all enviromental effects is 100% human's fault?

 

[antillean]

http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/images/ssn_yearly.jpg

The sun hasn't changed much during the industrial revolution. I'm not a solar expert, but if that is how you determine solar radiation, it can't possibly be the cause of global warming. It would also be an amazing stretch to say that the warming correlated exactly with the industrial revolution's CO2 emissions is because of the sun or other natural processes. If you believe in odds like that, you should be buying lottery tickets every day.

 

[Wheezer]

I am in the camp that says we have A LOT of worthless celebrities (Sheryl Crow) who are looking for the next big bandwagon issue, something they can promote and rally around but in reality piss down peoples backs and tell them it's raining.

i.e. Live Earth....exactly how much electricity was need to power all the equipment, how much fossil fuel was burned so that fans, promoters, pop culture icons and performers could get there?....just so they can tell everyone what they should do to stop this problem, then turn around burn more fossil fuel to go back to their huge energy consuming homes....worthless I tell ya....and how many do-gooders were sucking on water bottles made out of PET plastic which is a petroleum based product?

thats my camp.

 

[antillean]

Originally posted by: BigJelly

Originally posted by: antillean

Originally posted by: BigJelly

Originally posted by: antillean
1


There's a lot of ignorance in this thread. Human caused global warming is proven. You really can't dispute the correlation between CO2 and temperature in the past and the present. If you do, you probably don't realize how accurate the climate record is. We also know just about exactly how much CO2 humans have created because we know how much oil has been drilled, and how much coal has been burned. We also know the ecological effects of rising temperatures, and that a huge number of species will become extinct due to global warming.

so the warming that caused the ancient greeks to prosper and the middle age warming because of the suvs? Must have missed the part of greeks and their gas guzzelers in the Greek history class.

the global cooling from 1940s-1970s was how if humans cause global warming and co2 emissions increased?

I'll stick with earth's cycle--no wait that's wrong--I'll go with SUN'S Natural Cycle FTW

BOT: I voted 3

Because climatologists pretend that temperature has never changed before?? I didn't say anything about SUVs, btw. Cars are only a part of CO2 emissions, they just happen to be overhyped.

how can human global warming be proven if warming occured with out humans effect--hence the SUV comment you completely missed the point on.

So warming and cooling that occured before the combustion engine's invention was nature but after all enviromental effects is 100% human's fault?

OF COURSE warming and cooling happens naturally. I'm telling you that we have a record for the past half a million years. This is how we know that the current global warming is anthropogenic. Do you really believe that despite the exactly correlation of CO2 with temperature, the increase in CO2 we have caused is insignificant?? Why do you think it's logical to think that because there are many causes of temperature that the one that we know is real and matches modeling is somehow inconsequential?

http://www.brighton73.freeserv...aleo/20000yearsbig.gif
Do you think this is a natural increase in CO2? What is it caused by? Do you think that despite what we know changing CO2 levels have done in the past, this time will be different?


Look at this: http://www.usgcrp.gov/usgcrp/images/Vostok.jpg

Notice that the Greeks were well within the 10,000 year notch on the graph. I don't know what climate advantage they had-- if there was one, it was probably caused by a short term undulation in the natural cycle.
Keep in mind that current CO2 is currently at 383ppm, vs the <290ppm level we were at a few hundred years ago. Also, look at how the insolation (radiation from the sun) follows almost exactly the historic CO2 and methane levels. The sun would have to be drastically changing to be used to explain away current climate change.

 

[BigJelly]

Originally posted by: antillean
http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/images/ssn_yearly.jpg

The sun hasn't changed much during the industrial revolution. I'm not a solar expert, but if that is how you determine solar radiation, it can't possibly be the cause of global warming. It would also be an amazing stretch to say that the warming correlated exactly with the industrial revolution's CO2 emissions is because of the sun or other natural processes. If you believe in odds like that, you should be buying lottery tickets every day.

Not sun spots total irradiance--energy emitted W/m^2

Notice anything?

Sun emitted less energy from 1950-1970 -- hence the fear of global cooling.

Sun emitted more energy from 1970-1992 -- hence the fear of global warming.

Ahh man ***** up our enviroment so much it's affecting the sun -- better build that bomb shelter ASAP

Even NASA is in on big oil's payroll 😛

Edited: corrected grammer

 

[ultimatebob]

I'm somewhere in between Camp 2 and Camp 3. Global Warming is real, but it's not going to be as big of a deal as everyone makes it out to be.

 

[BigJelly]

Originally posted by: antillean

Originally posted by: BigJelly

Originally posted by: antillean

Originally posted by: BigJelly

Originally posted by: antillean
1


There's a lot of ignorance in this thread. Human caused global warming is proven. You really can't dispute the correlation between CO2 and temperature in the past and the present. If you do, you probably don't realize how accurate the climate record is. We also know just about exactly how much CO2 humans have created because we know how much oil has been drilled, and how much coal has been burned. We also know the ecological effects of rising temperatures, and that a huge number of species will become extinct due to global warming.

so the warming that caused the ancient greeks to prosper and the middle age warming because of the suvs? Must have missed the part of greeks and their gas guzzelers in the Greek history class.

the global cooling from 1940s-1970s was how if humans cause global warming and co2 emissions increased?

