Poll: Those who had a quality PUBLIC SCHOOL Education Please vote here.

Page 5 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Rio Rebel

Administrator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,194
0
0
Dabanshee,

What kind of pure, unadulterated moron would think he could visit a country TWICE and tell those who live there what their private school system is like?

You are wrong about the entrance exams - most private schools don't have them.

Of course, I may be wrong...I was born here, but you've VISITED TWICE!

Idiot.
 

hans007

Lifer
Feb 1, 2000
20,212
18
81
i went to a public school. I'd say i'm a pretty smart kid, but i really never paid attention to class. I guess if you are a kid who actually WANTS to learn, you'll learn on your own. I mean they aren't teaching rocket science in grade school. I got really high test scores, but i didnt have the best grades in the world, but i'm still at UCLA. so public schools i'd say are very good considering how dumb some kids are. I mean you aren't gonna make a dumb kid smart, or a smart kid dumb, its all about the kid not the school
 

Ladi

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2000
2,084
0
0
It's been a while since i've posted in OT, but...

I'm a product of public schools (upstate NY, central NJ, and now Rutgers) and I seem to be doing just fine: decent grades, looking at early graduation with multiple degrees, and law school. One of the best things my parents ever did for me was living in places that guaranteed that I would go to good public schools. They did their research before every move we've made and found schools that consistently tested high and had good reputations. In some ways, it was certainly more than the sacrifice that parents who sent their kids to private schools made; my parents paid for my education not only in ridiculous property taxes, but in the mortgage. The schools weren't the key, however...making me study and do my homework or take the consequences if I didn't was. My parents also made me do lots of &quot;extra&quot; things -- summer reading clubs, writing essays or papers each summer on &quot;fun&quot; topics, math tutoring, advanced classes, music lessons. I also have them and my sister to thank for helping me fight my way into challenging classes (I skipped 9th grade english, for example, and my mother got my guidance counselor from my old h.s. to track down _retired_ teachers over summer break so I could get the recommendations to get into all honors classes at my new h.s.). Also, just because I went to public school doesn't mean I missed out on extra-curriculars either...my high school had dozens of clubs, and there were many community service organizations unaffiliated with school that I could join.

I've known plenty of people who went to private schools (heck, I'm dating one now), and I would certainly say that I had no worse education than any of them and maybe better than some of them.

Take some pride in public education...it's not a totally hopeless system.

~Ladi
 

TAsunder

Senior member
Oct 6, 2000
287
0
0
Ok let me reiterate the significance of the voucher studies.. because there seems to be a lack of comprehension on why it is significant to this discussion:

As already pointed out, comparing average scores of all students in public vs private schools is highly unscientific, because private schools are more selective about their students and because of socioeconomic standards.

More realistic: take the same kids or at least similar kids and compare their individual performances in private vs public schools. This is basically what the voucher studies have done, because the question is one of whether the vouchers are giving the same kids a better education. In general, the answer is no. There are occasional things that would seem to indicate that private schools have a slight edge, but in general the difference is not significant.

I think, however, there is definitely something to be said for a good environment. Regarldess of whether or not the education would be better, I probably would be less self conscious if I had gone to a private school where dope-fiend athletes weren't allowed to hang out at school entances and harrass students while two kids were fighting elsewhere and gathering attention from school officials.

Regardless, I don't think it is valid to say that public education quality is significantly worse because of the findings of the NEA (which have been backed up by other studies). We can show all kinds of statistics saying that a decent private college &quot;Teaches&quot; better than a public one because the average students score higher on the ACT, but this has a severe logical flaw since the students are significantly different.

There have been studies which provide extremely convincing evidence of ways of educating children in the current public school system that greatly improve the quality of education, far more in fact than private schools. One such program takes a different approach to &quot;Remedial&quot; learning, wherein instead of going slower, it goes faster and sets a goal for when these same kids will be at the same level as their peers. The studies of this methodlogy have shown GREATLY improved test scores for these kids.

Another, well-known, method of increasing quality and interest of education is reducing class sizes.

Regardless of how much it costs per student, private schools typically charge more for education when all is said and done under the voucher system. This means that in a way, it is actually more expensive per student. This is after factoring in costs of books, supplies, and tuition itself.
 
Oct 19, 2000
17,860
4
81
I like to think that I'm a good product of public schooling. I made great grades, and consider myself to be rather smart. I can learn anything just as well as anyone else if I was to put my mind to it, and I really beleive that.
 

