Poll: Was BF2 too bugged to be released?

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
8,392
1
0
My personal feeling is that the game had a number of bugs that were severe enough that EA and Dice really should not have released it. I voted the third option, though I could easily justify classifying it as simply unacceptable. The reason I say that is some of the problems with the game (such as shader cache corruption, problems changing display types, etc) are way beyond the average user's ability to troubleshoot and correct.

For instance, most of us here know that if the game crashes to the desktop (sans error message, of course) as soon as we get into a game, we probably have a corrupt shader cache. We know to go delete the cache, let it rebuild, and then enter the game. Joe User doesn't even know how to say 'cache'.

Other problems are far more elusive. Did you buy the recommended Audigy 2 card so you could experience Battlefield 2 in all of its EAX glory? Bummer, because despite being the recommended card (until the X-Fi came out), it actually offers nothing more than your crappy onboard sound does due to problems in either Dice's code, Creative's driver, or both (they're actually not sure what the problem is, even several months after the release).

Playing on anything less than an OC96? Well, then I'd stay away from flying fully loaded choppers, standing on our near ledges, or confronting enemies face to face, because such situations are too stressful for the netcode and you'll be poised to have yourself repositioned by the server right into the side of a building or cratered to the pavement.

Do you intend to shoot people? Well, before doing so I recommend that you stop, put your gun down, and kindly ask your target which team they're on, because you certainly can't rely on the game or even the scoreboard to tell you.

Did you initially have aspirations of remapping your 'Alt' or 'Ctrl' keys? Sorry, that's an unsupported feature.

Did the game servers on which you planned to play have the ability to dynamically add memory hardware as the game leaks 16k by the second?

Want to start a clan? Join a clan? Kiss all of your hardearned stats goodbye, as you cannot change your name.

When the game curls up its toes and dies on you, would you like to see an error message? Error messages are for sissies... go play UT or Counter-Strike, Nancy.

Would you like to use the browser to find favorites, buddies, or apply filters? Sorry, BF2 isn't in the server browser business.

Have you switched from a CRT to an LCD to experience BF2 in widescreen? Well you're screwed, because a) the game will crash on you now because the game cannot handle switching display types without your own manual intervention, and b) there's no widescreen support.



This is by no means an extensive list of the problems, and before you flame me, I do realize that two of these problems were addressed in the patch(es). My point here is that the game wasn't remotely ready to be released and is far from user-friendly.

I think it's a shame that such a brilliant game was marred by such a terrible release, and I'm quite simply just getting pissed that EA continues to pull this kind of crap, release after release, with total impunity. Remember back to BF1942's release... it was just as bad as BF2, and only goes to show that it's becoming totally acceptable to release and sell unstable code so profits can be realized and reported a quarter or two earlier. Not to jump on the bash EA bandwagon, but it seems to me that they have absolutely no qualms about this kind of practice. It's practically standard operating procedure.
 

M0RPH

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,302
1
0
You really should have had an option like "There were some bugs but not any more than normal for a game of this type". Because you're just setting up the people who choose "What bugs?" to be ridiculed. Of course there are bugs... there is no game ever released that is bug-free.

Edit: I choose "what bugs?" anyways because my personal experience with the game has been nearly trouble-free.
 
Jun 14, 2003
10,442
0
0
Originally posted by: jbourne77
My personal feeling is that the game had a number of bugs that were severe enough that EA and Dice really should not have released it. I voted the third option, though I could easily justify classifying it as simply unacceptable. The reason I say that is some of the problems with the game (such as shader cache corruption, problems changing display types, etc) are way beyond the average user's ability to troubleshoot and correct.

For instance, most of us here know that if the game crashes to the desktop (sans error message, of course) as soon as we get into a game, we probably have a corrupt shader cache. We know to go delete the cache, let it rebuild, and then enter the game. Joe User doesn't even know how to say 'cache'.

Other problems are far more elusive. Did you buy the recommended Audigy 2 card so you could experience Battlefield 2 in all of its EAX glory? Bummer, because despite being the recommended card (until the X-Fi came out), it actually offers nothing more than your crappy onboard sound does due to problems in either Dice's code, Creative's driver, or both (they're actually not sure what the problem is, even several months after the release).

