I'll get one when it is integrated into the mb. Should happen quite quickly if they catch on. :beer:
QFT.. Too early for me too.. It's not exclusively a matter of high cost (when you pay some much for a high end gpu at least once a year this shouldn't be an issue) more like a stupid investment right now..
Visual effects only... seems to me gamers have proven not only willing but eager for hardware that gives them more in that department. Guys who just plopped $300+ on a GPU are willing to do it again in 6-12 months for incremental advances in textures, frame rates. Give them a $100-200 hardware option to add many new facets to the visual experience and one that should be good for say 3 years, and I see many gamers adopting once they've laid eyes on it. That's placing zero value on all the other things that could be enabled. After the uber-gamers get it, the power gamers then the regular gamers will get it too as word spreads, competition ramps up and prices come down.
I don't think the idea of seeding a physical event is getting across though. Think of it as one of those elaborate toppling dominoes setups. Can do some pretty intricate and large things, and all you have to do is get it started. The bandwidth would only be knocking over the first domino, physics processing handles the inevitable outcome in real-time, at the same pace for everyone. The seed, setup, whatever would be the same on everyone's system and map-based, so the outcome would be the same. Alternately it could be a single random numeric variable generated at the time of the event and sent along with the packet. How does an area of effect weapon have the bandwidth to send out every possible coordinate it affects? It doesn't. You just have to send the starting point of the blast, and let each machine take care of the rest. Of course there's lag, but that applies for moving and firing a weapon too. The "start event" packet is sent, and each player's machine handles the rest. This setup however would require every system to have physics processing, which will be the case soon enough in one form or another. Guess having lived through some people saying "math-coprocessors/ sound cards/ 4MB of ram/ $200 graphics cards/ CD Roms will never catch on" has given me a different perspective.
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For every item you say "caught on" there's at least 10X as many that didn't. Sure you can dig out your Jaz drive and use it but it certainly doesn't make much sense anymore.
Accurate multiplayer physics can't be a single packet event either. There's simply too much going on. Say at one point we have a vehicle under a physics cascade, yet on another players computer they're 20 milliseconds behind, arguably a very low latency, What happens then? Player one gets the vehicle buried by the cascade, for player two the vehicle keeps moving? It's not going to happen, not at least on todays network technolgy.
Here are the limits...
1). No multiplayer support beyond particle effects.
2). No server support for multiplayer, not a big deal because the #1 isn't happening.
Aside from that maybe it's a viable solution. I'd personally say that if it's not a multiplayer killer application then it's DOA. But we need more professional reviews of the actual product, not technical speculations like this.
Accurate multiplayer physics can't be a single packet event either. There's simply too much going on. Say at one point we have a vehicle under a physics cascade, yet on another players computer they're 20 milliseconds behind, arguably a very low latency, What happens then? Player one gets the vehicle buried by the cascade, for player two the vehicle keeps moving? It's not going to happen, not at least on todays network technolgy.
Here are the limits...
1). No multiplayer support beyond particle effects.
2). No server support for multiplayer, not a big deal because the #1 isn't happening.
Aside from that maybe it's a viable solution. I'd personally say that if it's not a multiplayer killer application then it's DOA. But we need more professional reviews of the actual product, not technical speculations like this.
Yes I would also guess that I will never get one. These things will have to integrate to be successfull, they are just selling the idea of their patented method at this time. To be successful games have to be produced that use these for more than pretty effects. Judging by the size of these prototypes, the gpu would be a tight squeeze so is why I go for the mb. :beer:
I see what you're saying, but that brings up a number of other issues, such as:
1. What happens when you have a slow machine and a fast machine running the same triggered event (remember the events have to be synchronized)
2. What if one machine has a PPU and one doesnt
3. How would a dedicated PPU make a noticeable difference when it's a pre-defined event and can be run as a shader on the gpu, given that it only affects the visual aspect of the game
Guys,, why is it that the cpu can only handle 30-40 physics objects while this thing can do like "30000"
is the card actually 1000 faster than a normal cpu? why not just make a software that can run on a cheapo computer and have that thing supply the physics data?
I TELL U answer to both.. No it's not faster,, and 2 they're assholes who just want me to buy more stuff. like seriously, first it's graphics "accelerator cards" then its SOUND cards,, Then RAM,, wtf was that about,, now PHYSICS accelerators... soon they're gonna make DVD accelerator cards that's only function is to make the tray come out faster...
I'm really pissed off at this. they're just dividing up these computing tasks so they can sell more stuff at once. and u know the sadest part is that i'm gonna have to buy it.. GRRRRRR. Same deal with dual core, instead of making faster processors, they just glued 2 togther so they can sell u 2 processors at one time. Less development cost, excuse to make more money.. I hate this,,, Now i'm gonna go save money to buy this physx crap...!!!!
is the card actually 1000 faster than a normal cpu? why not just make a software that can run on a cheapo computer and have that thing supply the physics data?
I TELL U answer to both.. No it's not faster,, and 2 they're assholes who just want me to buy more stuff. like seriously, first it's graphics "accelerator cards" then its SOUND cards,, Then RAM,, wtf was that about,, now PHYSICS accelerators... soon they're gonna make DVD accelerator cards that's only function is to make the tray come out faster...