I'll stick with earth's cycle--no wait that's wrong--I'll go with SUN'S Natural Cycle FTW

BOT: I voted 3

Because climatologists pretend that temperature has never changed before?? I didn't say anything about SUVs, btw. Cars are only a part of CO2 emissions, they just happen to be overhyped.

how can human global warming be proven if warming occured with out humans effect--hence the SUV comment you completely missed the point on.

So warming and cooling that occured before the combustion engine's invention was nature but after all enviromental effects is 100% human's fault?

OF COURSE warming and cooling happens naturally. I'm telling you that we have a record for the past half a million years. This is how we know that the current global warming is anthropogenic. Do you really believe that despite the exactly correlation of CO2 with temperature, the increase in CO2 we have caused is insignificant?? Why do you think it's logical to think that because there are many causes of temperature that the one that we know is real and matches modeling is somehow inconsequential?

http://www.brighton73.freeserv...aleo/20000yearsbig.gif
Do you think this is a natural increase in CO2? What is it caused by? Do you think that despite what we know changing CO2 levels have done in the past, this time will be different?

but you know its human caused because we added more CO2 when we don't know how much an effect CO2 has. Seeing that the sun has a larger inpact on earths temp as seen from the above post by me and NASA's conclusion of the sun's inpact on temp

I realize its a long shot that the big ball of h2 that prevents earth from being a frozen rock might have an impact on earth's average temperature fluxuations. Seeing that there is a correlation with the suns irradiance and earth's average temperature, I'm still going with the sun FTW.

 

[mugs]

My opinion is that I'm not a scientist, and if scientists can't agree then I really have no business reaching a conclusion.

It annoys me to no end that people's opinions on global warming almost invariably match their political party (democrats believe it happens and is caused by humans; republicans believe it does not happen or it does but is not caused by humans). That alone should tell you that the common man has no business reaching conclusions that scientists cannot reach.

 

[antillean]

Didn't realize there were more replies on this next page, so I just edited my post.

http://www.usgcrp.gov/usgcrp/images/Vostok.jpg

Yeah, the past CO2 levels are correlated with insolation. The current warming isn't. Can you come up with an explanation other than increased CO2 (which has positive feedback also, by the way)

 

[BigJelly]

Originally posted by: mugs
My opinion is that I'm not a scientist, and if scientists can't agree then I really have no business reaching a conclusion.

It annoys me to no end that people's opinions on global warming almost invariably match their political party (democrats believe it happens and is caused by humans; republicans believe it does not happen or it does but is not caused by humans). That alone should tell you that the common man has no business reaching conclusions that scientists cannot reach.

bingo and although I fall in line with your observation--republican that doesn't believe global warming is man made (not that it doesn't exist but that it's all man's fault)

I debate it off facts/science and try to look at the bigger picture--i.e. other affects of earth's temperature fluxuations and previous periods of warming and cooling to conclude that man's effect is slim to nil

But my conclusion is just that a conclusion not a fact; whereas people that are invested politically call their conclusion a fact.

 

[antillean]

Originally posted by: mugs
My opinion is that I'm not a scientist, and if scientists can't agree then I really have no business reaching a conclusion.

It annoys me to no end that people's opinions on global warming almost invariably match their political party (democrats believe it happens and is caused by humans; republicans believe it does not happen or it does but is not caused by humans). That alone should tell you that the common man has no business reaching conclusions that scientists cannot reach.

Keep in mind that people's opinions on evolution also almost invariable match their political party, yet I'm sure everyone in this thread can agree that evolution is fact.

 

[antillean]

Originally posted by: BigJelly

Originally posted by: mugs
My opinion is that I'm not a scientist, and if scientists can't agree then I really have no business reaching a conclusion.

It annoys me to no end that people's opinions on global warming almost invariably match their political party (democrats believe it happens and is caused by humans; republicans believe it does not happen or it does but is not caused by humans). That alone should tell you that the common man has no business reaching conclusions that scientists cannot reach.

bingo and although I fall in line with your observation--republican that doesn't believe global warming is man made (not that it doesn't exist but that it's all man's fault)

I debate it off facts/science and try to look at the bigger picture--i.e. other affects of earth's temperature fluxuations and previous periods of warming and cooling to conclude that man's effect is slim to nil

But my conclusion is just that a conclusion not a fact; whereas people that are invested politically call their conclusion a fact.

It's not caused by the sun or the earth's orbit. What explanation do you have other than the 1/3 increase in CO2 caused by humans?

 

[TehMac]

Originally posted by: eits
my stance: anyone who thinks global warming (human-caused) is fake or isn't real is an imbecile.

My stance: anyone who thinks global warming (human cause) isn't fake or unreal is an imbecile.

🙂

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: antillean

Have you looked at the graphs? Temperatures varied in the past because of cycles we understand like the Milankovitch cycle and solar cycles. We have an excellent record for the past few hundred thousand years from ice cores and ocean floor cores. The sequence of ice ages during that time follows what we would expect. Current anthropogenic global warming follows what we would expect from the drastic increase in CO2. We all know natural variations occur, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be worried about the huge change that we KNOW we are causing.
That's like saying, because cars normally make noise on the highway, you shouldn't worry if it sounds like your transmission just grenaded and you're about to die.

The graphs are B.S... everybody knows that God created the earth only 6000 years ago.

Duh.