Playing on anything less than an OC96? Well, then I'd stay away from flying fully loaded choppers, standing on our near ledges, or confronting enemies face to face, because such situations are too stressful for the netcode and you'll be poised to have yourself repositioned by the server right into the side of a building or cratered to the pavement.

Do you intend to shoot people? Well, before doing so I recommend that you stop, put your gun down, and kindly ask your target which team they're on, because you certainly can't rely on the game or even the scoreboard to tell you.

Did you initially have aspirations of remapping your 'Alt' or 'Ctrl' keys? Sorry, that's an unsupported feature.

Did the game servers on which you planned to play have the ability to dynamically add memory hardware as the game leaks 16k by the second?

Want to start a clan? Join a clan? Kiss all of your hardearned stats goodbye, as you cannot change your name.

When the game curls up its toes and dies on you, would you like to see an error message? Error messages are for sissies... go play UT or Counter-Strike, Nancy.

Would you like to use the browser to find favorites, buddies, or apply filters? Sorry, BF2 isn't in the server browser business.

Have you switched from a CRT to an LCD to experience BF2 in widescreen? Well you're screwed, because a) the game will crash on you now because the game cannot handle switching display types without your own manual intervention, and b) there's no widescreen support.



This is by no means an extensive list of the problems, and before you flame me, I do realize that two of these problems were addressed in the patch(es). My point here is that the game wasn't remotely ready to be released and is far from user-friendly.

I think it's a shame that such a brilliant game was marred by such a terrible release, and I'm quite simply just getting pissed that EA continues to pull this kind of crap, release after release, with total impunity. Remember back to BF1942's release... it was just as bad as BF2, and only goes to show that it's becoming totally acceptable to release and sell unstable code so profits can be realized and reported a quarter or two earlier. Not to jump on the bash EA bandwagon, but it seems to me that they have absolutely no qualms about this kind of practice. It's practically standard operating procedure.

definately this one

theres been numerous times where i could of sworn the person i was shooting HAD ENEMY CLOTHING on...heck they even had a moustach. i shot them, they died, i got punished for a TK.

is this a game thing or are people switching teams quickly or something?

and then theres the accuracy...or rather lack of it. it took me 4 head shots with the M95 (a 50 cal weapon) to kill one man who was no more than 20yds from me

heh an yes i joined a clan, restarted then realised joining this clan was a bad idea since theyre all american and im english so im never around when they are..and now i cant change
 

Spacecomber

Senior member
Apr 21, 2000
268
0
0
Was BF2 released somewhat prematurely and with some bugs? Yes. I think that the release of this game was tied to the unveiling of the nvidia 7800GTX; so, the developers had a fixed deadline that they couldn't do anything about.

Were these bugs such that I would consider them to be show-stoppers or inordiantely worse than what other games are released with these days? No, not really. The proof of this is in the number of players who are currently enjoying the game.

Can we expect DICE to continue to iron out the bugs? I think so. This game series is too big a success to just drop work on it. They would love to sell some expansion packs for it as well. So, I'd be surprised if they didn't continue to improve this game over time.
 

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
8,392
1
0
You are correct, M0RPH. I really did try to make the poll fair and without bias, but the option you described should in fact be up there. My goal was to get an honest sampling of what people thought, so I've added that option.

But again, I don't disagree that "of course there are bugs... no game is ever released that is bug-free". I don't think I've once, in this thread or the other, said that the game should have been released bug-free. I'm talking about the severity of the bugs. My opinion is that we haven't even begun to scratch the surface of the game's "normal" bugs because we're so bogged down in things like cache corruption, CTD's, and not knowing if the person in front of you is an enemy or a teammate.

An acceptable bug, in my opinion, would be things that are much more minor OR could have been somewhat elusive in testing. It's simply not plausible that the bugs described above were not discovered in testing... either that, or the testing was terribly inadequate. Either way...