I'm really pissed off at this. they're just dividing up these computing tasks so they can sell more stuff at once. and u know the sadest part is that i'm gonna have to buy it.. GRRRRRR. Same deal with dual core, instead of making faster processors, they just glued 2 togther so they can sell u 2 processors at one time. Less development cost, excuse to make more money.. I hate this,,, Now i'm gonna go save money to buy this physx crap...!!!!
I generally work out costs thusly:
Screen = ~ £500
CPU = ~ £250
GPU = ~ £250
M/B = ~ £125
Case+PSU = ~ £125
HD = ~ £62.50
Speakers = ~ £62.50
Soundcard = ~ £62.50
by this rational, i would probably be happy to pay ~ £125 for a PPU
Screen = ~ £500
CPU = ~ £250
GPU = ~ £250
M/B = ~ £125
Case+PSU = ~ £125
HD = ~ £62.50
Speakers = ~ £62.50
Soundcard = ~ £62.50
by this rational, i would probably be happy to pay ~ £125 for a PPU
They did make MPEG2 accelorator cards... aka decoder cards... Hollywood Series from sigma designs comes to mind.... I had one in my really old system because I like to multitask... an MPEG4 H264 decoder/accelorator chip would be nice for a mini-ITX system serving as a Home Theater Terminal... its actually what am waiting for before I build mine....
Anyways back to physic cards, I'd rather see it become part of the GPU(integrated PPU/GPU) then a seperate card, but in the interim I would pay $50-100 for it. I listen to music more then I play games, so I would pay $100-150+ for a sound card. With the ****** speakers and sound cards people use on their machines sometimes I wonder why anyone is worrying about physic immersion...
peepz all gotz differentz tastez. and u only get good emmersion with uber speakers, if u just got audigy zs with my logitech it's distinct surround yes, but no emmersion. Uber speakers = uber price.
Besides, motion sensor onscreen or radar is much more accurate than surround sound.
This is the single, least educated thing i have read about computing in a very long time.
This is right up there with daily comments like " i need to get more memory for storage " and "my computer is only 4 years old and its still fast because i upgraded it 2 years ago"
Price isn't near a big a concern as performance. I still remember the total transformation of my gaming experience when I bought a 3Dfx VoodDoo 2 12MB card. It wasn't just a better card, it total changed the gaming experience.
I want something like that with a physics card. And that is going to be VERY had to do...
I want something like that with a physics card. And that is going to be VERY had to do...
It is very educated. It breaks down the nonsense that corporate assho*es want you to believe into the raw components of their chicanery. Yet because there is a monopoly on production, one can't make their own computer parts, we're forced to oblige. You're the one that is too quick to judge what I've said. Granted I was typing with aim speech so it probably appears crude.
So you honestly believe that we havent reached a clockspeed ceiling, and both of the corporate assholes, along with the entire microengineering community, are "fooling us" into buying parrallel processors.
You do realize that a CPU cant do Video, Physics, or sound anywhere near the complexity levels that these dedicated cards do, right?
Easy explanation: 2.7ghz cpu does instructions in order, 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 etc...
GPUs, and PPUs do them IN PARRALLEL.
Which means:
GPU: (with 24 pipelines)
1+1+1+1
1+1+1+1
1+1+1+1
1+1+1+1
1+1+1+1
1+1+1+1
1+1+1+1
1+1+1+1
1+1+1+1
1+1+1+1
1+1+1+1
1+1+1+1
1+1+1+1
1+1+1+1
1+1+1+1
1+1+1+1
1+1+1+1
1+1+1+1
1+1+1+1
1+1+1+1
1+1+1+1
1+1+1+1
1+1+1+1
1+1+1+1
Which one do you think is going to finish 1st?
You have no idea what youre talking about, and you look foolish to those who do.
<== EE student, like many on these boards.
The reason CPUs cant be clocked up more is because the MATERIALS SCIENCE OF HUMANITY HASNT COME UP WITH ANYTHING BETTER THAN SILICON YET.
Edit: Also, LOL are your ram comment.
WOWOWO! I didn't say I have any degrees, nor did I say I knew the science or math. All Ive said is that what the corporate machine is doing is done in the biggest portion to get our money. I also didn't say there is anything wrong with it except that I'm forced to dangle on their chain. It makes no difference in my perspective how much math/science you know. They could've integrated everything together, but no they're going to sell us multiple things to get more money.
You're wrapped up in the fact that you think you are smarter than everyone else, and you feel compelled to prove it. Even though it doesn't apply to the point Im making
It does apply, because this is the only way they can get faster right now, specialization and greater parrallelism.
If you wanted it all integrated on one chip, all or integrated on one board, it cost MORE than it does now, because it would add too many layers to the motherboard PCB, and create HUGE chips that would not only cost a lot to create, but have extremely low yields (many chips would be faulty and thrown away).
I dont call people out on these boards usually, but you really need to understand whats going on before you say the "corporate machine is trying to screw us all by releasing a physics card".
Do you think its even possible to have things like a GPU and PPU, both with very different memory subsystems, and multiple controllers (read: a sh!t ton of traces) as well as system memory and CPU/s? youre talking a 30 layer motherboard, if not more.
Not to mention the lack of elegance, you could no longer upgrade.
It hasnt been done because its not cost effective, this method would indeed cost substantially more.
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