Impact55

Platinum Member
Feb 16, 2000
2,189
3
0

tagej,


<< Pennstate says the public schools need more money. BS. Throwing more money at the system does nothing. I don't have the time to dig up the links now (I'll post some later), but the last time I checked the public school system spent twice as much for each student as the private schools. Why? Because they have to spend a ton of money on a huge bureacracy, instead of spending it on the students. They have to spend it on fighting lawsuits on prayer at football games and other such crap. They have to spend it on cops to patrol the hallways, and metal detectors at the doors. >>



WRONG. I'm not saying that public schools are all rundown and dirty, however I know for a fact that our school could use more money for our new school that we are building behind the school we are currently in. Inner city schools could use this money even more drastically, due to the outrageous scenes they are forced to learn in. Have you ever been in an inner city school for a day? I don't like arguing with gold spoon-fed people, but I will do what I can to help provide a sense of reality.


Rio Rebel,


<< I'd like to know how you know that for a FACT. Have you visited a statistically significant random sample, or does the term &quot;private school&quot; logically imply &quot;censorship&quot;? >>



I went to a private school for most of elementary, and yes I have a LOT of friends that go to private schools and they agree with me. No, I am not making assumptions and simply combining &quot;censorship&quot; with &quot;private school&quot;, I'm not tagej am I?
 

Impact55

Platinum Member
Feb 16, 2000
2,189
3
0
Rio Rebel,


<< You are wrong about the entrance exams - most private schools don't have them >>



Well we goofed up again! :( Every New York private school I have heard of, or Oklahoma private school has an entrance exam, and if you ask people that go to them in other parts of the country they will agree with me for the most part. I don't disagree that entrance exams are wrong, if your paying for your education you deserve to be with your peers, I would be a hypocrite for saying different considering I go to a magnet school. I just do not agree with your assumptions that most of the private schools don't have them... please do not assume.
 

Impact55

Platinum Member
Feb 16, 2000
2,189
3
0
tagej


<< Impact55: Oh ok, so that's the missing link we've been looking for. You've solved it! We can easily measure academic performance and standards just by looking at who can take C++ classes! Whoohoo. >>


I'm simply stating that my school has C++ classes and I have yet to learn of a private school with an educated C++ teacher, or a C++ course for that.
We also have far many Advanced Placement courses and an I.B. program which is very superior to your &quot;honors&quot; classes. BS, those shouldn't even be weighted.
 

Rio Rebel

Administrator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,194
0
0
Impact,

Your personal experience in a private school does not give you justifiable evidence to make a sweeping general statement about them and refer to it as a &quot;fact&quot;...not even if we consider that you have &quot;many friends who went to them&quot; as well.

As to the entrance exams, your experience indicates that most have them, mine does not. I don't know who's right there. Maybe we should just defer to Dabanshee, because after all, he's visited here TWICE. lol.

I'm not trying to be nitpicky or sarcastic (okay, maybe a little sarcastic). My point is that no matter how much time and experience you've had in one private school, a group of private schools, or even all the private schools in your state - that's not enough to assume you can make general statements and present them as &quot;fact&quot;.

I could have attended 100 times as many schools as you, and determined that all private schools are Catholic. My justification would be far stronger than yours...but I wouldn't be correct, would I?
 

Impact55

Platinum Member
Feb 16, 2000
2,189
3
0
Rio Rebel,


<< Your personal experience in a private school does not give you justifiable evidence to make a sweeping general statement about them and refer to it as a &quot;fact&quot;...not even if we consider that you have &quot;many friends who went to them&quot; as well. >>


Yes it does give justifiable evidence for my surrounding area, simply because I know what they are like. However, I'm not going to assume things about other schools.
 

Impact55

Platinum Member
Feb 16, 2000
2,189
3
0
Rio Rebel,


<< My point is that no matter how much time and experience you've had in one private school, a group of private schools, or even all the private schools in your state - that's not enough to assume you can make general statements and present them as &quot;fact&quot;. >>


I agree it is not a fact, but it is more &quot;true&quot; than an opinion. My best friend goes to a catholic school, I play for a private Ice Hockey team and have to deal with these kind of discussions all the time. Like I said, I also have numerous other friends from childhood, Ice hockey camps, parents, etc.