Getting killed so easily by a boat that was moving at a snail's pace is what I would consider a "normal" bug. That's something that could easily fall through the cracks in testing or be forgotten about. However, standing on the ledge of a building and then having the server reposition you 10 feet forward, thus killing you, is unacceptable... especially when a similar event takes place with a fully loaded chopper. Hit detection that doesn't recognize headshots is also unacceptable. I'm not here to get into a battle with you over whether or not the Sniper class is an admirable one, but if a sniper is going to take the 5 seconds needed to line up a shot and wait until there is zero movement on the part of him AND the enemy, his headshot between the eyes had better yield results... not just simply fly through the target.

People who spent $200 on an Audigy 2 card to experience EAX, when it was the recommended card for the game, deserve results, too.

So while you might be up to your ears in fun with the game, you need to come to terms with the fact that not everyone is having such a trouble-free experience, and game-stopping bugs DO exist for many people. Remember, not everyone experiences the game the exact same way you do.

For those of you scratching your head as to where our discussion is coming from: http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=33&threadid=1681913&enterthread=y

Regarding the C4 bug that you asked about in the other thread, Morph: there are actually two. I've not experienced the second one, though I've heard a lot about it (note that I'm not insisting it doesn't exist just because I personally have not had the problem). The one that I've been plagued with is that when I pull out the detonator and push the button (usually at a pretty critical moment), the game will switch me back to the C4 and my explosives never detonate. This usually results in a tank getting off scott-free and me eating a fairly large shell from said tank. The other bug with the C4, the one I haven't experienced, is basically the same thing in reverse. From what people have described, they basically end up blowing themselves to pieces as they try to lay another pack of C4. You have no idea how horribly aggravating these two bugs are for people. I've all but stopped playing the Spec Ops class because of it. A shame, considering that's what I was most looking forward to when I bought the game in the first place. When I was using the class, I was experiecing the bug about 10% of the time, give or take.

I know the knee-jerk reaction is to point to packet loss, bad servers, etc... but I'd like to think we're above that garbage here. I wouldn't be complaining about things if I wasn't experiencing success in all of my other games, and I think the same goes for the majority of the other players who are experiencing these and other problems. Besides, if we can't trust EA's own servers to meet or exceed the requirements, then I think we have an entirely different set of problems, don't you think ;) .
 

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
8,392
1
0
Originally posted by: Spacecomber
Were these bugs such that I would consider them to be show-stoppers or inordiantely worse than what other games are released with these days? No, not really. The proof of this is in the number of players who are currently enjoying the game.

I don't know that the proof is as iron-clad as you think. I think that the number of the people playing the game is simply just a testament to the brilliant gameplay itself and lack of selection. That doesn't automatically translate into acceptability. People are simply putting up with it because the game itself is GOOD... heck, it's DAMN GOOD... but I don't think that means that it was acceptable to release. It doesn't mean that a disservice (sp?) wasn't done to them by releasing it in the condition it was in.

And you're probably right about the 7800... but I think that's the result of devs and publishers making poor decisions. Maybe that was the original plan, but someone should have stood up and said "look, I know this was the plan, but we're simply not even close to ready".
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,705
6,261
126
It should not have been released in it's current state(some months after it was released). The first few weeks (until the first patch) after it was released I couldn't even setup an account!

Once the Patch came out I could finally setup an account and played it for a week, but the "verifying client data" was so slow I couldn't stand to play more than a couple Map changes ata a time. Eventually I said "screw it!" and went back the CS:S. Now I'm waiting for the next patch.

What really pisses me off is that amidst all these problems EA just carries on like nothings amiss. Sure, they announced a Patch then announced the Patch's delay, but right in the middle of it their biggest effort has been to promote the next friggin add-on to it! :|

Fix the god damn game first schmucks! :| :|
 

Pr0d1gy

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2005
7,774
0
76
I've found most of the problems to be on my end, be it my PC or conflicting software problems.
 

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
8,392
1
0
Originally posted by: Pr0d1gy
I've found most of the problems to be on my end, be it my PC or conflicting software problems.

I've found most of my problems to be already documented by EA and unresolved.